Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,543
925
113
Very sad when we do not get or understand that the payment for sin was paid for on the cross with the precious blood of Jesus.

There is nothing we can do to top up that payment as it was paid in full.
"It is finished (tetelestai)

Literally translated the word tetelestai means, “It is finished.” The word occurs in John 19:28 and 19:30 and these are the only two places in the New Testament where it occurs. In 19:28 it is translated, “After this, when Jesus knew that all things were now completed, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled, he said, ‘I thirst.’” Two verses later, he utters the word himself: “Then when he received the sour wine Jesus said, ‘It is finished,’ and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.”
The word tetelestai was also written on business documents or receipts in New Testament times to show indicating that a bill had been paid in full. The Greek-English lexicon by Moulton and Milligan says this:
“Receipts are often introduced by the phrase [sic] tetelestai, usually written in an abbreviated manner...” (p. 630). The connection between receipts and what Christ accomplished would have been quite clear to John’s Greek-speaking readership; it would be unmistakable that Jesus Christ had died to pay for their sins. (Bible.org)

https://www.ciu.edu/content/it-finished-look-greek
Amen, I remember a pastor once spoke on this word tetelestai. Thank you for posting. Insightful.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,485
3,845
113
I found a couple of interesting tools that can be very helpful.

One is a new free only BIBLE program, called theWord Beginner Version. Just type theWord.net and you will see the download button. It comes with KJV, ESV2011, HCSB, NET2 (probably similar to the NIV), ALREADY installed, then if you look in the Add Titles section, you can find FREE ALSO, ASV, WEB (World English Bible an updated English language Version of the ASV), and YLT, and a few more, that I have never heard of. There are lots of Titles you have to pay for, but you can see lots of free Bibles and some Free Dictionaries, and some Commentaries are free too.
Here is one way that I use this, during Covid-19, and it is outstanding:

1603428092885.png
Very easy to Following Along even though my Pastor has a habit of jumping around to multiple Cross References.

I also Rediscovered an old tool in NEW ways, and works on Window 10 It is a Graphics Editor called FASTSTONE IMAGE VIEWER, and it is free for home use. Yes it asks for donations once in awhile, and donated once. I have noticed that some of the CHRISTIAN SYMBOLS, are now FREE, so I downloaded those, and THEN shrunk them down tiny Icon size, and use them on my posts. Such as these:

1603429141010.png 1603429668766.png Ever have a Picture you wish it was the Opposite view? One click on the H key does it:

1603430036798.png 1603430227904.png
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,485
3,845
113
What is the best bible dictionary?
1603473520839.png

It is easier to tell you which is the WORST Dictionary. In My Opinion, Smith's Bible Dictionary is the worst by far. Way back I bought a couple of Smith's, way before computers in Hardback, and it is on my computer now. I do not remember EVER finding the Word that I was Looking for in SMITH's. It is like they only put simple words, that I already understand the meaning in it.

The First Bible Dictionary I will always pull up is HOLMAN's Illustrated Bible Dictionary. It is easier to show you WHY, I think it is the Best, so here is what it says on Repentance:


1603475569514.png

REPENTANCE


Change of mind; also can refer to regret or remorse accompanying a realization that wrong has been done or to any shift or reversal of thought. In its biblical sense repentance refers to a deeply seated and thorough turning from self to God. It occurs when a radical turning to God takes place, an experience in which God is recognized as the most important fact of one’s existence.


Old Testament The concept of a wholehearted turning to God is widespread in the preaching of the OT prophets. Terms such as “return,” turn,” or “seek” are used to express the idea of repentance.


In Amos 4-5 the Lord sends judgment in order for the nation to return to Him. Corporate repentance of the nation is a theme in Hosea (Hos. 6:1; 14:2) and the result of Jonah’s preaching to Nineveh (Jon. 3:10). Classic calls to repentance are found in Ezek. 18 and 33 as well as Isa. 55. The shift toward an emphasis on individual repentance can be seen in Ezek. 18.


