Not By Works
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Why have you not added verse 9 to the above quote?
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
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The latter part takes time, if possible at all. Would you agree? Or not?
For instance, a few months ago in a store I happened on a woman who was abusing her child right there in the store. I won't go into detail. However, I didn't love her. Myself and a store associate watched her do this twice in our sight and then berate the child for the abuse she'd received.
I'm not someone who stands idle and lets that happen so I said something to the effect, you're the one _________________, don't blame her for being hurt.
In that protracted encounter I actually used the scripture about loving your neighbor. I don't hate you I love you and your children which is why I said something.
It felt so false, so wrong, that my gut knotted. I didn't love her!I loved her kids enough to say something when she openly abused one of them twice and in public.
I felt sorry for her kids and was fully prepared to knock her to the moon if she laid hands on me. She even bragged that she trained her kids to be as violent as she was. But I looked into the eyes of her children after she said that. They were afraid, not hard core. (she had a record for violence and was diagnosed as mentally ill and had been committed and released numerous times, she told me during the coarse of this little encounter). I sure didn't love her. I felt bad that she had kids in the first place given her mental illness. Turns out, countless people take her to task for how she raises her kids. (also learned from that encounter with her)
Then I think about how Jesus was God and how God treated those he didn't appreciate in the old testament. He didn't love his enemies. He didn't show love to Israel's neighbors in many instances.
I think that is what leads to the confusion. God is suppose to be the role model for the Christian. The, do as I say not as I do, construct isn't a moral one. Why then are we to uphold a higher standard than our master?
For instance, a few months ago in a store I happened on a woman who was abusing her child right there in the store. I won't go into detail. However, I didn't love her. Myself and a store associate watched her do this twice in our sight and then berate the child for the abuse she'd received.
I'm not someone who stands idle and lets that happen so I said something to the effect, you're the one _________________, don't blame her for being hurt.
In that protracted encounter I actually used the scripture about loving your neighbor. I don't hate you I love you and your children which is why I said something.
It felt so false, so wrong, that my gut knotted. I didn't love her!I loved her kids enough to say something when she openly abused one of them twice and in public.
I felt sorry for her kids and was fully prepared to knock her to the moon if she laid hands on me. She even bragged that she trained her kids to be as violent as she was. But I looked into the eyes of her children after she said that. They were afraid, not hard core. (she had a record for violence and was diagnosed as mentally ill and had been committed and released numerous times, she told me during the coarse of this little encounter). I sure didn't love her. I felt bad that she had kids in the first place given her mental illness. Turns out, countless people take her to task for how she raises her kids. (also learned from that encounter with her)
Then I think about how Jesus was God and how God treated those he didn't appreciate in the old testament. He didn't love his enemies. He didn't show love to Israel's neighbors in many instances.
I think that is what leads to the confusion. God is suppose to be the role model for the Christian. The, do as I say not as I do, construct isn't a moral one. Why then are we to uphold a higher standard than our master?
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I think it is a non-sequitur to impart the notion that any well read Christian would argue people are able to do good deeds and save themselves.
I think also that the imparted implication in arguing that thinking people will infer that is what is meant when people refer to doing good deeds is a red herring. And a segway into the portal of easy believersm. Which is a term and a construct in this world and is exampled by those public figures we all witness who wear a cross and act like the devil.
We are to serve God as Christians. Those are our good deeds in his name, just as Jesus performed good deeds, healing, exorcism, etc... as that example.
And we shall be judged and rewarded for our deeds come our judgment.
Therefore, the idea that good deeds have absolutely no place in the walk of the Christian who is saved is a falsehood. A dangerous one. One that is exampled by those aforementioned public figures who wear diamond encrusted crosses on a diamond encrusted chain about their neck while having countless baby mama's, and entering drug rehab for the umpteenth time.
Just believe and your saved and that's all there is to it for the rest of your life!
Hogwash.
I think also that the imparted implication in arguing that thinking people will infer that is what is meant when people refer to doing good deeds is a red herring. And a segway into the portal of easy believersm. Which is a term and a construct in this world and is exampled by those public figures we all witness who wear a cross and act like the devil.
