Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#149,541
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
#149,541
Got a Prayer request. I had to go to the Emergency Room yesterday, it was second time in a week and a half that I passed out or almost passed out. After running me through all kinds of tests, they concluded that it was a Heart Disease called Bundle Branch Block. I have known the Heart Disease runs in the family, but I have never heard of Bundle Branch Block. In it's worst stages, it will beat a 2 or 3 beats, and then it will PAUSE for a little while. If it pauses for to long, that is when I black out. They said I may need a pacemaker, if it gets worse. I just hope it gets a little better. I do not want drive a car till then. Yes that scares me, that I could have a passing out episode while Driving the car.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#149,542
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
#149,542
ForestGreenCook said:
I understand the inability of the natural man too understand the things of the Spirit, All of those seven scriptures you quoted in your post # 149,534 has reference to those that have been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and are not directed to the natural, unregenerate, man.
Click to expand...

You are confused, everyone of the is talking about a man then Does not have the Holy Spirit IN HIM, and may NEVER have the Holy Spirit in him. That is why I said your THEORY is leading you astray.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#149,543
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
#149,543
ForestGreenCook said:
I understand the inability of the natural man too understand the things of the Spirit, All of those seven scriptures you quoted in your post # 149,534 has reference to those that have been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and are not directed to the natural, unregenerate, man.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am glad you understood the 7 verses in my post 149,534, were intended to describe the spiritual man.

Here is your Post:
ForestGreenCook said:
Respectfully, I am sorry, but I cannot see that the scriptures you have quoted connects with the mind and heart of the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14.

I may have totally misunderstood you. So help me to understand what you were talking about. I do not remember saying heart in connection to 1 Cor 2:14. I already had this comparative study done to show that out of 14 English Versions, all are pretty much saying the exact same thing. I think the NET is the easiest to understand. I figured out what I had done, on a total different site, who was wanting to argue with me on the difference in WORDING between the various English Version. The page jumped back to Christian Chat, and I thought I was still on the other site. SORRY.


1 Corinthians 2:14 (NIV)
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (ASV)
14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NKJV)
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NRSV)
14 Those who are unspiritual do not receive the gifts of God's Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (ESV)
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NCV)
14 A person who does not have the Spirit does not accept the truths that come from the Spirit of God. That person thinks they are foolish and cannot understand them, because they can only be judged to be true by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NET)
14 The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (GW)
14 A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the teachings of God's Spirit. He thinks they're nonsense. He can't understand them because a person must be spiritual to evaluate them.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (YLT)
14 and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them, because spiritually they are discerned;

1 Corinthians 2:14 (ISV)
14 A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (BBE)
14 For the natural man is not able to take in the things of the Spirit of God: for they seem foolish to him, and he is not able to have knowledge of them, because such knowledge comes only through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (WEY)
14 The unspiritual man rejects the things of the Spirit of God, and cannot attain to the knowledge of them, because they are spiritually judged.

Now there are 14 translations of the BIBLE talking about the SAME IDENTICAL PERSON.
ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME TYPE OF MAN,
ALL are taking about a non-born again person,
ALL are taking about a non-spiritual person,
ALL are talking about a person that absolutely has no understanding about spiritually things and the Holy Spirit.
ALL are talking about a person that the HOLY SPIRIT HAS NOT ENTERED, and may not enter him or her, ever.


I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

If I have misunderstood you, PLEASE EXPLAIN.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#149,544
Jul 8, 2018
8,318
1,185
113
#149,544
VCO said:
Yes, I am glad you understood the 7 verses in my post 149,534, were intended to describe the spiritual man.

Here is your Post:
ForestGreenCook said:
Respectfully, I am sorry, but I cannot see that the scriptures you have quoted connects with the mind and heart of the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14.

I may have totally misunderstood you. So help me to understand what you were talking about. I do not remember saying heart in connection to 1 Cor 2:14. I already had this comparative study done to show that out of 14 English Versions, all are pretty much saying the exact same thing. I think the NET is the easiest to understand. I figured out what I had done, on a total different site, who was wanting to argue with me on the difference in WORDING between the various English Version. The page jumped back to Christian Chat, and I thought I was still on the other site. SORRY.


