Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

Thanks for your enlightenment. The account in Mathew is clearly talking about ones who believed they had faith in Christ and were doing works in his name and in demonstration of their faith in him. By Jesus rejection of these ones I believe he is emphasising 2 things: 1. He is showing that ’Saying’ Lord Lord - in other words declaring we know Jesus and believe in him is not enough. 2. Jesus also stressed in these verses that what we ‘DO’ matters to him and to his Father. Clearly whatever the ones referred to in Mathew were doing - (and please notice they said they were doing powerful works in Jesus name) - these works were not acceptable to Jesus. Why? Because they obviously were not in accord with his Fathers will. That is why Jesus will say to such ones (notice Jesus said ‘Many will say to me in that day‘-future tense) he does not know them. Believing and doing should go hand in hand. Jesus makes clear that saying we believe has to be supported by works in demonstration of that belief and such works that are in accord with his Fathers will. If you care to read my others posts you will see I cite James 2. James makes the same point about faith being dead if it does not have works.

All this has nothing to do with believing that works can earn us salvation Or that the blood of Christ is not sufficient. It has to do more with having a living faith. Having a living faith involves living no longer for ourselves but for him who died for us and in obedience to his commands.

He is showing that ’Saying’ Lord Lord - in other words declaring we know Jesus and believe in him is not enough.

Wrong......... the very fact they coupled "their works" with their belief demonstrates they never believed.

There person who who trusts in Christ alone obeys completely the will of the Father to believe in Jesus Christ alone for eternal salvation.

 

[John146]

If they died with no sacrifice, they died in sin, and dies lost..

Maybe they did. Maybe that’s why God made a way each time for it to be rebuilt. Btw, the reason the temple was destroyed each time was because of their disobedience and turning to idol worship.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe they did. Maybe that’s why God made a way each time for it to be rebuilt. Btw, the reason the temple was destroyed each time was because of their disobedience and turning to idol worship.

So Daniel died lost. As did Jeremiah, and all the people of God who died while the temple lay in ruins..

This says alot.

ps. the temple was destroyed because God said it would in Lev 26 As the final form of discipline on the nation for not obeying his commands.

 

[John146]

So Daniel died lost. As did Jeremiah, and all the people of God who died while the temple lay in ruins..

This says alot.

Nope, they were pictures of saints who would not worship an image....future tribulation type. Why does the book of Daniel align with Revelation?

 

[John146]

So Daniel died lost. As did Jeremiah, and all the people of God who died while the temple lay in ruins..

This says alot.

ps. the temple was destroyed because God said it would in Lev 26 As the final form of discipline on the nation for not obeying his commands.

Ok, let’s get to the term twelve tribes...how does the Bible define this term. When we understand this term, we understand the audience. By understanding the audience, it will help us to understand the doctrine it contains.

 

[tantalon]

EleventhHour, is in a place of knowledge where a lot of men are lacking in scriptural insights. Listen men: maybes, could be, perhaps, might be, what I believe, etc. will not cut it. Doctrinal differences among men, are largely found in the New covenant, and that BECAUSE of a lack of knowledge through STUDY. Wisdom, knowledge and understanding is given by God, IF we have the zeal to search and ask for it. Read the instructions for such knowledge found in Proverbs 2: 1-9. The Bible is God's instruction book and teaching for spiritual growth, learning, and later rewards, and for the Christian, is what it is all about.

 

[Judges1318]

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

"are not ye my work in the Lord?" - 1 Corinthians 9:1

"13 ...the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." - 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

14 ...we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus." - 2 Corinthians 1:14

As you can see, 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 has nothing to do with being able to have dead, works-less faith, yet still be saved when Jesus comes back.

 

[Judges1318]

I’ll take that as a compliment, thank you.

Take it any way you want.
Just make sure you make it known that you say grace is a license to sin, if a believer so chooses to use it that way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope, they were pictures of saints who would not worship an image....future tribulation type. Why does the book of Daniel align with Revelation?

you cant have it both ways

You said sacrifice was required

They were unable to have sacrifice

Now your backtracking

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, let’s get to the term twelve tribes...how does the Bible define this term. When we understand this term, we understand the audience. By understanding the audience, it will help us to understand the doctrine it contains.

Ok lets go to dead faith, Mere belief

How does the bible define those terms?

(12 tribes has no bearing, Because a jew or gentile could have dead faith, and what happens to a jew because of dead faith will also happen to a gentile with dead faith)

were those people who had dead faith saved?

 

[VCO]

Do you know why? Sins could be forgiven with those sacrifices but not taken, washed away. The best they could do is end one up in Abraham’s bosom.

James 2:10 (HCSB)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails in one point, is guilty of ⌊breaking it⌋ all.


THAT IS WHY THAT IS AN UNTRUTH. They WOULD BE GUILTY OF WAY MORE than One Bull or Lamb Sacrifice could handle. IT IS SUPPOSED TO DRIVE THEM TO THE MESSIAH, like PAUL:

Romans 7:24 (HCSB)
24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this dying body?

 

[John146]

"are not ye my work in the Lord?" - 1 Corinthians 9:1

"13 ...the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." - 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

14 ...we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus." - 2 Corinthians 1:14

As you can see, 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 has nothing to do with being able to have dead, works-less faith, yet still be saved when Jesus comes back.

Part of our labor is leading people to Jesus. But there’s more to our labor. Consider 2 Corinthians 5.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[John146]

Take it any way you want.
Just make sure you make it known that you say grace is a license to sin, if a believer so chooses to use it that way.

That’s the argument you fall back on?🤦‍♂️

 

[John146]

you cant have it both ways

You said sacrifice was required

They were unable to have sacrifice

Now your backtracking

Is Daniel a picture of a tribulation saint? Not bowing to the image? Can you not see this?

 

[John146]

Ok lets go to dead faith, Mere belief

How does the bible define those terms?

(12 tribes has no bearing, Because a jew or gentile could have dead faith, and what happens to a jew because of dead faith will also happen to a gentile with dead faith)

were those people who had dead faith saved?

Paul says to the body of Christ, yes, faith alone saves, no works. Works do not justify nor prove anyone to be in Christ. You can have a life of good works but be lost and headed for hell.

 

[John146]

Ok lets go to dead faith, Mere belief

How does the bible define those terms?

(12 tribes has no bearing, Because a jew or gentile could have dead faith, and what happens to a jew because of dead faith will also happen to a gentile with dead faith)

were those people who had dead faith saved?

Who are the twelve tribes scattered abroad? The body of Christ? Christian Jews? Please tell me who you think they are?

 

[VCO]

Lol, I’ve heard this teaching many times. Trying their best to put a square peg into a round hole.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16 (NIV)
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[John146]

1 Corinthians 2:9-16 (NIV)
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

Yes, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. Now, using scripture, in all of it’s references, who are the twelve tribes?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is Daniel a picture of a tribulation saint? Not bowing to the image? Can you not see this?

Did Daniel have sacrifices for his sin so they could be forgiven, As well as ALL other people of God in the same time period?

I am not just talking about Daniel. I am talking about ALL jews alive and died before a new temple was built

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul says to the body of Christ, yes, faith alone saves, no works. Works do not justify nor prove anyone to be in Christ. You can have a life of good works but be lost and headed for hell.

You did not answer my question

James said their faith was dead (literally lifeless or non existent)

Does dead faith, mere belief save?

or not?