Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
No, I do not receive your answer just as you did not receive my question.

But if we just apply the verses from the bible and not our own doctrine...you will lose
any debate with me
.
Sure.....and ask me if I care........Pride and a haughty spirit go before fall.....yo have already given your hand and set yourself up for a fall....another cake taker....
 
Last edited:

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
I think I'm tired from the previous battle.

Can't think of what this means. later peoples.
 

FGT

Banned
May 26, 2017
334
0
0
Sure.....and ask me if I care........
I had rather say this to you...

John 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I am thinking that deeds are good works or evil works. What do you think?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I had rather say this to you...

John 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I am thinking that deeds are good works or evil works. What do you think?
I believe it's the intentions of the heart...do you do things for yourself and your glory or for God and because of the love that flows from Him through your heart?
 
B

Burninglight

Guest
....if both are genuinely saved both will be received one in honor and the other in shame yet received...!
Well, I have to tweak what I said. IMHO, both will be saved; one will receive rewards, but the other will suffer loss. The Scripture doesn't say suffer shame! Christ died to makes us perfect and unashamed. It just doesn't sound like heaven to be in shame.
 

FGT

Banned
May 26, 2017
334
0
0
I believe it's the intentions of the heart...do you do things for yourself and your glory or for God and because of the love that flows from Him through your heart?
I am thinking it is exactly what is written word for word.

John 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I do not change the wording in the verses to fit what I want to believe.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I answered the question......receive it or not pal....

....if both are genuinely saved both will be received one in honor and the other in shame yet received...one with works of gold, silver and precious stones...the other with works of wood, hay and stubble yet saved yet so as thru the fire.....

If the latter or both have not genuinely trusted into Christ both are cooking.....

Your game will not work with me....no matter how you slice, dice and attempt dia words games to make a point or not....!
Neither is said to love Jesus because He first loved them....so neither sound saved but God knows folks hearts.

Folks judge externally. God judges internally.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I am thinking it is exactly what is written word for word.

John 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I do not change the wording in the verses to fit what I want to believe.
Explain then how does one "doeth truth"?

If you do "good deeds" with evil intentions...is it good or evil?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
I had rather say this to you...

John 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I am thinking that deeds are good works or evil works. What do you think?
The context is clear...deeds can be either......and let me ask you.....Was Peter saved?

When he denied Jesus were his deeds evil or good?

Was David saved?

Were his deeds good or evil when he took Bathsheba and Killed Uriah?

Was Moses saved?

Were his deeds good or evil when he struck the rock twice in anger?

Was Daniel saved?

What characteristics would you apply to his deeds that caused him to confess his SINS? Good or evil?

Saved children of God sometimes fail, sin, and wander in the wilderness for a while either willingly or placed there by GOD to chastise them....So another question....

God chastens every son whom he RECEIVES....does he CHASTEN them because their deeds are GOOD or EVIL?
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
I believe it's the intentions of the heart...do you do things for yourself and your glory or for God and because of the love that flows from Him through your heart?
If the intention of the heart is to do good, but evil is actually done which matters more?
The intention or the action? Surely it is the action that is the fulfilment of the intention or
tells the lie of the intention.

Jesus told this parable

What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.
31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
Matt 21:28-31

Doing matters more than intentions. Intensions are just a desire but do not dictate
truth or delusion, it is the actions that show whether the intention was real or fake.
 

FGT

Banned
May 26, 2017
334
0
0
Explain then how does one "doeth truth"?

If you do "good deeds" with evil intentions...is it good or evil?
Can you do evil deeds with good intentions?

When you answer this question then you should know what is the truth.
 

FGT

Banned
May 26, 2017
334
0
0
The context is clear...deeds can be either......and let me ask you.....Was Peter saved?

When he denied Jesus were his deeds evil or good?

Was David saved?

Were his deeds good or evil when he took Bathsheba and Killed Uriah?

Was Moses saved?

Were his deeds good or evil when he struck the rock twice in anger?

Was Daniel saved?

What characteristics would you apply to his deeds that caused him to confess his SINS? Good or evil?

Saved children of God sometimes fail, sin, and wander in the wilderness for a while either willingly or placed there by GOD to chastise them....So another question....

God chastens every son whom he RECEIVES....does he CHASTEN them because their deeds are GOOD or EVIL?
Do you care?
 