New Testament Repentance was the keynote of the preaching of John the Baptist, referring to a complete turn from self to God. A note of urgency is attached to the message, “The kingdom of heaven has come near!” (Matt. 3:2 HCSB). Those who were prepared to make such a radical reorientation of their lives demonstrated that by being baptized (Mark 1:4). This complete redirection of their lives was to be demonstrated by profound changes in lifestyle and relationships (Luke 3:8-14).


The emphasis upon a total life change continues in the ministry of Jesus. The message of repentance was at the heart of His preaching (Mark 1:15). When describing the focus of His mission, Jesus said, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance”(Luke 5:32 HCSB).


The call to repentance is a call to absolute surrender to the purposes of God and to live in this awareness. This radical turning to God is required of all people: “Unless you repent, you will all perish” (Luke 13:3). Those who had witnessed the ministry of Jesus, the reality of God, and His claims on their lives faced serious jeopardy if they failed to repent. Jesus warned of serious consequences for those where His ministry had been rejected: “He proceeded to denounce the towns where most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent” (Matt. 11:20 HCSB). On the other hand, for the one sinner who repents, there is great “joy in heaven” (Luke 15:7). In His final words to the disciples, Jesus demanded that the same message of repentance He had preached would be preached to all nations (Luke 24:47).


The term remained in use as the early church began to take shape. The preaching in the book of Acts contains the call to repentance (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 8:22). On the one hand, Paul’s discourse at Athens reveals God as the one who “commands all people everywhere to repent” (17:30 HCSB). On the other hand, repentance is shown to be the result of the initiative of God: “God has granted repentance resulting in life to even the Gentiles” (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:24-26). The abundance of NT references makes clear that repentance is an essential element in the salvation experience. In response to the call of God in one’s life, there must be repentance, that is, the willful determination to turn from a life of sin and self-rule to a life ruled by God and lived in His righteousness. Repentance can be said to have occurred when someone has been convicted of the reality of their personal sinfulness, rejects and renounces that life of sin, and turns to God through faith in Jesus Christ. Repentance is so central that when Paul summarized his ministry he could say, “I testified to both Jews and Greeks about repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus” (Acts 20:21 HCSB). The experience of repentance precedes salvation (2 Pet. 3:9).


While the majority of calls to repentance are directed to unbelievers, repentance sometimes refers to believers. Paul wrote of a letter sent to the Corinthians which caused them grief but which ultimately led them to repentance (2 Cor. 7:8-13). Several times in the letters to the churches in Revelation, repentance is called for (Rev. 2:5,16,21-22; 3:3,19), in order that these believers and churches might bring their lives into greater conformity to the will of God. Individual believers, as well as churches, must constantly engage in self-examination, allowing the Spirit of God to point out areas where change is needed. Repentance is more than just remorse. See Confession; Conversion; Faith; Kingdom of God; Sackcloth.


Clark Palmer


Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary.

As you can see, you get MUCH More than a simple definition with HOLMAN's, and each Author that worked on a particular word, actually signed it. But if that is what you want, try I would say try EASTON's Illustrated Dictionary, and you will get a much shorter definition.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,408
1,878
113
North Carolina
View attachment 222153

It is easier to tell you which is the WORST Dictionary. In My Opinion, Smith's Bible Dictionary is the worst by far. Way back I bought a couple of Smith's, way before computers in Hardback, and it is on my computer now. I do not remember EVER finding the Word that I was Looking for in SMITH's. It is like they only put simple words, that I already understand the meaning in it.

The First Bible Dictionary I will always pull up is HOLMAN's Illustrated Bible Dictionary. It is easier to show you WHY, I think it is the Best, so here is what it says on Repentance:


View attachment 222154

REPENTANCE


Change of mind; also can refer to regret or remorse accompanying a realization that wrong has been done or to any shift or reversal of thought. In its biblical sense repentance refers to a deeply seated and thorough turning from self to God. It occurs when a radical turning to God takes place, an experience in which God is recognized as the most important fact of one’s existence.


Old Testament The concept of a wholehearted turning to God is widespread in the preaching of the OT prophets. Terms such as “return,” turn,” or “seek” are used to express the idea of repentance.