We are to serve God as Christians. Those are our good deeds in his name, just as Jesus performed good deeds, healing, exorcism, etc... as that example.
And we shall be judged and rewarded for our deeds come our judgment.
Therefore, the idea that good deeds have absolutely no place in the walk of the Christian who is saved is a falsehood. A dangerous one. One that is exampled by those aforementioned public figures who wear diamond encrusted crosses on a diamond encrusted chain about their neck while having countless baby mama's, and entering drug rehab for the umpteenth time.
Just believe and your saved and that's all there is to it for the rest of your life!
Hogwash.
Do you think that every person born from creation was created by God?
I think so as it's only God who can give life, just like Adam.
If we believe in the knowledge that God knows who will accept him he will love them then predestination?
If that's the case then why would God create people whom he knows will not accept them and hate them from doing so?
Sounds very cruel indeed.
Is God a person who hates those them that reject him or hates what they do?
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Loved is Agape love in the verse above.
So if God creates a human whom he knows will not accept him and therefore hates then he is basically a God of hate as well as a God of AGAPE.
Yet I think God hates the sins of those who reject him and have no regrets and not the person.
I think so as it's only God who can give life, just like Adam.
If we believe in the knowledge that God knows who will accept him he will love them then predestination?
If that's the case then why would God create people whom he knows will not accept them and hate them from doing so?
Sounds very cruel indeed.
Is God a person who hates those them that reject him or hates what they do?
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Loved is Agape love in the verse above.
So if God creates a human whom he knows will not accept him and therefore hates then he is basically a God of hate as well as a God of AGAPE.
Yet I think God hates the sins of those who reject him and have no regrets and not the person.
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Whilst I agree one has to ask the question did Jesus leave out any verses from the OT to make his point? Not sure
But if we guote the Bible and leave out verse does that not look suspicious?
Quote the verses 8-10 and expand on verse nine.
Just a simple example for me
Romans 8:28-29
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Verse 29 is often not quoted when people are struggling as a result of past experiences.
Spent time with a person once who was raped and someone told quoted v28.
She felt that God would make good that happened and she would be healed and wasn't and still had the pain and hurt.
I said to her let's read av29.
God cannot make good of what has happened to you because it was evil. God will not make evil good.
But what he can and will do is work good in what has happened to you.
That will involve healing forgiveness and so on in order to be conformed to the image of Jesus and as result he will use you to help others he will give you who are going through what you did.
For me that's the good works that
Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Jesus came in the flesh to set the prisoner free.
We are called to do the same.
My thoughts.
But if we guote the Bible and leave out verse does that not look suspicious?
Quote the verses 8-10 and expand on verse nine.
Just a simple example for me
Romans 8:28-29
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Verse 29 is often not quoted when people are struggling as a result of past experiences.
Spent time with a person once who was raped and someone told quoted v28.
She felt that God would make good that happened and she would be healed and wasn't and still had the pain and hurt.
I said to her let's read av29.
God cannot make good of what has happened to you because it was evil. God will not make evil good.
But what he can and will do is work good in what has happened to you.
That will involve healing forgiveness and so on in order to be conformed to the image of Jesus and as result he will use you to help others he will give you who are going through what you did.
For me that's the good works that
Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Jesus came in the flesh to set the prisoner free.
We are called to do the same.
My thoughts.
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I think a get what you are saying.
For me the issue is "I hated"
Why create a human to only hate them?
Is it not hate of what they do and thwrp reject them for what they do?
Did God hate Cain?
He rejected his sacrifice.
Easier is OT, the sacrifice of Jesus in NT.
For God so loved the world. Not hated some.
That's what I'm struggling with.
For me the issue is "I hated"
Why create a human to only hate them?
Is it not hate of what they do and thwrp reject them for what they do?
Did God hate Cain?
He rejected his sacrifice.
Easier is OT, the sacrifice of Jesus in NT.
For God so loved the world. Not hated some.
That's what I'm struggling with.
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