Not By Works

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Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
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I think you make a good point here in your post. I am wondering what is the difference between real saving faith and that which is not? Can this difference be noticed in oneself? In others?
Man cannot infallibly know someone else’s heart. Even Judas Iscariot looked like the real deal to the 11 remaining disciples but Jesus knew his heart and said, “he is a devil!” (John 6:70) Yet some people have their agenda.
Like @mailmandan said, it's impossible... Unless...
He has the much coveted charismatic spiritual gift of discernment:eek:
 

Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
279
350
63
I think you make a good point here in your post. I am wondering what is the difference between real saving faith and that which is not? Can this difference be noticed in oneself? In others?
First off, if we were capable of discerning the actual work of the Spirit from outward showing, what would our evangelism look like? I think it would look judgmental and completely prejudiced. How does that serve the kingdom of God?
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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I think you make a good point here in your post. I am wondering what is the difference between real saving faith and that which is not? Can this difference be noticed in oneself? In others?
We can know we are His.... but ultimately we can only judge others by their words and actions...

If someone says "Jesus is Lord" like judas
we cant KNOW he is genuine


If someone rejects Jesus in word.... like peter.... we could only see his testimony



God knows who is His, and we can be confident in His promises and that they apply to us (and to all who believe)


judges friend may still be saved and living like the "prodigal son" who is seen as dead but still alive and a son



or he may never have been saved


God knows and doesnt flip flop and isnt decieved by a less than genuine faith though...
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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First off, if we were capable of discerning the actual work of the Spirit from outward showing, what would our evangelism look like? I think it would look judgmental and completely prejudiced. How does that serve the kingdom of God?
I was asking more from the standpoint of something I was wondering about and curiosity. I also have questioned my own faith. John Bunyan who wrote the book Pilgrim's Progress had questioned before if he had faith.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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I was asking more from the standpoint of something I was wondering about and curiosity. I also have questioned my own faith. John Bunyan who wrote the book Pilgrim's Progress had questioned before if he had faith.
I think it is good to examine ourselves in that way, especially early on.


I think after we have grown a bit (which is only possible by Him) and saw His works in us it is best to be confident and assured in who He has made us so we can be grateful.


It reminds me of a couple verses


Proverbs 9:10
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding

1 John 4:18
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.



The fear with dread knowing we deserve His justice we once had should transform more into a love for Him who loved us first...

(though we ought to still have a healthy fear like a child who knows their Father is watching)



Then instead of examining if He has started in us, we examine if we are walking as He wants us to...
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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I think you make a good point here in your post. I am wondering what is the difference between real saving faith and that which is not? Can this difference be noticed in oneself? In others?
I think we can discern the new spiritual life within us and the Holy Spirit bears witness to our spirit.

I myself knew for sure that I was born again without a doubt...it is a spiritual experience.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I think you make a good point here in your post. I am wondering what is the difference between real saving faith and that which is not? Can this difference be noticed in oneself? In others?
I would say no

I think there will be many we think were saved who will not be in heaven, and many we think are lost. Will be in heaven.
 
Mar 14, 2011
68,743
14,482
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I was asking more from the standpoint of something I was wondering about and curiosity. I also have questioned my own faith. John Bunyan who wrote the book Pilgrim's Progress had questioned before if he had faith.
Its easier to question our own faith. Which james tells us all to do

Than it is to test the faith of others.

A lot of people can act like christians, because they do s=certain deeds. Remember, the people James confronted where in church and sitting peole. So they most likely held positions in the church. Even Jesus said our righteousness has to be far above the pharisee.. or we have no hope
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,449
833
113
Its easier to question our own faith. Which james tells us all to do

Than it is to test the faith of others.

A lot of people can act like christians, because they do s=certain deeds. Remember, the people James confronted where in church and sitting peole. So they most likely held positions in the church. Even Jesus said our righteousness has to be far above the pharisee.. or we have no hope
What did Jesus mean by that statement? Is that meaning the righteousness of Christ given to believers?
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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What did Jesus mean by that statement? Is that meaning the righteousness of Christ given to believers?
Yes.
Spot on.


Even if we lived our lives and did our best to be justified under the law, our righteousness is not enough.


(the end of romans 9 and start of 10 in my opinion words this very clearly)


What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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I would say no

I think there will be many we think were saved who will not be in heaven, and many we think are lost. Will be in heaven.
I think God can and does very rarely reveal to us the Holy Spirit in another ...it is a spirit to spirit connection.

Not sure if this is in the Bible though.. however it is not a judgement thing just a sense of discerning.

I would really like thoughts on this?
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Could you guys please pray for my Daddy? He fell in Kinney Drugs' parking lot and was unconcious for awhile. My brother just called and Daddy is now in the hospital, having tests done to determine why he fell. He's awake and talking but is all banged and bruised up..
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,340
2,114
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I think God can and does very rarely reveal to us the Holy Spirit in another ...it is a spirit to spirit connection.

Not sure if this is in the Bible though.. however it is not a judgement thing just a sense of discerning.

I think I agree on some level as well.

We can be blessed by how God uses someone in our life, and definitely discern good fruit from bad fruit.


One thing specifically I have seen where I felt I saw someone being moved by God was a very proud man being humbled by the truth and actually showing a side of him I hadn't seen before....

I can't say for sure obviously... but it certainly reminded me of what God does to me when I'm shown my own error....
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,340
2,114
113
Could you guys please pray for my Daddy? He fell in Kinney Drugs' parking lot and was unconcious for awhile. My brother just called and Daddy is now in the hospital, having tests done to determine why he fell. He's awake and talking but is all banged and bruised up..
Oh no.....

I will definitely pray sis... I hope the cause isnt major and he heals up quickly.....
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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Thank you, J.. :) He has a bad heart, but he may have tripped, or slipped on ice, or one of his legs may have given out..
Oh goodness...


You said he went unconsious?

I hope there is no concussion....


(it is super icy here too... but that kind of fall is no joke.... i hope he is safe and healthy appart from the bangs or bruises)
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,479
7,920
113
Could you guys please pray for my Daddy? He fell in Kinney Drugs' parking lot and was unconcious for awhile. My brother just called and Daddy is now in the hospital, having tests done to determine why he fell. He's awake and talking but is all banged and bruised up..
Sorry to hear about this ...will pray and hope they learn what happened so it does not happen again.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,593
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113
Oh goodness...


You said he went unconsious?

I hope there is no concussion....


(it is super icy here too... but that kind of fall is no joke.... i hope he is safe and healthy appart from the bangs or bruises)
The last time he fell, he broke his arm. He's fallen several times, and finally had a pacemaker put in. However it acted wonky for awhile and kept shocking him, literally knocking him on his a**. They finally got it adjusted but sometimes he just falls for no conceivable reason. He's gonna be 89 in May..
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,479
7,920
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The last time he fell, he broke his arm. He's fallen several times, and finally had a pacemaker put in. However it acted wonky for awhile and kept shocking him, literally knocking him on his a**. They finally got it adjusted but sometimes he just falls for no conceivable reason. He's gonna be 89 in May..
Medical diagnosis is often like that...sometimes hard for them to figure out after the fact.