Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

You're frustrated because you can't grasp that there's another way to see the scriptures that does not make those scriptures untrue.
At some moment the light will go on and you will see that.
I'm not saying the light will go on and you will agree with it. I'm just saying, if you let it, you'll suddenly see that what I'm saying is another way to see the scriptures that you never saw before but which does not make those scriptures untrue. Right now you are convinced there is no other way to understand the scriptures.

You are joking right?

Frustration stems from your incessant "don't stop believing or you will loose salvation" meaningless mantra.

No light can possibly come "on" when something is unbiblical... nope, nope, nope.

 

[OneOfHis]

You're frustrated because you can't grasp that there's another way to see the scriptures that does not make those scriptures untrue.
At some moment the light will go on and you will see that.
I'm not saying the light will go on and you will agree with it. I'm just saying, if you let it, you'll suddenly see that what I'm saying is another way to see the scriptures that you never saw before but which does not make those scriptures untrue. Right now you are convinced there is no other way to understand the scriptures.

Your silly baiting won't work in me.😏

 

[OneOfHis]

What is it about the promises being for the believing only that you disagree with?

I disagree with your belief that even one of God's born again child will ever be in the lake of fire.

 

[OneOfHis]

You are joking right?

Frustration stems from your incessant "don't stop believing or you will loose salvation" meaningless mantra.

No light can possibly come "on" when something is unbiblical... nope, nope, nope.

I think he/she wants an emotional response.🤔

Fact of the matter still remains. Any who is born of God, God promised to them that He will not blot their name out.

 

[blue_ladybug]

You are joking right?

Frustration stems from your incessant "don't stop believing or you will loose salvation" meaningless mantra.

No light can possibly come "on" when something is unbiblical... nope, nope, nope.

 

[EleventhHour]

View attachment 212476 View attachment 212477 View attachment 212478

Perfect ... LOL

 

[EleventhHour]

I disagree with your belief that even one of God's born again child will ever be in the lake of fire.

I am glad you disagree and are a member of the "OSAS cult" according to @Kolistus which is good for sure, but it contradicts God.

That is a big problem!

 

[Judges1318]

I disagree with your belief that even one of God's born again child will ever be in the lake of fire.

That's not my belief.
Born again people don't go to the lake of fire.
That place is for never-believers, fake believers, and former believers, not for born again believing people.

 

[Judges1318]

Any who is born of God, God promised to them that He will not blot their name out.

He promised that believing people will not have their names blotted out.
The promise is not for never-believers, fake believers, and former believers.
The promise is for the believing.

How is a never-believer, fake believer, or a former believer somehow a born again person that the promises should apply to them?

 

[OneOfHis]

That's not my belief.
Born again people don't go to the lake of fire.
That place is for never-believers, fake believers, and former believers, not for born again believing people.

All those who are born again, will be seen come judgement as spotless.

A "former believer" would have never been saved because the "faith" they professed was never a saving faith and would only appear to be a "former believer" before man and before God they were always in unbelief having no trust, confidence, fidelity in Christ.



You can never have been redeemed at any point by Jesus, then face judgement without His righteousness.

It is a gift that can/will not be returned or taken back.

 

[EleventhHour]

He promised that believing people will not have their names blotted out.
The promise is not for never-believers, fake believers, and former believers.
The promise is for the believing.

How is a never-believer, fake believer, or a former believer somehow a born again person that the promises should apply to them?

No such thing as former believer...
A believer is always a believer because the righteousness of Christ is imputed to the believer
Cannot be undone... it is an eternal status outside of time.

 

[VCO]

Crown not crowns in respect to the context of 1 Cor 9. and that Crown that he speaks of is the partaking of the Gospel.

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Paul is doing something for the Gospel's sake, HE SAYS, "I DO that he might be a partaker THEREOF, of it with you.

That is what it says. Then he proceeds IN CONTEXT to compare this doing for the Gospel's sake to a race.