1 Corinthians 2:14 (NIV)
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (ASV)
14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NKJV)
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NRSV)
14 Those who are unspiritual do not receive the gifts of God's Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (ESV)
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NCV)
14 A person who does not have the Spirit does not accept the truths that come from the Spirit of God. That person thinks they are foolish and cannot understand them, because they can only be judged to be true by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NET)
14 The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (GW)
14 A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the teachings of God's Spirit. He thinks they're nonsense. He can't understand them because a person must be spiritual to evaluate them.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (YLT)
14 and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them, because spiritually they are discerned;

1 Corinthians 2:14 (ISV)
14 A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (BBE)
14 For the natural man is not able to take in the things of the Spirit of God: for they seem foolish to him, and he is not able to have knowledge of them, because such knowledge comes only through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (WEY)
14 The unspiritual man rejects the things of the Spirit of God, and cannot attain to the knowledge of them, because they are spiritually judged.

Now there are 14 translations of the BIBLE talking about the SAME IDENTICAL PERSON.
ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME TYPE OF MAN,
ALL are taking about a non-born again person,
ALL are taking about a non-spiritual person,
ALL are talking about a person that absolutely has no understanding about spiritually things and the Holy Spirit.
ALL are talking about a person that the HOLY SPIRIT HAS NOT ENTERED, and may not enter him or her, ever.


I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

If I have misunderstood you, PLEASE EXPLAIN.
Click to expand...
I am totally in tune with you. My wife gets frustrated with me at times, because I have a one track mind, and cannot multitask. that may have something to do with the fact that I am 86 years old.
 
star

star

Senior Member
#149,545
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
113
North Carolina
#149,545
ForestGreenCook said:
I commend you in turning your life around your study of the word.

Star, I do not mean to be disrespectful, but would like to explain the scriptures as I understand them in my attempt to consider that all scriptures must harmonize with each other in order to understand the truths within them.

Romans 10, to my understanding, has reference to the born again children of God.

Many other scriptures, and Greek interpretations of some words have to be considered.

Save, saved and salvation, according to Greek interpretation, means "deliver", "delivered", and "deliverance". There is an eternal deliverance and there are many deliverances that born again children of God experience as they sojourn here in this world.

There is a difference in the nation of Israel, and the house of Israel. "The house of Israel" is the house of Jacob, as God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel. Gen 33:28. All Israel is not of Israel, Rom 9:6. Jacob is representative of all of God's elect children, Rom 9:11.

When people are newly born again, they are but "babes in Christ" nurishing on the milk of the word, and gradually mature enough to have a knowledge of the righteousness of God explained in the doctrine of Jesus Christ

Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he (the Holy Ghost) teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little. (notice that the ones that are taught are already born again).

Romans 10; Paul's prayer is that the babes in Christ that have "a zeal of God", of the house of Israel (Jacob) might be delivered (saved) from their ignorance of the righteousness of God and to submit themselves unto the righteousness of God in their understanding of the doctrine that Jesus taught.

Rom, 10, verse 9, Confessing and believing, which is a product of a born again child of God, results in a deliverance here in this world.

When we are born again God exchanges our heart of stone to a heart of flesh, Esek 11:19. The stony heart of the unregenerate natural man cannot confess and believe in the things of the Spirit, because he cannot discern them and thinks them to be foolishness. 1 Cor 2:14.
Click to expand...

There are many verses in scripture other than what I posted which gives me assurance of my salvation and that assurance is that He has by His grace and mercy covered me with the Blood of Jesus and through my confession and acceptance in my heart of Jesus Christ. God is specific about the fact we are born again and saved ONLY because of His mercy and grace.

I have been a christian for 54 years. I am still growing and maturing but will never reach total maturity as a human being. However, I am no longer a babe in Christ.
 
star

star

Senior Member
#149,546
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
113
North Carolina
#149,546
VCO said:
Got a Prayer request. I had to go to the Emergency Room yesterday, it was second time in a week and a half that I passed out or almost passed out. After running me through all kinds of tests, they concluded that it was a Heart Disease called Bundle Branch Block. I have known the Heart Disease runs in the family, but I have never heard of Bundle Branch Block. In it's worst stages, it will beat a 2 or 3 beats, and then it will PAUSE for a little while. If it pauses for to long, that is when I black out. They said I may need a pacemaker, if it gets worse. I just hope it gets a little better. I do not want drive a car till then. Yes that scares me, that I could have a passing out episode while Driving the car.
Click to expand...
Very sorry to hear this VCO. Whatever it takes to make you healthy, go for it.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#149,547
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
#149,547
ForestGreenCook said:
I am totally in tune with you. My wife gets frustrated with me at times, because I have a one track mind, and cannot multitask. that may have something to do with the fact that I am 86 years old.
Click to expand...