In Amos 4-5 the Lord sends judgment in order for the nation to return to Him. Corporate repentance of the nation is a theme in Hosea (Hos. 6:1; 14:2) and the result of Jonah’s preaching to Nineveh (Jon. 3:10). Classic calls to repentance are found in Ezek. 18 and 33 as well as Isa. 55. The shift toward an emphasis on individual repentance can be seen in Ezek. 18.


New Testament Repentance was the keynote of the preaching of John the Baptist, referring to a complete turn from self to God. A note of urgency is attached to the message, “The kingdom of heaven has come near!” (Matt. 3:2 HCSB). Those who were prepared to make such a radical reorientation of their lives demonstrated that by being baptized (Mark 1:4). This complete redirection of their lives was to be demonstrated by profound changes in lifestyle and relationships (Luke 3:8-14).


The emphasis upon a total life change continues in the ministry of Jesus. The message of repentance was at the heart of His preaching (Mark 1:15). When describing the focus of His mission, Jesus said, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance”(Luke 5:32 HCSB).


The call to repentance is a call to absolute surrender to the purposes of God and to live in this awareness. This radical turning to God is required of all people: “Unless you repent, you will all perish” (Luke 13:3). Those who had witnessed the ministry of Jesus, the reality of God, and His claims on their lives faced serious jeopardy if they failed to repent. Jesus warned of serious consequences for those where His ministry had been rejected: “He proceeded to denounce the towns where most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent” (Matt. 11:20 HCSB). On the other hand, for the one sinner who repents, there is great “joy in heaven” (Luke 15:7). In His final words to the disciples, Jesus demanded that the same message of repentance He had preached would be preached to all nations (Luke 24:47).


The term remained in use as the early church began to take shape. The preaching in the book of Acts contains the call to repentance (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 8:22). On the one hand, Paul’s discourse at Athens reveals God as the one who “commands all people everywhere to repent” (17:30 HCSB). On the other hand, repentance is shown to be the result of the initiative of God: “God has granted repentance resulting in life to even the Gentiles” (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:24-26). The abundance of NT references makes clear that repentance is an essential element in the salvation experience. In response to the call of God in one’s life, there must be repentance, that is, the willful determination to turn from a life of sin and self-rule to a life ruled by God and lived in His righteousness. Repentance can be said to have occurred when someone has been convicted of the reality of their personal sinfulness, rejects and renounces that life of sin, and turns to God through faith in Jesus Christ. Repentance is so central that when Paul summarized his ministry he could say, “I testified to both Jews and Greeks about repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus” (Acts 20:21 HCSB). The experience of repentance precedes salvation (2 Pet. 3:9).


While the majority of calls to repentance are directed to unbelievers, repentance sometimes refers to believers. Paul wrote of a letter sent to the Corinthians which caused them grief but which ultimately led them to repentance (2 Cor. 7:8-13). Several times in the letters to the churches in Revelation, repentance is called for (Rev. 2:5,16,21-22; 3:3,19), in order that these believers and churches might bring their lives into greater conformity to the will of God. Individual believers, as well as churches, must constantly engage in self-examination, allowing the Spirit of God to point out areas where change is needed. Repentance is more than just remorse. See Confession; Conversion; Faith; Kingdom of God; Sackcloth.


Clark Palmer


Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary.

As you can see, you get MUCH More than a simple definition with HOLMAN's, and each Author that worked on a particular word, actually signed it. But if that is what you want, try I would say try EASTON's Illustrated Dictionary, and you will get a much shorter definition.

Thank you much. I'll try both.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,485
3,845
113
What is the best bible dictionary?
Here is EASTON's Illustrated Dictionary, on the same word REPENTANCE:

Quote:
Repentance
There are three Greek words used in the New Testament to denote repentance.


(1.) The verb metamelomai is used of a change of mind, such as to produce regret or even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word is used with reference to the repentance of Judas (Mat 27:3).


(2.) Metanoeo, meaning to change one's mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge. This verb, with (3) the cognate noun metanoia, is used of true repentance, a change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised.


Evangelical repentance consists of (1) a true sense of one's own guilt and sinfulness; (2) an apprehension of God's mercy in Christ; (3) an actual hatred of sin (Ps 119:128; Job 42:5, 6; 2Co 7:10) and turning from it to God; and (4) a persistent endeavour after a holy life in a walking with God in the way of his commandments.