He says

1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

As we can see Paul relates this DOING something for the Gospel SAKE to RUNNING in a race that you might receive The prize. HE IS STILL TALKING ABOUT partaking of the Gospel, obtaining salvation. He then exhorts that they run that they may obtain. THE CONTEXT IS THE GOSPEL, THIS IS THE PRIZE they are running to obtain ACCORDING TO the CONTEXT and sentence structure.

GOD through Paul continues.

1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Paul compares running to obtain the prize, TO BEING TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS. Then DESCRIBES the prize, the GOSPEL AS AN INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

He continues

1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly; not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:


Paul says, "I therefore so run". HOW SO? Not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly;not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But as one that is striving for mastery that he obtain the prize, the Gospel, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED).

So now GOD through Paul describes this not running AIMLESSLY BEATING THE AIR, as one who is striving for mastery, being temperate in all thing, keeping his body, and bringing it into subjection. THEN HE STATES WHY he is doing it. He says, "lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED)."

A castaway, rejected, a reprobate. Not to partake of the Gospel, the PRIZE, THE INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

Our Lord ans savior does not stop there though HE CONTINUES WITH THE Same CONTEXT IN THE NEXT CHAPTER. He starts the NEXT CHAPTER WITH THE WORD "MOREOVER". SO let's take a look shall we?

1Cor 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Cor 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Cor 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Cor 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Cor 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Cor 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Cor 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Cor 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Cor 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

That Verse in 1 Cor. 9:23 is a confusing translation at best.

Here is a Better One:

1 Corinthians 9:23 (HCSB)
23 Now I do all this because of the gospel, so I may become a partner in its benefits.

Benefits are something after you have responded to the Gospel.
The Benefits of BELIEVING THE TRUTH, is Being Sealed by the Holy Spirit, and having HIM IN OUR HEARTS as a Guarantee of our Inheritance, AND the Joy of seeing other respond to the Gospel of Truth.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.


QUOTE:
1 Cor. 9:23.
Paul voluntarily did this in order to gain the widest possible hearing for the gospel and so to share in its blessings as God's fellow worker (3:9), reaping the joyful harvest of many won to Christ (cf. John 4:36).

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty. -END QUOTE.


QUOTE:
9:23 Now this I do for the gospel's sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. In the preceding verses Paul had been describing how he submerged his own rights and desires in the work of the Lord. Why did he do this? He did it for the gospel's sake, in order that he might share in the triumphs of the gospel in a coming day.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding. -END QUOTE.


He is not talking about the Gospel itself, but rather the Blessings we receive because we genuinely responded to the Gospel.

And just so you know it says CROWNS in this verse:

Revelation 19:12-13 (HCSB)
12 His eyes were like a fiery flame, and many crowns were on His head. He had a name written that no one knows except Himself.
13 He wore a robe stained with blood, and His name is the Word of God.

He Speaks of specifically Different Crowns, throughout Scripture; and then He says:

1 John 3:2 (HCSB)
2 Dear friends, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him because we will see Him as He is.

 

[Judges1318]

All those who are born again, will be seen come judgement as spotless.

I know that.
That's why we should remain born again through our continued faith in Christ.

A "former believer" would have never been saved because the "faith" they professed was never a saving faith and would only appear to be a "former believer" before man and before God they were always in unbelief having no trust, confidence, fidelity in Christ.

Says who?

You can never have been redeemed at any point by Jesus, then face judgement without His righteousness.

You can if you trample on the blood of Christ by which you were sanctified in willful unbelief.
You can't have the safety of Christ's blood that you no longer believe and trust in.

It is a gift that can/will not be returned or taken back.

Says who?

 

[EleventhHour]

I know that.
That's why we should remain born again through our continued faith in Christ.


Says who?


You can if you trample on the blood of Christ by which you were sanctified in willful unbelief.
You can't have the safety of Christ's blood that you no longer believe and trust in.


Says who?

Remain born again???

The spirit of fear of losing salvation you keep pushing is not from God.

 

[VCO]

Remain born again???

The spirit of fear of losing salvation you keep pushing is not from God.

There is only levels of Born Again:

You ARE eternally Born Again,

OR,

You Never Have Been Born Again.

