Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You aren't getting it.
The saved church immediately following the Apostles had that red flag.
You're trying to make a case, using your logical fallacy, where there isn't one.
I'm non-osas and I guarantee you I'm 100% born again, Spirit-filled, saved by grace apart from works, and eagerly awaiting the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. Your suggestion that non-osas is a belief of unbelievers is patently false.
The saved church immediately following the Apostles had that red flag.
You're trying to make a case, using your logical fallacy, where there isn't one.
I'm non-osas and I guarantee you I'm 100% born again, Spirit-filled, saved by grace apart from works, and eagerly awaiting the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. Your suggestion that non-osas is a belief of unbelievers is patently false.
-
1
- Show all
Yep.
This is not in dispute.
I've told you this over and over.
The reason you keep saying it is because you automatically see 'saved' as 'unable to be unsaved'.
That's the osas bias that blinds your eyes.
I look at the same verses you do, that a person is saved as soon as they believe, but I don't have your osas bias, so I know it's not saying that just because you are indeed saved the moment you believe that means you can not lose it.
You are guilty of the famous osas circular reasoning.
You use the scriptures that say you're saved to prove that you can't lose your salvation because you're saved.
That's the circular reasoning of the osas argument.
Well, actually God did set that up:
"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" - 1 Corinthians 15:2
What part of this scripture (along with all the others) do you not understand?
This is not in dispute.
I've told you this over and over.
The reason you keep saying it is because you automatically see 'saved' as 'unable to be unsaved'.
That's the osas bias that blinds your eyes.
I look at the same verses you do, that a person is saved as soon as they believe, but I don't have your osas bias, so I know it's not saying that just because you are indeed saved the moment you believe that means you can not lose it.
You are guilty of the famous osas circular reasoning.
You use the scriptures that say you're saved to prove that you can't lose your salvation because you're saved.
That's the circular reasoning of the osas argument.
Well, actually God did set that up:
"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" - 1 Corinthians 15:2
What part of this scripture (along with all the others) do you not understand?
You're using the unfair logical fallacy of guilt by association.
My obsession is with doctrines that lead people into falsely believing they are saved and/or lead them away from what really matters in Christianity and faith in Christ.
That's important.
Some of this other stuff we Christians like to talk about, not so much.
I can't believe you are so intent on tearing me down when the only difference we have is I believe a true believer can stop believing and you don't. But for some reason you won't lift a finger to directly address and tear down these Freegrace osas doctrines being posted here--doctrines that are waaaaay more opposed to your Calvinistic osas beliefs than my non-osas beliefs are. That's telling me something, Lt. mailmandan.
My obsession is with doctrines that lead people into falsely believing they are saved and/or lead them away from what really matters in Christianity and faith in Christ.
That's important.
Some of this other stuff we Christians like to talk about, not so much.
I can't believe you are so intent on tearing me down when the only difference we have is I believe a true believer can stop believing and you don't. But for some reason you won't lift a finger to directly address and tear down these Freegrace osas doctrines being posted here--doctrines that are waaaaay more opposed to your Calvinistic osas beliefs than my non-osas beliefs are. That's telling me something, Lt. mailmandan.
-
1
- Show all
E
Yep.
This is not in dispute.
I've told you this over and over.
The reason you keep saying it is because you automatically see 'saved' as 'unable to be unsaved'.
That's the osas bias that blinds your eyes.
I look at the same verses you do, that a person is saved as soon as they believe, but I don't have your osas bias, so I know it's not saying that just because you are indeed saved the moment you believe that means you can not lose it.
You are guilty of the famous osas circular reasoning.
You use the scriptures that say you're saved to prove that you can't lose your salvation because you're saved.
That's the circular reasoning of the osas argument.
Well, actually God did set that up:
"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" - 1 Corinthians 15:2
What part of this scripture (along with all the others) do you not understand?
This is not in dispute.
I've told you this over and over.
The reason you keep saying it is because you automatically see 'saved' as 'unable to be unsaved'.
That's the osas bias that blinds your eyes.
I look at the same verses you do, that a person is saved as soon as they believe, but I don't have your osas bias, so I know it's not saying that just because you are indeed saved the moment you believe that means you can not lose it.
You are guilty of the famous osas circular reasoning.
You use the scriptures that say you're saved to prove that you can't lose your salvation because you're saved.
That's the circular reasoning of the osas argument.
Well, actually God did set that up:
"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" - 1 Corinthians 15:2
What part of this scripture (along with all the others) do you not understand?
I am done for now Judges.
Really sad how you promote a losable salvation.
We do not hold fast to a gift, that is ridiculous.
It is an affront to Jesus to state He gives away, or cannot keep those that are His... just terrible, beyond words really.
-
1
- Show all
You made my work here EASIER, By spewing that open statement is a TOTAL LIE. You are not unusual, you are the NORM. I have found almost NOBODY that has a Vendetta AGAINST OSAS, who has as actually believed a LIE about OSAS, and NOT the Truth what we actually TEACH and BELIEVE.
WE BELIEVE THERE IS NOT A SINGLE WORK, that YOU can earn Salvation or even maintain SALVATION. Working to earn or maintain Salvation is a TOTAL WAIST of TIME! WHY? Because IT IS A FREE GIFT, for those HE WROTE in the BOOK OF LIFE before the earth was formed. We (OSAS) actually BELIEVE nothing CAN BE A DONE TO IMPROVE YOUR CHANCES TO MAKE SALVATION, because when you do that, the LORD SEES IT AS FILTHY RAGS, totally worthless as a motive to GET SAVED.