The true penitent is conscious of guilt (Ps 51:4, 9), of pollution (Ps 51:5, 7, 10), and of helplessness (Ps 51:11; Ps 109:21, 22). Thus he apprehends himself to be just what God has always seen him to be and declares him to be. But repentance comprehends not only such a sense of sin, but also an apprehension of mercy, without which there can be no true repentance (Ps 51:1; Ps 130:4).


Illustrated Bible Dictionary: And Treasury of Biblical History, Biography, Geography, Doctrine, and Literature. :End Quote

The Illustrated part is certain words, mean more if you have an Illustration to look at, such as TEMPLE, Herod's, so along with the writing they include several pictures such as this:

1603738219701.png

1603739042744.png

No, it is obvious this Artist did not read Josephus' description of the Temple. Josephus said the Temple faced East and when he stood in the East Gate, during a Festival, he could see the Curtain of the Holy of Holies, because all the Gates were open and lined up. The middle gate is too far to the left, and NO East Gate and no North Gate. There are several Different artists that drew pictures of the TEMPLE, but only a very few pictured it with all the gates dead center as Josephus stated.

This Model below, in Jerusalem, has the Gates lined up, but the Roman Fortress Antonia, is ALL WRONG. Josephus said it was 600 feet between the northern outer wall of the Temple Complex and the southern wall of Fortress Antonia. Plus it was the home of the ROMAN 10th Legion which consisted of 10,000 troops and support staff, NOT a Cohort. See more on the THIRD TEMPLE NEWS thread.
1603741640675.jpeg
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,485
3,845
113
I never feel as though I do enough "works" for our Lord. I'm not sure I ever have.

I know you KNOW that works NEVER add to your Salvation. They are an expression of LOVE for the LORD, and I think it is normal to Not feel that OUR LOVE, can measure up to HIS LOVE. And I think HE KNOWS THAT, because of this Scripture:

Matthew 13:3-9 (HCSB)
3 Then He told them many things in parables, saying: “Consider the sower who went out to sow.
4 As he was sowing, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and ate them up.
5 Others fell on rocky ground, where there wasn’t much soil, and they sprang up quickly since the soil wasn’t deep.
6 But when the sun came up they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered.
7 Others fell among thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them.
8 Still others fell on good ground and produced a crop: some 100, some 60, and some 30 times ⌊what was sown⌋.
9 Anyone who has ears should listen!”


I think those who produced 100% are all or almost all MARTYRS, while the rest of us are less than that.
 
May 22, 2020
89
17
8
New age religion types wish to demean our doing things for Christ out of love and respect as...works...and then accuse us of trying to earn our salvation . We can never do enough for Christ.

Their real objective is to discourage us from doing those things ...because those things are righteous...to do.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,408
1,878
113
North Carolina
I know you KNOW that works NEVER add to your Salvation. They are an expression of LOVE for the LORD, and I think it is normal to Not feel that OUR LOVE, can measure up to HIS LOVE. And I think HE KNOWS THAT, because of this Scripture:

Matthew 13:3-9 (HCSB)
3 Then He told them many things in parables, saying: “Consider the sower who went out to sow.
4 As he was sowing, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and ate them up.
5 Others fell on rocky ground, where there wasn’t much soil, and they sprang up quickly since the soil wasn’t deep.
6 But when the sun came up they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered.
7 Others fell among thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them.
8 Still others fell on good ground and produced a crop: some 100, some 60, and some 30 times ⌊what was sown⌋.
9 Anyone who has ears should listen!”


I think those who produced 100% are all or almost all MARTYRS, while the rest of us are less than that.
Oh I absolutely know I can never do enough "works" to get saved NOR can I do enough to maintain salvation. That is why I know salvation is a one time deal and it it by the mercy and Grace of God Almighty we are saved and kept that way. I just feel sometimes as if I have not nor do I do enough for the Lord because of What He had done for me.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,408
1,878
113
North Carolina
New age religion types wish to demean our doing things for Christ out of love and respect as...works...and then accuse us of trying to earn our salvation . We can never do enough for Christ.

