Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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We need to tell d this because he claimed no one is reading my posts.
More proof that you obviously cannot understand English or are just to dense or obstinate to be honest....

No one BUYS your drivel or is listening to it.....where do you see the word read in that post....

You have no honesty at all!!
 
May 19, 2020
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And who determines who these are? Stone, you must look at reality here. Not all who cry, “ Lord Lord” will be recognized by the Lord as His.

I can remember as a non believer crying out to God......”Nothing” absolutely nothing.

Looking back as I am now born again......the crying didn’t come from my heart.
God is so clever..I believe my heart wasn’t right......
Even as a non believer he was working in me...how else would he have woo/drawn me to him.
Praise His Holy Name DorothyMae.
 
May 19, 2020
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Why does the Bible speak of quenching the Holy Spirit? Why does the Bible talk of the Holy Spirit departing from a man?

Jackrosie, I know the OSAS doctrine. It is not found in scripture so those who believe it can only repeat the doctrine. One even quoted to me a verse and didn’t notice it was in the command form meaning we must DO something.

You know, just like my marriage, I believe I need to love someone (God) and cultivate that relationship (with Him it stands upon obedience) with all that the relationship calls for to be secure.

Let me ask, if I may, do you believe you are required to love God as He defines that to be in order to be his?
Sorry DorothyMae.....I misunderstood your last question..God Loves us ...we don’t know how to love God as a non believer...when he takes up residence in our hearts....then our spirit recognises that Love....

My Spirit fell in love with his.....we are one of his....when God chooses not when we choose.

Keep searching DorothyMae God Loves it.....oh how i searched for God as a non believer and didn’t even know it..not until I became born again.
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
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I don't need a "book" post written to tell me anything about the "meaning" of God's gift of salvation and how it works? There will be consequences for those who preach false doctrine against the Work of God unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

2 Corinthians 5:21 “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

Acts 16:30-31 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Unlike OSAS’s, I do not need to quote Scriptures out of their God-given context to falsely create the impression that they teach OSAS. However, these Scriptures—even when read out of context—do not in any way suggest that Christians cannot lose their salvation. Moreover, we ALL agree in justification by faith—that is NOT the issue! The issue is the very many “warning passages” in the New Testament concerning our Salvation—and why God chose to repeatedly warn Christian concerning the potential loss of thier salvation.


Many OSAS’s dislike my posts—but none of them has ever been able to refute any of my data because the data that I post has been “fact checked” over and over for decades by some of the most brilliant and knowledgeable people of the 20th and 21st centuries—and no errors have been found! OSAS’s automatically reject the truth in my posts because they have been conditioned to believe in OSAS and against the historical doctrine of conditional security—a doctrine that very few of them have ever studied and many fewer of them understand. They do not understand it because they refuse to study it.

The doctrine of OSAS is one of the most dangerous and pernicious doctrines to have ever been taught because if it is true, the Bible was written by incompetent people with such terrible writing skills that no one was able, for 1,500 years, to understand even what it teaches about salvation. And, of course, such a book could not possibly be inspired Scripture. Furthermore, if the church was radically wrong in its understanding of what the Bible teaches about salvation, we have no reason to think that that the church is able, even today, to understand what the Bible says about the second coming of Christ or any other any other Christian doctrine. These are not mere opinions—they are objective and incontrovertible facts.

Cor. 10:1. For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
2. and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3. and all ate the same spiritual food;
4. and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
5. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
7. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.”
8. Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
9. Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
10. Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. (NASB, 1995)
 
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Unlike OSAS’s, I do not need to quote Scriptures out of their God-given context to falsely create the impression that they teach OSAS. However, these Scriptures—even when read out of context—do not in any way suggest that Christians cannot lose their salvation. Moreover, we ALL agree in justification by faith—that is NOT the issue! The issue is the very many “warning passages” in the New Testament concerning our Salvation—and why God chose to repeatedly warn Christian concerning the potential loss of thier salvation.


Many OSAS’s dislike my posts—but none of them has ever been able to refute any of my data because the data that I post has been “fact checked” over and over for decades by some of the most brilliant and knowledgeable people of the 20th and 21st centuries—and no errors have been found! OSAS’s automatically reject the truth in my posts because they have been conditioned to believe in OSAS and against the historical doctrine of conditional security—a doctrine that very few of them have ever studied and many fewer of them understand. They do not understand it because they refuse to study it.

The doctrine of OSAS is one of the most dangerous and pernicious doctrines to have ever been taught because if it is true, the Bible was written by incompetent people with such terrible writing skills that no one was able, for 1,500 years, to understand even what it teaches about salvation. And, of course, such a book could not possibly be inspired Scripture. Furthermore, if the church was radically wrong in its understanding of what the Bible teaches about salvation, we have no reason to think that that the church is able, even today, to understand what the Bible says about the second coming of Christ or any other any other Christian doctrine. These are not mere opinions—they are objective and incontrovertible facts.