 

[OneOfHis]

1.I know that.
That's why we should remain born again through our continued faith in Christ.


2.Says who?


3.You can if you trample on the blood of Christ by which you were sanctified in willful unbelief.
You can't have the safety of Christ's blood that you no longer believe and trust in.


4.Says who?

1. I don't remain born by choice, nor can I remain born again by choice.

2. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

"We are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."

3. Those He has sanctified, He will also justify.

Hebrews 10:14

“For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

" And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."



4.
Romans 11:29
New International Version
for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

New Living Translation
For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.

English Standard Version
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Berean Study Bible
For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

Berean Literal Bible
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

New American Standard Bible
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

New King James Version
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

King James Bible
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Christian Standard Bible
since God's gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

Romans 8:38-39
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Judges1318]

1. I don't remain born by choice, nor can I remain born again by choice.

Actually, you do have the choice whether you remain alive or not.

2. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

If vs. 19 means all genuinely saved people never ever leave Christ (or else they were never really saved to begin with), why does John then proceed to warn the saved people he's talking to remain?

19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
1 John 2:19,24-26

If vs. 19 means what you say it means then these saved people can't be led astray. Yet he warns them so they won't be led astray. Obviously, osas is taking vs. 19 out of context and saying it applies to all people when in fact he's talking about a very specific set of people in his church at that time. The Gnostics to be specific. They did not believe that Christ came in the flesh (see the context). That is the person who never belonged to the truth because it's impossible to be saved if came to Christ thinking he did not come in the flesh.

"We are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."

Yes, believing people are by definition not people who have drawn back to perdition.
You can't be believing and drawing back to perdition at the same time.
The warnings are not to draw back to perdition.
Osas is misusing this scripture to say all the warnings in Hebrews only apply to those who don't really believe and never believed.
Osas says the letter is written to believers but then when it comes to something that doesn't line up with osas doctrine it says that part is meant for the never really saved unbelievers in the church.

3. Those He has sanctified, He will also justify.

Yes, if you keep believing.
The whole context of scripture shows us this promise applies to the person who believes to the very end.
It is not for those who stop believing.

Hebrews 10:14

“For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

In context it says nothing about this meaning you can not lose your salvation.
The context shows us this means Christ does not have to be sacrificed over and over again.
It says that in plain words.

" And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Of course believing people are washed, sanctified, and justified by the Spirit of God.
That's why we should continue to be believing people.

4.
Romans 11:29
New International Version
for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

New Living Translation
For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.

English Standard Version
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Berean Study Bible
For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

Berean Literal Bible
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

New American Standard Bible
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

New King James Version
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

King James Bible
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Christian Standard Bible
since God's gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

How does God never changing his mind about giving the gifts and calling to Israel, even though they have been dying and going to hell for centuries, mean the person who does believe can never lose the gift of salvation?

Romans 8:38-39
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The whole context of scripture shows us this does not include the believers freedom to stop believing.
It means the love of God in salvation can not be forcibly taken from you.
The old covenant did not afford this security for the people of God.
That's what makes this so meaningful.
But osas twists and misuses it to mean you can't ever lose your salvation no matter what, under any conditions.

 

[OneOfHis]

Actually, you do have the choice whether you remain alive or not.

Before we go further, you changed the subject.


I can not choose to be born, or remain born. I was born.

I can not choose to be born again, this is of God. I can not choose to remain born of God. I was born of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

So in other words you don't actually have a rebuttal to the post. Just a I say so and more unchristian like behavior. Gotcha ya...

Oh I did, you're just to obstinate and ignorant of the truth to receive it....

 

[Judges1318]

Before we go further, you changed the subject.


I can not choose to be born, or remain born. I was born.

I can not choose to be born again, this is of God. I can not choose to remain born of God. I was born of God.

I did not change the subject.
Being born again is you being made spiritually alive by the Spirit of God joining Himself to your spiritually dead spirit.
Being born again is a metaphor for your new life. It's not about having a baby.
You're making it out to be like it's a new baby running around the house that you can't just make go away as if it was never born.

"God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions" - Ephesians 2:4-5

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