Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Lafftur

Lafftur

Senior Member
#139,541
Apr 18, 2017
6,896
3,636
113
#139,541
@oyster67 - do a Bible search on the word "salvation" before you believe that salvation can be lost. Please research the word salvation...

God doesn't want us striving in our own strength to obtain salvation, we can't do it. God has to do it for us.

Even good works have to be done by the Holy Spirit in us...the fruit we bear is the Fruit of the Holy Spirit and the Gifts that we operate in are the Gifts of the Holy Spirit...IT IS NOT US, IT IS GOD IN US....because He loves us....
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#139,542
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#139,542
Lafftur said:
Whoa, again! Hold on, I happen to also love oyster67....I know you are not surprised but, wait...he is my brother in Christ.....

Oyster67, let's talk about this....:unsure:

Any one that is IN CHRIST will NOT end up in hell. Of course, Christ has the keys to Hell anyways so, Christ can get them out if they end up there but, wait.......

Listen, it comes down to our souls being restored.....we need the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to renew our minds so we can know the perfect Will of God and power to do it.

Please do not think that people that are saved can lose their salvation......:cry:
Click to expand...
SO.....someone that peddles a losable, self maintained salvation by using Hebrews 10 out of context is a BROTHER in Christ......nuff said!!!!
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#139,543
Nov 20, 2018
23,754
8,606
113
#139,543
oyster67 said:
The Bible is not a book of lies.

Hebrews 10
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Click to expand...
That chapter (in fact that entire book) pertains to a very specific audience under very specific circumstances. Check into some good commentaries and sort it out. There are things going on behind the scene that you need to be aware of before setting forth any doctrinal suppositions.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#139,544
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#139,544
Lafftur said:
Salvation CANNOT be lost.
Click to expand...
Agree completely, He will never forsake us, but the Bilble is clear; some will forsake Him, even after they were sanctified and had tasted the goodness of His grace and mercy. This is what the Bible says.
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

Senior Member
#139,545
Apr 18, 2017
6,896
3,636
113
#139,545
dcontroversal said:
SO.....someone that peddles a losable, self maintained salvation by using Hebrews 10 out of context is a BROTHER in Christ......nuff said!!!!
Click to expand...
dc, oyster67 is a sweetheart! Instead of damning him for what he believes, help him....

oyster67, you are loved by God, He saved you, not to lose you. You must believe that your salvation is in Christ ALONE. Receiving Christ, He now KEEPS YOU ABIDING IN HIM. We don't, HE KEEPS US ABIDING. :love:
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#139,547
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#139,547
cv5 said:
That chapter (in fact that entire book) pertains to a very specific audience under very specific circumstances. Check into some good commentaries and sort it out. There are things going on behind the scene that you need to be aware of before setting forth any doctrinal suppositions.
Click to expand...
It applies to you and I, here and now.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#139,548
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#139,548
Lafftur said:
dc, oyster67 is a sweetheart! Instead of damning him for what he believes, help him....

oyster67, you are loved by God, He saved you, not to lose you. You must believe that your salvation is in Christ ALONE. Receiving Christ, He now KEEPS YOU ABIDING IN HIM. We don't, HE KEEPS US ABIDING. :love:
Click to expand...
John 15
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#139,549
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#139,549
Lafftur said:
dc, oyster67 is a sweetheart! Instead of damning him for what he believes, help him....

oyster67, you are loved by God, He saved you, not to lose you. You must believe that your salvation is in Christ ALONE. Receiving Christ, He now KEEPS YOU ABIDING IN HIM. We don't, HE KEEPS US ABIDING. :love:
Click to expand...
Who are the many that come before JESUS THAT he rejects and denies entrance into the kingdom?

A. They claim him as LORD
B. They claim to do many works in his name
C. They claim to cast out demons in his name

So let us deduce facts....PAUL was clear....ANYONE that peddles SAVED BY FAITH BUT Finished, topped of, embellished with any SELF EFFORT OR WORKS = FALSE Gospel with NO POWER TO SAVE.....there is 1 gospel that has power to save....HIS gospel does not equate to the ONE that has power.....in the END HE MUST MAINTAIN IT.....that is false regardless of how he spins it
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#139,551
#139,551
oyster67 said:
The Bible is not a book of lies.

Hebrews 10
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Click to expand...
All sin was dealt with at the cross...that is the hard truth deal with it.

The work of Jesus is a completed work... how can you be saved unless this is true.

And lastly Hebrews needs to be understood in context as @dcontroversal already stated....disingenuous to pull out a passage from a complex letter.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#139,552
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#139,552
Out of context scriptures applied to salvation will take more people to hell then Drugs, Booze and Sexual Immorality combined!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#139,553
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#139,553
oyster67 said:
John 15
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Click to expand...
Pull up another verse in context that SAYS MEN cast other MEN INTO HELL? We will wait

and yet again a salvation loser YANKS A VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT to peddle a LOSABLE salvation....the context is BEARING FRUIT NOT SALVATION

GET some honesty man
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#139,554
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#139,554
dcontroversal said:
Who are the many that come before JESUS THAT he rejects and denies entrance into the kingdom?

A. They claim him as LORD
B. They claim to do many works in his name
C. They claim to cast out demons in his name

So let us deduce facts....PAUL was clear....ANYONE that peddles SAVED BY FAITH BUT Finished, topped of, embellished with any SELF EFFORT OR WORKS = FALSE Gospel with NO POWER TO SAVE.....there is 1 gospel that has power to save....HIS gospel does not equate to the ONE that has power.....in the END HE MUST MAINTAIN IT.....that is false regardless of how he spins it
Click to expand...
Completely agree that salvation is not maintained by good works.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#139,555
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#139,555
oyster67 said:
The Bible is not a book of lies.

Hebrews 10
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Click to expand...
Jews always regarded salvation as a future event, that will take place when Jesus returns to usher them into the promised kingdom.

That is their blessed hope, the concept of being saved right now is alien to them. Thus they see their task as repenting now and making sure they do well in the midst of trials so that they can be considered worthly to be saved when Jesus returns.

If you read Hebrews to Revelations, that is commonly spoke of. They were expecting the Tribulation to come very soon.

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#139,557
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#139,557
EleventhHour said:
All sin was dealt with at the cross...that is the hard truth deal with it.

The work of Jesus is a completed work... how can you be saved unless this is true.

And lastly Hebrews needs to be understood in context as @dcontroversal already stated....disingenuous to pull out a passage from a complex letter.
Click to expand...
Nothing complex about any of it. What part are you having trouble with?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#139,559
#139,559
oyster67 said:
Nothing complex about any of it. What part are you having trouble with?
Click to expand...
Of course you deny complexity ...yet in your misguided reading scripture becomes one big contradictory mess.

I have trouble with your understanding which is wrong.

Hebrews actually affirms eternal security and a final sacrifice for all sin...that is how I know you do not get it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.