OBEDIENCE IS NOT PART OF SALVATION, HOWEVER, OBEDIENCE IS PART OF OUR AGAPE LOVE, WHICH HE POURED INTO OUR HEARTS also the Human Spirit:
Romans 5:1-10 (NRSV)
1 Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand; and we boast in our hope of sharing the glory of God.
3 And not only that, but we also boast in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance,
4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,
5 and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us.
6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 Indeed, rarely will anyone die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person someone might actually dare to die.
8 But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us.
9 Much more surely then, now that we have been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God.
10 For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life.
THEIR IS YOUR ASSURANCE THAT OSAS IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH! VERSE TEN SAYS IT IN PLAIN ENGLISH.
Here what OSAS CHURCHES actually TEACH! COMPARE THAT TO THE LIE THE DEVIL PLANTED IN YOUR BRAIN. I am sorry for your Parents, who only thought they knew what OSAS taught. However IF they ever had dug into the Scriptures, and researched it in the Church's Constitution and Doctrinal Statement of FAITH, HERE IS WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE FOUND OUT ABOUT GOD GIVEN LOVE:
John 14:15 (NRSV)
15 "If you {AGAPE = Born Again} love me, you will keep {no add's, if's, or but's, as it is SOLIDLY a lifestyle change in your human
spirit, purely motivated out of AGAPE LOVE in your human spirit. Never does it imply PERFECTION, but an ongoing striving to keep,
MOTIVATED BY AGAPE LOVE.} my commandments.
John 14:24 (NRSV)
24 Whoever does not {AGAPE} love me does not keep my words; . . .{That KEEP's is in the verb tense, that does not imply PERFECTION, but rather a lifestyle of striving to keep HIS Word, motivated by AGAPE LOVE. If it is only a little while of Striving, and you go back to your old ways, you NEVER HAD WHAT IT IS TALKING ABOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE, born again. NO IT IS NOT PART OF SALVATION, it is a changed lifestyle, motivated by AGAPE LOVE towards GOD.}
Then you again made another FALSE STATEMENT. YOU SAID: No backslider who dies in his backsliden state is going to heaven.
Let's Put that Statement to the TEST OF SCRIPTURE. I assume you are talking about a Born Again Christian, not a disciple WHO HAD NEVER HAS BEEN BORN AGAIN? According to SCRIPTURE, how many sins did HE pay for on the CROSS, ROM 5:10, (above). OH MY ALL OF THEM. And before you say, I am teaching you can sin all you want, NO I AM NOT. IF YOU HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN, YOU WILL RETURN LIKE THE PRODIGAL SON, the HOLY SPIRIT WILL CONVICT YOU IN YOUR HEART UNTIL YOU DO SO. IF YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN BORN AGAIN YOU WILL NOT RETURN, PERIOD, and no coviction in your heart which is also human spirit, because it is still DEAD.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.
Do you want to see if you are sinless? That is an EASY ONE.
James 2:10 (NIV)
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Just in case you still think you are SINLESS, I will focus on a sin that you think is TRIVIAL.
1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man
for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for
the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put
to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as
bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
{That would be President Donald Trump, if you are an American.}
Now I will give you one EXAMPLE that will prove you are a SINNER, and YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING ALL OF GOD'S LAWS.
GOD INSPIRED ALL OF SCRIPTURE, Both 1 Pet. 2:13-15 and James 2:10, AND YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING ALL OF GOD'S LAWS.
YOU ARE A SINNER LIKE THE REST OF US. Sounds like you NEED A SAVIOR WHO BELIEVES HE CAN SAVE US, OSAS.
-
1
- Show all
Salvation is a one time, done deal. Not because of human abilities but through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the "only" path to eternal salvation. Anyone peddling any other doctrine is wrong and is misleading others who may be on the edge of finding salvation.
The "rest of the story" is after one becomes a child of God, they will either grow and produce fruit or they will remain a child with only "milk to drink."
I cling to the Word of God, given to the people of God. John 3:16.
The "rest of the story" is after one becomes a child of God, they will either grow and produce fruit or they will remain a child with only "milk to drink."
I cling to the Word of God, given to the people of God. John 3:16.
-
2
- Show all
G
CHARACTERISTICS OF CHRISTIANITY:
1 John3:5 new birth.
2 2 Peter 3:18 growth.
3 Matthew 5:16 radiant life.
4 Matthew 7:24 Character building.
5 Luke 24:32 fellowship.
6 John 1:12 sonship.
7 John 8:31-32 An education
8 1Timothy 6:18 service.
9 Romans 12:1 sacrifice.
10 Colosians 2:6 A walk
11 1Timothy 6:12 warfare
12 Hebrews 12:1 A race
13 1John5:4 victory
14 John 17:3 An assurance of Immortality.
I'm sure these can be added to.
1 John3:5 new birth.
2 2 Peter 3:18 growth.
3 Matthew 5:16 radiant life.
4 Matthew 7:24 Character building.
5 Luke 24:32 fellowship.
6 John 1:12 sonship.
7 John 8:31-32 An education
8 1Timothy 6:18 service.
9 Romans 12:1 sacrifice.
10 Colosians 2:6 A walk
11 1Timothy 6:12 warfare
12 Hebrews 12:1 A race
13 1John5:4 victory
14 John 17:3 An assurance of Immortality.
I'm sure these can be added to.
It's called searing the conscience. Happens just as you say - over time spent resisting and resisting the voice of God so that the spiritual callus on the ears becomes so great that His voice is no longer heard...aka "the Unpardonable Sin" and "Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost". Don't know why this is so foreign a concept to anyone reading the Bible with their eyes open.
-
1
- Show all