Not By Works

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Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
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There should be warnings because not everyone has belief that is firmly rooted and established in the first place. Hence, the warnings.
No, you tell unbelievers to believe.
You tell believers to continue to believe, not unbelievers.

Unbelievers can't continue in believing they have never done.
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
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So absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord
There’s just one problem with this conclusion (that we will not be sinless until we are with Christ).

Christ said that those who attain unto the resurrection are as the angels in heaven (Matthew 22:30).

The angels were not sinless, especially Satan.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment...what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conduct and godliness (2 Peter 2:4; 3:11).

Why do some believers have the impression that they will be sinless in heaven? Are we going to have some power that the angels didn’t have? And where does the Bible say that it won’t be possible to sin once we’re in heaven?
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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I'm curious if you can, with a clean conscience, make 'sanctified' in vs. 29 in the context of this passage not mean a saved person:


8After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

16“THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,


17“AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”


18Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

19Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:8-31 (bold and underline emphasis added by me)


I have been told vs. 26 through vs. 31 'doesn't really' mean a sanctified, saved person, but rather unbelievers who are sanctified, like an unbelieving spouse who is sanctified for a believing spouse. But the context plainly tells us he is talking about sanctified, saved people. Can you in good conscience decide that even though 'sanctified' means a saved person all the way up to vs. 29, it suddenly without explanation means an unsaved sanctified person in vs. 29? I can't. I'm too honest to tell somebody that.

When God says, through the author, that a sanctified, saved person who sins willfully in a trampling on the blood of Christ in unbelief has no sacrifice remaining for that sin and only has the Judgment of God's enemies to look forward to that pretty well convinces me that osas is NOT true. One has to create another 'not really' interpretation to keep this from being the obvious non-osas passage that it is.
We (Gods children) are sanctified positionally through the blood of Christ covering us.

We (Gods children) are sanctified daily through His works in us.


What "you've been told" by others doesn't apply to anyone but those who would agree with what was said.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
3,421
847
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Agree.
I can add to the list... disgusting, reprehensible, irresponsible...
Lol, continuing to believe is not disgusting and reprehensible.
If it is then the Bible teaches disgusting and reprehensible theology.
I showed you the passages that exhort and warn believers to keep believing.
Go ahead and argue the famous osas argument that it's believing for other than salvation purposes.....it's still the necessity to keep believing, the very thing you say is disgusting.

it actually deserves censure I think.
Jesus did not feel the need to do that.
Why do you?
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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but if we have been persuaded its true, Do we not use our will to follow that which we have been persuaded? or to decide that while yes I am persuaded, It will effect what I desire over here, so I chose this desire over this other truth,
Completely agree.. but not an act of the will initially.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,394
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Lol, continuing to believe is not disgusting and reprehensible.
If it is then the Bible teaches disgusting and reprehensible theology.
I showed you the passages that exhort and warn believers to keep believing.
Go ahead and argue that it's believing for other than salvation purposes.....it's still the necessity to keep believing, the very thing you say is disgusting.


Jesus did not feel the need to do that.
Why do you?
Again not be truthful to what I was actually referencing.:cautious:
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
3,421
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The wicked servant fell on his knees before his master, asking him to be patient with him and he will pay back everything. (vs. 29) The wicked servant did not ask his master to forgive his debt.
He did, because Jesus said that later in the Parable, but even if we go with the osas version of the Parable, the servant really was forgiven, and then that forgiveness was taken away. But osas is sure free gifts can't and won't ever be taken back and so salvation can not be lost. Osas has to insert another 'not really' doctrine into the Parable to make it so the servant who lost his gift of forgiveness was 'not really' forgiven in the first place. It does that with a LOT of scriptures. No honest person could swallow that in good conscience.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,338
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heb 10

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

____

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


(vs 10 "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all)



22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

_________

23-23Not a warning but encouragement to His children who are sanctified and perfected forever through CHRIST


_________



24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

_________


26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
_____________

If you truly believe this is saying willful sin will make you lose the once and for all forever sacrifice of sin, you must also believe if you sin once on purpose you lost salvation forever.... He sat down, also read hebrews 6


_______

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
________

We are His children... not adversaries.... like vs 13 who He will make His footstool AFTER SITTING DOWN and perfecting us forever through Jesus

_______

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


____________


Romans 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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But this is the kind of sin that is forgivable when we confess them to God upon getting knowledge of that sin.

The kind of sin that leads to grave danger is willful sin.
Those who are saved, will be seen as righteous as Jesus is righteous having His righteousness and not thier own in regards to justification.🤦‍♂️


Our relationship with God is not like a job with a probation period, it is a new birth where He raises His children using encouragement AND chasteneing.
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
1,236
445
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Thats why it is dangerous to put urselves under rules.
You put yourself under those rules when you break them. Rules were made for rule breakers. If you’re a non-smoker, it hardly matters wether you notice that rule or not when you enter an establishment; because it will not be POSSIBLE for you to break that rule.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,338
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Again not be truthful to what I was actually referencing.:cautious:
That is the main tactic those who can't be honest can use to try and fight against the truth.

They need to adjust the arguments of others enough to call it untrue then attempt to have the "truth" after knocking down their own version of what someone else believes.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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False. I am and she hasn't, along with others. You hate Good News and proclaim your love of it. In the last days there are mockers.
What are you twelve? You actually wrote that sentence being a grown man who professes faith in Jesus Christ? Once again your words convict you of being a false prophet.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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No sir.

You are adding that assertion.

Tell me, ye that DESIRE TO BE UNDER the law (Galatians 4:21).

Paul did not say, “tell me, ye that would ADD works”
What do you think being under the law is?

And here is what Paul said. Just to be clear. He did say works!

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

why do you think your works are any different or more salvic than theirs?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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But this is the kind of sin that is forgivable when we confess them to God upon getting knowledge of that sin.

The kind of sin that leads to grave danger is willful sin.
How can you confess a sin you do not even know you have committed?

Sorry but this makes no sense

The only unforgivable sin is to reject the gospel of Jesus Christ. ie, to blasphmene the HS (it is he who convicts, teaches, and draws us to him, to reject christ is to call the HS a liar)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You put yourself under those rules when you break them. Rules were made for rule breakers. If you’re a non-smoker, it hardly matters wether you notice that rule or not when you enter an establishment; because it will not be POSSIBLE for you to break that rule.
rules were made for sinners.

I am not a sinner, I am a justified, blood purchased Child of God who has been given the righteousness of Christ.

The rules you desire to follow condemn you here you stand, How you can look at them and not fall on your face in shame and fear is beyond my comprehension,
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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If ye CONTINUE in my word, THEN are ye my disciples indeed (John 8:31).

If you fail to continue at some point, you will cease being his disciple.
To continue in His word isn't a performance issue but a way of life. Living by faith.

We aren't saved by our level of performance nor our level of fulfilled "discipleship".

We were saved already while yet sinners and even sapplings He abides in are just as safe as full trees.