Not By Works

[Judges1318]

The believer has an eternal status, deemed justified, sanctified and righteous by believing upon/trusting in Christ Jesus for eternal life once...

I've been saying this all along.
The BELIEVER--not the unbeliever, and not the person who has stopped believing--has the life that is eternal. The believer receives eternal life the moment he starts believing. This is not in dispute. What you disagree with is you have to continue that believing in order to continue to have what that believing lays hold of.

...it cannot be revoked.

Matthew 18:21-35 dispels all myths that somehow 'gifts' can not be taken back:

32“...‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.” - Matthew 18:32-35

 

[Judges1318]

I see no fruit in you..... why judge someone’s fruit when you have none?

That is your right as a Christian to discern whatever it is that you think you are discerning about me.
I'm not going to take that God given responsibility away from you.
I would ask that you do it in knowledge......and humbly.

And even if I had no fruit, does that automatically make my judgment about other fruitless trees wrong?
No, of course not.

That's why Christians would do well to look at why the world condemns them.
Many times their judgement of us is spot on.
But we dismiss it in the name of 'judging'.

 

[Judges1318]

Are your words even those that Christ would recognize?

My words come right out of the Bible.
Usually, the problem is Christians who hear me don't know and recognize that what I say is in their own Bibles.
It's a big problem among Christians these days.
They don't know their own Bibles.

It’s obvious your agenda is to hurt the flock - your words are condemning words and do NOT give life.

Telling Christians to continue to believe so they can continue to have eternal life is not hurting the flock, nor is it condemning.
And neither is it condemning to exhort the body of Christ to grow up into that which really matters in the faith.
Children are the ones who think that correction is wrong, and bad, and unfair.

 

[Judges1318]

Your own words will judge and condemn you because they are lies, the Truth is NOT in you.

So be it.
I'm only saying what the Bible says.

 

[Lightskin]

Are your words even those that Christ would recognize?

It’s obvious your agenda is to hurt the flock - your words are condemning words and do NOT give life.

Your own words will judge and condemn you because they are lies, the Truth is NOT in you.

He seems to yearn for righteousness but doesn’t understand the essence of grace.

 

[VCO]

I've been saying this all along.
The BELIEVER--not the unbeliever, and not the person who has stopped believing--has the life that is eternal. The believer receives eternal life the moment he starts believing. This is not in dispute. What you disagree with is you have to continue that believing in order to continue to have what that believing lays hold of.


Matthew 18:21-35 dispels all myths that somehow 'gifts' can not be taken back:

32“...‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.” - Matthew 18:32-35

I clicked on those people I have IGNORED for just a second, and LOW AND BEHOLD, YOU are off on Yet another ERROR, of FAILING TO UNDERSTAND BORN AGAIN.

It is NOT A MATTER you have to continue that believing in order to continue to have what that believing lays hold of, because HE has birthed a NEW NATURE in side of our Heart or Human Spirit.

When we were born again, WE WERE CHANGED, HE Put a REAL born again human spirit with in us. No longer do we even want to not believe, but we absolutely WILL believe, because of WHO IS IN US, and BECAUSE HE HAS BIRTHED OUR HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE. AND ETERNAL does mean FOREVER.

You still have the Old Nature, because you have never experienced the New Birth, therefore you do not love the LORD with more than human love. WE HAVE THE GOD's LOVE within us and therefore that LOVE IS ETERNAL.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

John 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

2 Corinthians 5:17-18 (HCSB)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, ⌊he is⌋ a new creation; old things have passed away, and look, new things have come.
18 Everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

Because of that AGAPE LOVE WE WILL ALWAYS WANT TO STRIVE TO LOVE HIM BACK BY OBEDIENCE.

 

[Judges1318]

He seems to yearn for righteousness but doesn’t understand the essence of grace.

Of course I want to be righteous.
I love righteousness, don't you?
That's why God's grace in the forgiveness of my sins is so precious to me and why I cling to it.
It cleanses me of the unrighteousness I hate.
And His Spirit gives me the righteousness I long for.
Not just in a legal declaration of right standing with Him.
But in the righteousness of a holy life, too.
And where I fail that, I have His continuing forgiveness through my continuing faith to cleanse that failure away.

So many Christians think God's grace is a declaration of righteousness. The end.
They don't seem to seek or care about acting out God's righteousness in daily living and being righteous that way.
They make grace a license to NOT have to seek or care about that.
It's very discouraging to see that in the church today.
I'm not going to pretend not to know what the Bible says about those who do that.