Cor. 10:1. For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
2. and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3. and all ate the same spiritual food;
4. and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
5. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
7. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.”
8. Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
9. Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
10. Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. (NASB, 1995)

It does state in the bible that only a born again will go to heaven.

Can you show me where it states in the bible ...that it states.that a “born again” can lose their salvation....not the word faith.

The word “Born Again “.....show me those words?..that a “born again” can lose their salvation....good luck on that one.
 
May 19, 2020
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Nowhere in scripture does it state Once Saved Always Saved.

I even ended up agreeing with those words...osas.

So I am dropping those words..because they cause division and a lot of confusion.

I am born again...I will see the kingdom of Heaven....nowhere in scripture does it state that a born again can lose their salvation.

So for me...I’m done with the words OSAS.

I am Born Again and Heaven Bound.......that is what the Holy Spirit has testified to my spirit.

Now... someone show me scripture where it states that a born again is not going to Heaven?

Also show me scripture that states a “BORN AGAIN” will lose their salvation.?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Nowhere in scripture does it state Once Saved Always Saved.

I even ended up agreeing with those words...osas.

So I am dropping those words..because they cause division and a lot of confusion.

I am born again...I will see the kingdom of Heaven....nowhere in scripture does it state that a born again can lose their salvation.

So for me...I’m done with the words OSAS.

I am Born Again and Heaven Bound.......that is what the Holy Spirit has testified to my spirit.

Now... someone show me scripture where it states that a born again is not going to Heaven?

Also show me scripture that states a “BORN AGAIN” will lose their salvation.?
You must understand, to the Jews, they have no concept of being born again immediately when they receive Christ, unlike us.

To them, they are only finally saved when they are ushered into the promised kingdom.

If you read 1 Peter, 1 John, James for example, you can see them preaching this. They are to look forward to Jesus 2nd coming, but before he comes, there will be the years of Jacob's trouble as prophesied in the OT, which we know of as the great tribulation.

Those years are to test their faith, whether or not they will endure to the end.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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That statement might be one of the craziest that I have ever heard on Christian chat.
Next thing you're going to be telling us is that God asked you for some advice.
I was wondering the same...
Who can know the mind of God ?
...xox...
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
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It does state in the bible that only a born again will go to heaven.
No, it does not state that. The Bible says, “Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.’”

Can you show me where it states in the bible ...that it states.that a “born again” can lose their salvation....not the word faith.
Can you show me where in the Bible it states that Jesus is one of the three persons in the Trinity? Show me those words!


The Bible is not a toy to play with. The Bible is the word of God, and He uses the words that He, not you, chooses.

Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. (NASB, 1995)

Up until the 16th century, this passage was universally interpreted as teaching that a Christian could lose his salvation, and the large majority of Bible scholars today still hold to that position. Indeed, this passage of Scripture gives us the most detailed description of what it means to be saved that we find anywhere in the Bible, and the end of these saved persons who subsequently fall away from the Christian faith is eternal damnation in the fires of hell. This was also the doctrine of our earliest Baptist forefathers before some Baptists heard a brand new doctrine that had been recently conceived by some men in Europe, and spread this new doctrine among their Baptist brothers causing it to take over like a firestorm.


The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews wrote his Epistle using the terminology and phraseology of the very early Church. Therefore, in order to accurately interpret the Epistle to the Hebrews, it is essential to have a solid background in the writings of the very early Church and the terminology and phraseology that they used.

The phrase in verse 4, “those who have once been enlightened,” is a reference to water baptism. Indeed, Justin Martyr (died in 165 A.D.) wrote that the term “enlightenment” was used as a synonym for water baptism of converts to Christianity and he uses the term “the enlightened one” for a person who has been baptized. And the Peshitta, an ancient Syriac translation of the Greek New Testament, renders (when translated into English) the phrase in verse 4, “who have gone down into baptism.”

The phrase in verse 4, “have tasted of the heavenly gift,” was variously interpreted during the first 1500 years, but it was ALWAYS interpreted as describing a born-again Christian. Some, for example, saw it to be a reference to the Eucharist; others saw it to be a reference to the teaching of Christ in John 6:31-58. Still others saw it to be a reference to the forgiveness of sins; others saw it to be a reference to the blessings conferred upon the Christian believer.

The phrase in verse 4, “and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” is an obvious reference to receiving the Holy Spirit, something that, in the New Testament, happens EXCLUSIVELY to those who have been saved.

The phrase in verse 5, “and have tasted the good word of God,” is a clear reference to the Christian’s experience of hearing the word of God preached and taught and the consequential experience of it in his life as a believer.

