Not By Works

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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No, if you fall away into unbelief and God turns you over to that unbelief you are not allowed to come back to faith in Christ.
I guess you go to Hebrews for that? You know, the book written to the Jews in the last days?🤦‍♂️
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
1,236
445
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I guess you go to Hebrews for that? You know, the book written to the Jews in the last days?
Did the writer of this letter originally write "To the Hebrews" in bold letters at the top on the first section of the scroll before writing this inspired letter?

Because no where in the body of the text is it indicated that this was written to the Jews.

Just curious.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
3,421
847
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I guess you go to Hebrews for that? You know, the book written to the Jews in the last days?🤦‍♂️
There is no different gospel for the Jews than for the gentile, either now or in the time of the law.
Look here, a Jewish woman, under the law, being saved by faith :eek:...

47“...her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little.” 48Then He said to her, “Your sins have been forgiven.” 49Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this man who even forgives sins?” 50And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” - Luke 7:47-50

He didn't say her works saved her. Her FAITH saved her.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,863
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No, if you fall away into unbelief and God turns you over to that unbelief you are not allowed to come back to faith in Christ.
lets do this situation:

im now believing in Christ
i fall away into unbelief and become a pagan idol worshiper
now i want to repent of it and come back.... are you saying that 1. i would never want to repent to begin with or 2. i can believe all i want and repent all i want but i can never be saved again?

which is it for you 1 or 2?
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
3,421
847
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lets do this situation:

im now believing in Christ
i fall away into unbelief and become a pagan idol worshiper
now i want to repent of it and come back.... are you saying that 1. i would never want to repent to begin with or 2. i can believe all i want and repent all i want but i can never be saved again?


which is it for you 1 or 2?
Depending on the circumstances in which you decided to abandon your faith in God, He gave you some measure of time to come back to your senses. How long or how short, or if at all, depends on the person and their situation and maturity level. I cite the example of the Galatians.

So, assuming God has turned you over to your unbelief, you can not come back to faith in Christ because God doesn't allow Christ to be put to open shame (Hebrews 6:6). That shows us this is about God not letting a person come back, not a matter of of not wanting to come back. So to answer your questions:

1) You may want to come back for the simple fact you realize you don't want to go to the fires of hell. Or you may not.

2) I don't think you can actually believe again, for you have been turned over to the unbelief that you have chosen and stripped of the power of the testimony of the Holy Spirit to instill faith in you. I cite the following passage to show how God turns a person over to their unbelief, locking them in it:

"10 ...with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness." - 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

I'm not saying this passage is directly addressing the matter of falling away from genuine faith. I'm using it to show how God turns people over to their unbelief and locks them out from having the truth and the faith to ever be saved. If a former believer gets to this point, it's over for them.

I leave it up to the individual to decide where they have fallen to and whether or not God has turned them over to their unbelief. I think not being able to believe again, even if you want to, is a good sign you have been turned over without remedy. I'm trying to be very, very careful here because I do not want to discourage any ex-believer from wondering if they can come back to faith in Christ and be saved. God is the epitome of patience and long suffering. Who am I to pass judgment on the ex-believer?
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
3,421
847
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Dude! All you did is pass judgment throughout your post. Speculation is judgment.
Sharing the scriptures is not passing judgment in the negative sense that I assume you mean.

I don't think anyone can know for sure if an ex-believer can come back or not, unless God specifically shows you they can. That's a judgment you and I can not make.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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Sharing the scriptures is not passing judgment in the negative sense that I assume you mean.

I don't think anyone can know for sure if an ex-believer can come back or not, unless God specifically shows you they can. That's a judgment you and I can not make.
You don’t think anyone can know for sure if an ex-believer can come back or not and yet the entire premise of your post was that for the most part ex-believers cannot come back.

Judge, I believe your heart is in the right place and I admire your love for God. You definitely have a passion for God and your reverence for Him is beautiful, but you don’t trust the magnitude of His grace.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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By the way, I still reserve my Biblical right to decide who I will consider a brother and who I will not. ;)
With respect, I couldn’t possibly care less what you consider me or anyone else who puts their trust in Jesus Christ.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,396
7,806
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No, if you fall away into unbelief and God turns you over to that unbelief you are not allowed to come back to faith in Christ.

To anyone reading this thread this absolutely untrue.
Jesus goes and finds the lost sheep, He adopts His children... meaning He keeps them

13 And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. 14 So lit is not the will of my5 Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
Matthew 18
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,658
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To anyone reading this thread this absolutely untrue.
Jesus goes and finds the lost sheep, He adopts His children... meaning He keeps them

13 And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. 14 So lit is not the will of my5 Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
Matthew 18
You asked me why I haven’t been around lately. The fact that you needed to post what you did is exactly why I haven’t been around lately. It gets tiring refuting people who shut out the kingdom of heaven against others.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,396
7,806
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You asked me why I haven’t been around lately. The fact that you needed to post what you did is exactly why I haven’t been around lately. It gets tiring refuting people who shut out the kingdom of heaven against others.
I just do not want anyone to believe it. So as much as it is hard to read that nonsense, I believe me it is very hard, I feel more driven to come up against it... but then I have had personal experience of these false teachings before coming to CC and I know the damage it inflicts.

NO ONE who is saved should ever doubt their salvation ... not even for a Nanosecond
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,396
7,806
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Imputed righteousness is secured by our believing.
That same believing continues to secure imputed righteousness.


How do I access this Jesus who maintains us?

That's right.
It's the one and only believing that you started out with in the beginning.
It isn't new, or additional, or different believing.
It's the very same believing you started out in, uninterrupted and continuing.
That believing that you started out in must continue for you to continue to have the salvation that believing secures for you:

"... you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you..." - 1 Corinthians 15:2

"14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end" - Hebrews 3:14

So, according to the scriptures above, am I saved partaker of Christ if I do not hold fast the believing I started out with?



Okay, then what must I do to trust Him?
How do I access this Jesus who maintains us?
Why do you state "this" Jesus ... do you not know Jesus?
There is only one Jesus and He has made clear promises to His children.

Okay, then what must I do to trust Him
What are you believing in Christ for? If it is not for eternal security than WHAT KIND OF SALVATION IS IT?

Christ asks us to believe something very specific about Him: that He guarantees one's eternal salvation when they take Him at His word concerning such.

Assurance is the essence of faith.

This is true by definition because faith, as Hebrews 11:1 states, the state of being certain that a thing is true.

Now faith is the [a]substance of things hoped for, the [b]evidence of things not seen.

Believing that Jesus will give eternal life necessarily entails being certain of that fact.
No certainty = no faith.