 

[Judges1318]

...but doesn’t understand the essence of grace.

Christians who walk the talk know grace better than Christians who don't.

Grace isn't just a get out of jail free card.
Grace is also the power to live a godly life.
You aren't living in the fullness of God's grace until you do that.
And for the times you fail that, there is still God's grace of forgiveness.

 

[Judges1318]

but, what really counts, the inner belief was not there.

And according to Hebrews 3 how do we know the inner belief wasn't there?
They disobeyed.

 

[walknlight]

Christians who walk the talk know grace better than Christians who don't.

Grace isn't just a get out of jail free card.
Grace is also the power to live a godly life.
You aren't living in the fullness of God's grace until you do that.
And for the times you fail that, there is still God's grace of forgiveness.

Grace = unmerited favor
Mercy= holding back what is deserved

 

[John146]

And according to Hebrews 3 how do we know the inner belief wasn't there?
They disobeyed.

Hebrews is to Jews in the last days. To make it a Christian epistle is a huge mistake. Yes, there are things applicable to the body of Christ as in all Scripture, but doctrinally, it’s to the Jews to turn them to Jesus Christ.

 

[John146]

So many Christians think God's grace is a declaration of righteousness. The end.
They don't seem to seek or care about acting out God's righteousness in daily living and being righteous that way.

Who thinks like this? Is this just a blank statement trying to justify your position?

 

[CherieR]

Of course I want to be righteous.
I love righteousness, don't you?
That's why God's grace in the forgiveness of my sins is so precious to me and why I cling to it.
It cleanses me of the unrighteousness I hate.
And His Spirit gives me the righteousness I long for.
Not just in a legal declaration of right standing with Him.
But in the righteousness of a holy life, too.
And where I fail that, I have His continuing forgiveness through my continuing faith to cleanse that failure away.

So many Christians think God's grace is a declaration of righteousness. The end.
They don't seem to seek or care about acting out God's righteousness in daily living and being righteous that way.
They make grace a license to NOT have to seek or care about that.
It's very discouraging to see that in the church today.
I'm not going to pretend not to know what the Bible says about those who do that.

I like these verses from Ephesians 5:25-27
( KJV ):

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

I see in these verses Jesus not only gave himself up to pay for our sins on the cross but also that he may present the church to himself as glorious, and " not having spot, or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
That which Jesus has purposed for the church, he will do.

 

[gb9]

And according to Hebrews 3 how do we know the inner belief wasn't there?
They disobeyed.

how about this - I do not care about Hebrews 3. yes, I said it, I mean it,
because Hebrews 3 is NOT a stand alone directive.

the Bible is to be taken as a whole. not chopped into pieces and theology be built around those pieces.

and, since Israel walked through a sea with walls of water on each side ( or if was the reed sea, and the wall was 4 feet high, that is still impressive ). and saw with there own eyes God's awesome presence descend on Sinai, yet STILL complained and doubted, that would indicate a lack of a strong inner belief.

 

[walknlight]

he will do.

Amen!

 

[Judges1318]

Hebrews is to Jews in the last days. To make it a Christian epistle is a huge mistake. Yes, there are things applicable to the body of Christ as in all Scripture, but doctrinally, it’s to the Jews to turn them to Jesus Christ.

Your theology is horrible.
Time constraints have kept me from addressing it in full in the 'James' thread.
Your dual gospel is easily debunked.

Justification/salvation has ALWAYS been by faith.
The Covenant of faith existed before there was even any Israelites and the law, and the covenant of law can not in any way shape or form change or replace or nullify the Covenant made before it.

 

[Lightskin]

Grace isn't just a get out of jail free card.

That’s exactly what it is but a godly person will not mock God by taking advantage of His grace.

 

[Judges1318]

That which Jesus has purposed for the church, he will do.

If you hang in there and keep believing.

 

[Judges1318]

That’s exactly what it is but a godly person will not mock God by taking advantage of His grace.

And that's what I'm saying........not a lot of godly people in the church today.

 

[John146]

Your theology is horrible.
Time constraints have kept me from addressing it in full in the 'James' thread.
Your dual gospel is easily debunked.

Justification/salvation has ALWAYS been by faith.
The Covenant of faith existed before there was even any Israelites and the law, and the covenant of law can not in any way shape or form change or replace or nullify the Covenant made before it.

If you believe this, then it is you who believes in a dual gospel unto salvation. The gospel of salvation is specifically how Christ died for our sins, was buried and resurrected the third day. Can you at least post where someone, anyone believed this before the resurrection? Thanks.