The phrase in verse 5, “and the powers of the age to come,” is a reference to the miracles that were performed by the Apostles and other Christians as a foreshadowing of the kingdom to come, and to the other blessings that Christians experience now in part but shall experience in their fullness in the future kingdom.

The phrase in verse 6, “and then have fallen away,” can be properly interpreted only to be speaking of falling from grace and the Christian faith, something that can NOT happen until AFTER a person is saved.

The phrases in verse 6, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame,” tell us of the absolutely horrendous consequence of a Christian falling from grace, making the death of Christ on the cross for his sins to be of no effect. This passage expressly speaks of a person who has heard the Gospel, believed it, was saved and baptized, repented of his sins, and enjoyed the blessing of being a born-again Christian—but who subsequently chose to reject Christ and return to his sins. And the fate of such a person could not possibly be any worse—it is “impossible to renew them again to repentance.” Most obviously it is not impossible to renew an unsaved person to repentance if they have repented but not been born again and then fall back into sin. Therefore, the person spoken of has necessarily been born again but has fallen away from the Christian faith. And the born-again Christian who, of his own free will, chooses to reject the Christ who redeemed him is beyond redemption and damned to the fires of hell for eternity.

Verses 7 & 8 are an analogy used to support the author’s statements. Just as the ground which once brought forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled received a blessing from God, and the ground that now yields thorns and thistles is worthless and ends up being burned, so the Christian which once brought forth good fruit unto God but who now brings forth bad fruit ends up being burned in the fires of hell.

Verse 9 tells us that the author has been warning his Christian readers about things that do not accompany salvation, things that happen to Christians who fall away from the faith. Nonetheless, he is reassuring them that that he does not expect them to fall away, as some others had done, but is convinced of better things concerning them, and things that, in their case, accompany salvation, even though he felt that he needed to warn them of the horrendous consequences of apostasy from the Christian faith.

These words were VERY clearly understood until the 16th century when a French politician came along and redefined them to suit his new and novel doctrines—including “The perseverance of the saints” from which all (there are today many of them) of the doctrines of OSAS evolved. Most fortunately, only a relatively small but very vocal minority of the church was tricked by the politician whose works have been translated into more than 100 languages.
 
May 19, 2020
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Thank you,Sagart.....I am born again..so heaven bound.

Not sure why you copy and pasted all of that.....if you are born again it is very easy to understand...the Lord doesn’t testify to the brain.....he testifies to a believers heart.that they are his child.

Nothing complicated about being born again...so why make it so.....you either are.....or you ain’t.

Did you know that God looks at the HEART?

Or did you think it was the volume of knowledge you have in your brain?

Of course scripture is very important.....but God didn’t come to me through scripture....as I had never read a bible before being saved.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Some come to believe by watching true believers defend the truth. This is not as much because of the arguments but from the character of the speakers. Those who hurl abusive words do not impress the truth of their argument as much as the side that refrains from ad hominem.

Abusive words ..... you are the abusive one.......you abuse and distort the scripture and truth.

Obvious self aggrandizement is far from impressive either like "I know God"
 
May 19, 2020
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We need to tell d this because he claimed no one is reading my posts.

I came on here as a guest and saw dcontroversal post to you....and he did say that......he must have deleted it....because it is no longer here.....I’m sure admin can check that one out for you.
Actually his post is still there....he said no one listens to your dribble.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
The phrase in verse 6, “and then have fallen away,” can be properly interpreted only to be speaking of falling from grace and the Christian faith, something that can NOT happen until AFTER a person is saved.
Once again you show you do not know what "falling from grace" means... it is not losing salvation.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I came on here as a guest and saw dcontroversal post to you....and he did say that......he must have deleted it....because it is no longer here.....I’m sure admin can check that one out for you.
Seriously... how far will you go to malign someone who has done nothing but try to set on the right path.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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What do you do when you lie like right here and Jesus has not atoned for your present and future sins?
Yes, In fact it says right here that Jesus has atoned for all present and future sins:

Heb 10:14
For by one offering, He has perfected for all time those being sanctified.

10:16: This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17: And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
 
May 19, 2020
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That is why I have him on ignore....his scripture is spot on.

But his “attitude stinks” like the other 4 I have on ignore....
But every so often I take a peek.....haaaaaaa....
I may even unignore them.....because some of the crap they say about you...like the making fun of you..
Doesn’t penetrate any more....
My skin has toughened up....or should that be heart..lol.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
That is why I have him on ignore....his scripture is spot on.

But his “attitude stinks” like the other 4 I have on ignore....
But every so often I take a peek.....haaaaaaa....
I may even unignore them.....because some of the crap they say about you...like the making fun of you..
Doesn’t penetrate any more....
My skin has toughened up....or should that be heart..lol.
Well, maybe while you have him off ignore you can find that statement you have accused him of making?