Not By Works

[BillG]

There’s just one problem with this conclusion (that we will not be sinless until we are with Christ).

Christ said that those who attain unto the resurrection are as the angels in heaven (Matthew 22:30).

The angels were not sinless, especially Satan.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment...what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conduct and godliness (2 Peter 2:4; 3:11).

Why do some believers have the impression that they will be sinless in heaven? Are we going to have some power that the angels didn’t have? And where does the Bible say that it won’t be possible to sin once we’re in heaven?

Are you saying that we could still sin in heaven or have a propensity to sin?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

I do not see the word “add”.

It’s either or. The scripture you posted says, OR BY THE HEARING OF FAITH.

It does not say, “Did you receive the Spirit by ADDING the works of the law”

 

[Micaiah-imla]

How can you confess a sin you do not even know you have committed?

You did not read my post.

I said you confess it WHEN YOU GET KNOWLEDGE of it. The Holy Spirit will help us in this area.

 

[EleventhHour]

You did not read my post.

I said you confess it WHEN YOU GET KNOWLEDGE of it. The Holy Spirit will help us in this area.

Are you of the belief that only sins at the point of conversion are forgiven and all future sins must be confessed to be forgiven?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

The rules you desire to follow condemn you here you stand, How you can look at them and not fall on your face in shame and fear is beyond my comprehension,

Come now. Relax.

Are you telling me that you have no desire to follow rules?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

We were saved already while yet sinners

Wrong.

You left out a crucial word:

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we WERE yet sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8).

The word “were” is past tense.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Are you of the belief that only sins at the point of conversion are forgiven and all future sins must be confessed to be forgiven?

When a person hears the gospel and believes the gospel, all his sins up to that moment are forgiven and taken away.

This believer then grows in the faith by the word. Then, haven been made strong by the word, ceases to commit willful sin.

And if the believer continues in the faith in the integrity of his heart God can even prevent the believer from committing a sin in ignorance (Genesis 20:6).

And if a sin is committed in ignorance, the believer can confess it to God for forgiveness once the believer gets knowledge of it. The Holy Spirit can help the believer in this area.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not see the word “add”.

It’s either or. The scripture you posted says, OR BY THE HEARING OF FAITH.

It does not say, “Did you receive the Spirit by ADDING the works of the law”

And I do not see where I used the word add or ADDED in my post.

So what are you suggesting? Are you now twisting what I said?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You did not read my post.

I said you confess it WHEN YOU GET KNOWLEDGE of it. The Holy Spirit will help us in this area.

Yeah I did read your post. In response to my post saying we sin sins we do not even know are sins..

How can you GET knowledge of it, if it is an unknown sin?

I do not think you understand what I was saying

We sin everyday sins we do not even know are sins..

Because e do not look at what actually determins something is a sin, We look to some law or rule. and e say, yep I am not breaking it so I am not in sin,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Come now. Relax.

Are you telling me that you have no desire to follow rules?

I have a desire to follow CHrist. and live as he lived.

Followin grules will keep my focused off doing what God wants, and keep my focus on myself.

Why do yuo want to follow rules? To make yourself look righteous?

again I ask you. How can you look to the law and think you are even remotely close to being a righteous person?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wrong.

You left out a crucial word:

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we WERE yet sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8).

The word “were” is past tense.

I was not born when Christ died. so I was not yet a sinner.

nice try

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When a person hears the gospel and believes the gospel, all his sins up to that moment are forgiven and taken away.

This believer then grows in the faith by the word. Then, haven been made strong by the word, ceases to commit willful sin.

And if the believer continues in the faith in the integrity of his heart God can even prevent the believer from committing a sin in ignorance (Genesis 20:6).

And if a sin is committed in ignorance, the believer can confess it to God for forgiveness once the believer gets knowledge of it. The Holy Spirit can help the believer in this area.

So you can excuse some sins.

But others, You are in danger of hellfire

Sounds just like the pharisees did when they judged gentiles and tax collectors.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

I am not a sinner, I am a justified, blood purchased Child of God who has been given the righteousness of Christ.

This kind of double talk grieves my spirit.

You say you are not a sinner; then say that no one is sinless. What kind of doctrine produces this kind of madness?

You are taking the righteousness that God gives you upon believing in him and want to keep using this “first time shopper” special even after you are no longer a first time shopper. You think God is going to be mocked like this?

 

[EleventhHour]

When a person hears the gospel and believes the gospel, all his sins up to that moment are forgiven and taken away.

This believer then grows in the faith by the word. Then, haven been made strong by the word, ceases to commit willful sin.

And if the believer continues in the faith in the integrity of his heart God can even prevent the believer from committing a sin in ignorance (Genesis 20:6).

And if a sin is committed in ignorance, the believer can confess it to God for forgiveness once the believer gets knowledge of it. The Holy Spirit can help the believer in this area.

Sigh!! sad..... a different variation of a works Gospel.. trying to become sinless by conquering one's own sin day by day.

Why is this false teaching so prevalent now a days?

“Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.... For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy” Hebrews 10:11-12,14

 

[Micaiah-imla]

I was not born when Christ died. so I was not yet a sinner.

nice try

Nice try?

I accomplished my goal in showing that scripture was used missing a word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This kind of double talk grieves my spirit.

You say you are not a sinner; then say that no one is sinless. What kind of doctrine produces this kind of madness?

God calls me righteous. He calls me set apart. He calls me justified.

In Gods eyes. I am what he calls me. And I see myself as that way, As you should also.

You are taking the righteousness that God gives you upon believing in him and want to keep using this “first time shopper” special even after you are no longer a first time shopper. You think God is going to be mocked like this?

You think God is going to be mocked by your refusal to recieve his grace, and your mocking his promise of eternal life to all who believe and many many other promises?
Again, How can you look to the law of moses. and see yourself as righteous?

Both moses and paul declared in order for you to be righteous according to the law was to be perfect.

re you perfect? Even James said if you keep every word, yet just STUMBLE in one point. Your guilty

so how cna you not see yourself as guilty according to the law. Worthy of Death?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nice try?

I accomplished my goal in showing that scripture was used missing a word.

You showed he died when we were yet sinners

You did not show he did not saved us when we were yet sinners

She said we were saved while yet sinners

Your the one who was off topic.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

trying to become sinless by conquering one's own sin day by day

Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:16).

No one can conquer the body in the flesh.

But when you walk in the Spirit no effort is required.

The only effort needed is to deny the flesh by not obeying its desires (Ephesians 2:3).

 

[Micaiah-imla]

God calls me righteous. He calls me set apart. He calls me justified.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil (Isaiah 5:20).

He that says unto the wicked, You are righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him (Proverbs 24:24).

 

[azamzimtoti]

Paul was admonishing the Galatians because they wanted to be UNDER the law, not under FAITH.

What the Galatians did not seem to realize is that we through faith ESTABLISH the law and do it from the heart, not as a mental exercise.

He told the Galatians that by walking in the Spirit the deeds of the law are fulfilled because walking in the Spirit produces the things that are required in the law. He explained to them that walking in the flesh produces the things that are contrary to the law.

This is in error - When Paul stated:

(Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.)

He's saying that the are agreeing the LAW is true and we fail to live up to it, he is not saying "do it from the heart" which really is a euphemism for Law keeping.

The whole context of his argument is important and why he stated later:

(Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.)

Paul also stated Christian are dead to the Law, buried with Christ.