Not By Works

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EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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The Spirit of God can leave a person, or a thing, just as easily as He came in, and anytime He wants.


I can't believe the day is here when this is now called a works gospel:

"I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day." - 2 Timothy 1:12
Salvation that can be lost, revoked, returned, retracted is a works gospel... and not salvation at all!

Yeah, we have all dealt with your scriptures... not one supports what you peddle.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I would hope so, but I wonder if post did.
well apparently it's not because of the unknowable mystery of the person of the Godhead.

that's what i had assumed, but you've now informed me that knowing God ((which is eternal life, John 17:3, which is understanding, Proverbs 9:10)), in your opinion, is basically preschool knowledge.

so yeah, originally, i thought you chose this passage because you felt that fellowship with the LORD Almighty, to know Him, is the goal of our faith.
but now i understand that you believe the reason God took on flesh and died for us was in order to eventually teach us the same thing that even atheists with zero knowledge of God already know: that it's wrong to lie, cheat and kill.


i thought your screen name was pointing to the deep mysteries of God.
now i don't understand why you chose this for a screen name at all, unless it's just a joke about your online anonymity?
because you've told me you think the deep mysteries of God that man can scarcely comprehend aren't the unsearchable riches of His glory or the unknowable majesty of His name, but the most basic facts of civil behavior.


i guess i could just tear Exodus 20 out of my Bible and throw the rest away, huh?
i mean aren't you telling me it's the real important part, all the rest is fluff?
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
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You’re adding to the word yet again as you cannot keep your bias out of it, you have to mitigate the meaning to arrive at your error.

Which is the earnest of our inheritance,.... The incorruptible and never fading one in heaven, or the heavenly kingdom; this is the Father's gift, his bequest, and belongs only to children; it comes to them through the death of the testator, Christ, and is for ever; and of this the Spirit of God is the pledge and earnest: an earnest, is what confirms an agreement, and assures the right to the thing agreed to, and is a part of it, and lesser than it, and is never returned; so the Spirit of God certifies the right to the heavenly inheritance, as well as gives a meetness for it; he is the firstfruits of eternal glory and happiness, and of the same kind with it; and as he is enjoyed in measure by the saints now, is lesser than the communion which they shall have with him, and with the Father, and the Son, hereafter, for the best things are reserved till last; and being once given into the heart as an earnest, he always continues, he never removes more, or is ever taken away: John Gill
You being a pastor should know that the passage is plainly saying we are given a deposit of the Holy Spirit.


Exactly. That has to be one of the worst analogies I've ever seen...
It's horrible because it accurately represents the mindset of the osas believer.
They misunderstand the 'one time for all time' ministry of Christ to mean they can never lose it, but the Bible itself explains that means it does not have to be repeated and has nothing to do with not being able to lose that which does not have to be repeated.

The amazing thing being these plain words of the Bible have escaped the understanding of our wonderful pop theologians of the last few centuries. But should we really be surprised considering that they have not been able to read and understand the plain words about how and when to tithe? But Bereans who read the Bible for themselves and do not hold theological biases can see them. ;)
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
I think his heart is in the right place in that he honors Jesus, but sadly he has things twisted. He puts too much “self” into salvation.

I do not judge anyone's heart. But I do judge false messages as that misleads those seeking truth. Many young christians are being mislead to the point of even doubting their own salvation because of false doctrines.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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If I'm adding 'believing' to the gospel (that's funny), then so did Paul:

"2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." - 1 Corinthians 15:2



My unsaved son, who doesn't want to be saved, and doesn't care at all about the gospel was approached by a drunk in a bar one time who explained to him 'your' gospel. Even my son could see what a joke it was. My son pointed out to him how he was as drunk as he was and the guy said it didn't matter because he could do whatever he wanted and still be saved.
Your inference that I was drunk or even drinking is most despicable, I never even drank in University I didn't go there to waste my

money, this shows me how low you will stoop to push your false, non-saving, I save myself dogma.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
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I wasn't even drinking... as a matter of fact no one was it 12:00 and we were having lunch.... you are a real fool
Hmm.....did I say you or the other person had been drinking or was drunk?
I did not even suggest it.

But you can put me on record as saying you are not likely to hear the real gospel from a real Christian in a pub.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I'm just going by what the passage says.
The man really was forgiven, for free.
That forgiveness was taken back.
And Jesus said that's how it is in the kingdom, and what His Father will do to each of us in those same circumstances.
You are the one changing it up to make it 'not really' mean the free gift of forgiveness was really given and then taken back.