Their real objective is to discourage us from doing those things ...because those things are righteous...to do.
Don't know about New Age religion but I do know that we cannot ever Do Enough for the Lord. My problem is that I don't believe I personally have done very much for Him. When I consider all He has done for me and saved me for eternity, I should at least have been a better instrument for Him.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,485
3,845
113
Oh I absolutely know I can never do enough "works" to get saved NOR can I do enough to maintain salvation. That is why I know salvation is a one time deal and it it by the mercy and Grace of God Almighty we are saved and kept that way. I just feel sometimes as if I have not nor do I do enough for the Lord because of What He had done for me.
1603855182253.png

And Jesus and the Father KEEP our Salvation.

John 10:28-30 (HCSB)
28 "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are One."

The expression No one
most definitely includes your SELF.

2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves
to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,787
3,724
113
Don't know about New Age religion but I do know that we cannot ever Do Enough for the Lord. My problem is that I don't believe I personally have done very much for Him. When I consider all He has done for me and saved me for eternity, I should at least have been a better instrument for Him.
Hi precious sister.

I get what you are saying. Many of us probably believe we have not done very much for and should do better.

For me I am like that and for me it is a struggle.

If we look at the greats of the Bible we see that they had weaknesses.

When I look at David

1 Samuel 13:14
14 But now your kingdom shall not continue. The Lord has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and the Lord has commanded him to be commander over His people, because you have not kept what the Lord commanded you.”

We all know the tragic things and sinful things that this man David did but God still considered him a man after his own heart.

Acts 13:22
22 And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.’

David's mistakes and sins were many but David still sought God in order to be like him.

Psalms 63:8
8 My soul follows close behind You;
Your right hand upholds me.

Psalms 42:1-2

1 As the deer pants for the water brooks,
So pants my soul for You, O God.
2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God.
When shall I come and appear before God?

Psalms 25:11
11 For Your name’s sake, O Lord,
Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.

Psalms 119:34
34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law;
Indeed, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

We tend to beat ourselves up because we feel we haven't done enough or doing enough.

Truth is that the only work God wants from us is to believe in Jesus.
As a result when we do then we are like David, a man/woman after his own heart.

And as in Acts 13:22
A man after My own heart, who will do all My will.’

Wanting to be like Jesus is more important to God than doing works to be saved.
Our works do not save us but our faith in Jesus saves us.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,408
1,878
113
North Carolina
Hi precious sister.

I get what you are saying. Many of us probably believe we have not done very much for and should do better.

For me I am like that and for me it is a struggle.

If we look at the greats of the Bible we see that they had weaknesses.

When I look at David

1 Samuel 13:14
14 But now your kingdom shall not continue. The Lord has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and the Lord has commanded him to be commander over His people, because you have not kept what the Lord commanded you.”

We all know the tragic things and sinful things that this man David did but God still considered him a man after his own heart.

Acts 13:22
22 And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.’

David's mistakes and sins were many but David still sought God in order to be like him.

Psalms 63:8
8 My soul follows close behind You;
Your right hand upholds me.

Psalms 42:1-2

1 As the deer pants for the water brooks,
So pants my soul for You, O God.
2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God.
When shall I come and appear before God?

Psalms 25:11
11 For Your name’s sake, O Lord,
Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.

Psalms 119:34
34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law;
Indeed, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

We tend to beat ourselves up because we feel we haven't done enough or doing enough.

Truth is that the only work God wants from us is to believe in Jesus.
As a result when we do then we are like David, a man/woman after his own heart.

And as in Acts 13:22
A man after My own heart, who will do all My will.’

Wanting to be like Jesus is more important to God than doing works to be saved.
Our works do not save us but our faith in Jesus saves us.

I totally agree. While I know I should be doing more for the Kingdom of God, I know that I must keep in mind that doing works can also allow "pride" to enter in and for that we must always be on guard. At least that is a thought I just had.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,408
1,878
113
North Carolina
While it is good we want to show thankfulness for the gift of our salvation and to "work" for the Lord, going about His work must be done with the right motive. That is a very important word to me, " motive." I question mine often. Does anyone else?