B

Burninglight

Guest
Can you do evil deeds with good intentions?

When you answer this question then you should know what is the truth.
I think this is a waste of time to discuss all these hypothetical scenarios. Many people can have good intentions that are going to hell. The axiom "the road to hell is paved with good intentions' is true. Any good deed we do is filthy rags to God if it is not Christ doing the work through us by faith that works by love.
 

FGT

Banned
May 26, 2017
334
0
0
Any good deed we do is filthy rags to God if it is not Christ doing the work through us by faith that works by love.
The verse you quote was written before the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.
Maybe you should take that into consideration and put that into your doctrine?
 

Seekingfamily

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2017
395
13
0
I agree! You hit upon something that I thought about for years. Not understanding weakness, and how God was going to look at me for it!
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0

obedience to God is faith, but not as you think , it is trust in God,
sin is lack of of trust in God.
again, you can not say you trust God, when you do not even trust him to save you completely, let alone give him your sin areas
The word obedience means to do what someone tells you to do.
Short circuiting words by making them mean something else is just delusion, literally.
If you change the words from obedience to do what I tell you the meaning is maintained.
If you say the word in greek obedience means faith, you have redefined a langauge.
That is just rewriting scripture.

Sin is doing evil acts. It is sinful to not love God. But it does not say you must trust
God, because trust is part of love but not everything and all its aspects. Equally breaking
the 10 commandments imply a lack of love for God, but they highlight a consequence of
a lack of a relationship with God.

This is just a kind of brainwashing to justify heresy and apostacy, to resolve a cognitive
dissonance, which insists changing the meaning of scripture by not rewriting it, but by
changing the meanings of the language.

Now once you loose contact with reality, and you emotional desire to admit Gods word
is pre-eminent, this is the only way to keep a faith, while making it easy believism.

And it is true there is no argument against this, because it should not happen, and is so
flawed in its logic it is a joke.

All believers trust God for the resurrection of the dead, to save us and bring us into heaven.
Only a judgemental individual would disown another believer's faith, that it is invalid because
they hold one view of security in Christ and not another. God will save people according to His
will and not our theological views.

So this post dictates arrogance, condemnation, judgementalism, and rejection.
It redefines scripture and Christ words in a heretical, delusional way. They say the biggest lies
are the brazen lies, which commit the biggest errors in plain sight, because after this everything
changes. So the challenge for Gods people is to shine a light on this sin and blasphemy, and
simple throw it out as it deserves.

Those who continue as evil doers, and not repent and walk in righteousness, their end is death
and not life as Paul describes. The continual denial of Gods word and the obvious teaching of
the apostles confirms there position rather than reaffirming their inspiration.
 
B

Burninglight

Guest
The verse you quote was written before the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.
Maybe you should take that into consideration and put that into your doctrine?
Isaiah still pertains. Phil 3:8 ...For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own … It is still possible today to do works in our own strength apart from God that is like wood hay and stubble as Paul said. The filthy rags are self-righteous works. This still goes on today, but those that are led by the Spirit of God are not being self-righteous. "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law" ( Romans 3:28 ) People still think they are justified by their works and the law which is still filthy works to God. Just because it is before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean Isaiah doesn't pertain when it comes to doing works in our own strength. It is possible to be a saved Christian and be self-righteous or sin.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

FGT

Banned
May 26, 2017
334
0
0
Isaiah still pertains. Phil 3:8 ...For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own … It is still possible today to do works in our own strength apart from God that is like wood hay and stubble as Paul said. The filthy rags are self-righteous works. This still goes on today, but those that are led by the Spirit of God are not being self-righteous. "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law" ( Romans 3:28 ) People still think they are justified by their works and the law which is still filthy works to God. Just because it is before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean Isaiah doesn't pertain when it comes to doing works in our own strength. It is possible to be a saved Christian and be self-righteous or sin.
Is your body the temple of God?
If you say yes, then are the works of God
filthy as rags and self righteous?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
A Christian can be so busy doing good works that there is no time spent in the presence of the Lord. No hearing from the Spirit, so which would the works be birthed out of?

God or self?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
In the Kingdom...to believe is to obey. To not believe or unbelief is disobedience.

Faith is substance in the Spirit. Not of this world. It will produce something however, in this realm.

That is why it is so important to have the Word on our lips, out of our heart, changing our mind to His.