The fact that the servant received it in a less than noble heart does not diminish the plain fact that he really was forgiven the debt, and that the master reinstated it.
You're insisting I ignore what the scripture says.
I'm not going to do that.
That's dishonest.

I think it's clear that you're the one clinging to the frail hope that somehow the passage 'doesn't really' mean God takes back free gifts.
you're leaving out 2 key pieces of information:

  1. this wicked servant never asked for his debt to be forgiven; he asked instead for time, declaring he could pay his own sin debt. he presented himself to the Master in boasting, not in humility, but with a false humility.
  2. Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
    (2 Corinthians 5:18-19)

the wicked servant in Matthew 18 represents the world -- their trespasses not imputed to them because of the grace of God through Christ.
the world does not recognize their need for God, and despises the riches of His mercy in making atonement through the cross.
the world maintains that through their own works and merit they can '
outbalance' the debt of their wickedness, as though attaining a righteousness of their own apart from faith.
the world rejects the grace of God, and is judged for their rejection of Christ.
this is what the servant in Matthew 18 was judged for: for despising the mercy shown to them, refusing to show the same love to others. and so the world's debt of sin, tho atonement is made for them, is accounted to them in judgement, because they refused to acknowledge the grace of God through Christ.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
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Your inference that I was drunk or even drinking is most despicable, I never even drank in University I didn't go there to waste my

money, this shows me how low you will stoop to push your false, non-saving, I save myself dogma.
Look how low you're stooping to find fault.
I did not say or suggest you or the other person was drunk. :)
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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Hmm.....did I say you or the other person had been drinking or was drunk?
I did not even suggest it.

But you can put me on record as saying you are not likely to hear the real gospel from a real Christian in a pub.
Right, you try to be so sly.. why even add that on the drunk story..... yeah your true colors are showing once again.
 

Judges1318

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Nov 16, 2019
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Right, you try to be so sly.. why even add that on the drunk story.....
Because it illustrates the error of your 'new' osas theology.
You believe that there is NOTHING that can prevent the 'Christian' from being saved when Jesus comes back, not even a return to the bars in unbelief and a trampling on the blood of Christ.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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Hmm.....did I say you or the other person had been drinking or was drunk?
I did not even suggest it.

But you can put me on record as saying you are not likely to hear the real gospel from a real Christian in a pub.
Well because you are a legalist.. pubs on campus at lunch served good cheap food.

Do you not go to restaurants that have a liquor licence then?
 

Judges1318

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Nov 16, 2019
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Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

1 Corinthians 1:8 - He will sustain/confirm/keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:5 - who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ. :)
All excellent reasons to keep believing.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
SMH. It's called "demonstrating absurdity by being absurd". I don't really think you OSAS people think we're granted divine status, but I think the point is well made, and yet because you know it's true - that OSAS allows us to be in two places at once, the one place being safely in God's hands and the other place being separated as "pruned branches disconnected from the Vine" - you get annoyed by it.

And well you should. That is generally what happens when one's cherished view is challenged and shown to be bankrupt of virtue...our carnal feathers get ruffled. Because OSAS is so ridiculous in it's claim that the Christian can occupy both places at once, when we all know that we're either abiding in Jesus or in rebellion against Him. "He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth abroad."

Self righteousness comes across in all of your posts. You may disagree with other doctrines but when you post such as you do, you sound like a Pharisee. They were big on works, holding onto the law, etc. You don't even know what OSAS means. You give it your own self-righteousness tone.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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Did you ever manage to come up with that passage or verse of scripture that says my believing is me trying to save myself in a works gospel?

Please, keep searching.
You have been refuted over and over ... even when you were Ralph.

You are right it does exist in scripture because.... at the point of justification a person is saved! DONE
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
As a Christian, I believe hypocrisy, self-righteousness, holier than thou turns more young Christians away or those who are seeking Truth in order to become a child of God.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
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In your analogy, Johnny is responsible for holding onto the flashlight and not losing it. It is given in his hands.
And so the giver of the free flashlight is completely and utterly responsible to make sure he keeps it?

In the 'new' osas, Johnny still has the flashlight even if he tosses it aside, all the while thinking he still has it because it's a flashlight that never fails to shine.