I was beginning to think I was ready to check out. But this afternoon, I looked at a NEW MED, LANTUS, and insulin, and the side effects they put me on 2 weeks ago. I used to be on Levemir, and had no problems with it, except she thought it should be lower, but the side effects for Lantus appear to be causing most of my Problems. I will call my Pharmacist tomorrow, and let her decide.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#149,548
Jul 8, 2018
8,318
1,185
113
#149,548
star said:
Very sorry to hear this VCO. Whatever it takes to make you healthy, go for it.
Click to expand...
I am so sorry to hear of your heart ailment. You have been through a lot of misfortunes in your life, I pray that our great physician will see you through this set back.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#149,549
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
#149,549
star said:
Very sorry to hear this VCO. Whatever it takes to make you healthy, go for it.
Click to expand...
To day I did some checking my New LANTUS insulin, after Church on youtube. It is a live feed from my Church, because with COVID-19 I do not need to expose myself to that virus because it can cause blood clots, and with a Stroke history, I cannot risk it. So when I checked the LANTUS side effects, my Jaw Dropped Open. Most of the same symptoms that I have been having were on that LIST. I will call my VA Pharmacist tomorrow, and let her decide if she wants me back on Levemir. I will appreciate the Prayers.
 
P

peldom10

Banned
#149,552
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
#149,552
VCO said:
Got a Prayer request. I had to go to the Emergency Room yesterday, it was second time in a week and a half that I passed out or almost passed out. After running me through all kinds of tests, they concluded that it was a Heart Disease called Bundle Branch Block. I have known the Heart Disease runs in the family, but I have never heard of Bundle Branch Block. In it's worst stages, it will beat a 2 or 3 beats, and then it will PAUSE for a little while. If it pauses for to long, that is when I black out. They said I may need a pacemaker, if it gets worse. I just hope it gets a little better. I do not want drive a car till then. Yes that scares me, that I could have a passing out episode while Driving the car.
Click to expand...

Right or left bundle branch block?
Prayers included.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#149,554
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
#149,554
peldom10 said:
Right or left bundle branch block?
Prayers included.
Click to expand...

Left, but this New Insulin Lantus can cause many of the same symptoms. Could also be the combination of both. Will keep you posted.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#149,555
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
#149,555
VCO said:
Left, but this New Insulin Lantus can cause many of the same symptoms. Could also be the combination of both. Will keep you posted.
Click to expand...
I am feeling a little better. Now they think their may be 2 meds that the side effects may cause my heart condition to get worse, so they took both meds and replaced them with the old meds. I thought medicine is supposed to make you feel improved health. Not always. Now they are sending me to heart specialist.

Here is one of the oldest Prescriptions in the BIBLE.

1 Timothy 5:23 (HCSB)
23 Don’t continue drinking only water, but use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#149,556
#149,556
VCO said:
To day I did some checking my New LANTUS insulin, after Church on youtube. It is a live feed from my Church, because with COVID-19 I do not need to expose myself to that virus because it can cause blood clots, and with a Stroke history, I cannot risk it. So when I checked the LANTUS side effects, my Jaw Dropped Open. Most of the same symptoms that I have been having were on that LIST. I will call my VA Pharmacist tomorrow, and let her decide if she wants me back on Levemir. I will appreciate the Prayers.
Click to expand...
You have them bro
 
PC123

PC123

Banned
#149,557
Jun 22, 2020
1,231
740
113
Australia
#149,557
dcontroversal said:
It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Click to expand...

Yep, its pretty plain...

Salvation is gained by keeping the whole law—Faith without works is dead.

Ignore at your own risk
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#149,559
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
#149,559
1610477917274.png

I just ran across this, he is a Lebanese-American, that attended Maronite Christian Church. Yes it is a spin-off of the Catholics, but he certainly GOT THIS ONE RIGHT. (1883 - 1931)
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#149,560
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
#149,560
Khalil Gibran, 1883 - 1931, an Lebanese American Poet from the Maronite Christian Church, wrote these:





He seemed to specialized in short Poetry like these.



Now, I have read several of his poem, short poems. So of them are on Christian based, but the few that I chose to put on Christian Chat, certainly are GROUNDED in the WORD. He did not like being called a Philosopher.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.