Not By Works

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EleventhHour

Guest
Yep, its pretty plain...

Salvation is gained by keeping the whole law—Faith without works is dead.

Ignore at your own risk
Have you tried to keep the whole law?
How many fail points are allowed before one is disqualified?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,641
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Yep, its pretty plain...

Salvation is gained by keeping the whole law—Faith without works is dead.

Ignore at your own risk


If you look into it, that verse has nothing to with actual SALVATION. HE IS THE DEFINITION OF SALVATION, and you will quickly see it happened before the Beginning of TIME.


2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved usnot by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
So what does a dead person in that kind of faith MEAN ? ? ?

If you are SAVED, it has been that way before the WORLD BEGAN, and sence you were SAVED, then there has to be a CHANGE in Lifestyle Characteristics in your Human Spirit, that can be big clue that you really were SAVED before Time began. That Clue is we are born again Christians, we will WANT TO STRIVE to obey GOD, because we LOVE HIM and that is a way to LOVE HIM BACK, because HE FIRST AGAPE LOVED US. NOT to GET SAVED, nor to Maintain SALVATION, but to Agape LOVE HIM BACK. It says HE LOOKS ON THE HEART. WHY ? ? ? HE is looking for the MOTIVE for Obedience, and if it is NOT AGAPE LOVE, it is Worthless to GOD. It is Nothing but Wood, Hay, and Stubble at BEST, AND FITHY RAGS AT WORST.

Are we PERFECT AT OBEDIENCE? Never, but we are the one's who Strive to Obey out of Agape Love, and went we fail, we are the that willingly confess it as Sin. 1 John 1:9, means we are the one's that habitually confess each new sin we encounter in our LIVES.

I know you want to believe you are Sinless, but there are NO SINLESS CHRISTIANS. Dr. John MacArthur has said a number of times, "There are No Sinless Christians, but as a person matures spiritually he/she will sin less, and less, and less."

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.


Still not convinced? LET ME CONVINCE YOU.

Here is a sin that GOD TAKES VERY SERIOUSLY, and in fact James 2:10 was written for those who think they do not sin.

James 2:10 (NIV)
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Now here is HOW I choose to prove you, that you are SINNER just like the Rest of US.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


POSTED SPEED LIMIT
1610586113268.jpeg ONE MILE OVER - YOU ARE SINNING.


1610586250904.jpeg ONE FAILURE - YOU ARE SINNING.

ONE ILLEGAL PARKING VIOLATION - YOU ARE SINNING.


ONE OFFENSE - YOU ARE SINNING


TEXTING IN A CROSS WALK IS ILLEGAL - YOU ARE SINNING.

1610587986081.jpeg JAYWALKING IS ILLEGAL - YOU ARE SINNING

Shall I go one ? There are lots of Ordinances that I have not covered ?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
You obviously choose to ignore the extrinsic noise contribution to the theory.
Further I say not...... because for you to espouse it's application.... tells me much.
The fact that you cannot back up your assertions tells me even more.
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
605
319
63
Australia
If you look into it, that verse has nothing to with actual SALVATION. HE IS THE DEFINITION OF SALVATION, and you will quickly see it happened before the Beginning of TIME.


2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved usnot by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
So what does a dead person in that kind of faith MEAN ? ? ?

If you are SAVED, it has been that way before the WORLD BEGAN, and sence you were SAVED, then there has to be a CHANGE in Lifestyle Characteristics in your Human Spirit, that can be big clue that you really were SAVED before Time began. That Clue is we are born again Christians, we will WANT TO STRIVE to obey GOD, because we LOVE HIM and that is a way to LOVE HIM BACK, because HE FIRST AGAPE LOVED US. NOT to GET SAVED, nor to Maintain SALVATION, but to Agape LOVE HIM BACK. It says HE LOOKS ON THE HEART. WHY ? ? ? HE is looking for the MOTIVE for Obedience, and if it is NOT AGAPE LOVE, it is Worthless to GOD. It is Nothing but Wood, Hay, and Stubble at BEST, AND FITHY RAGS AT WORST.

Are we PERFECT AT OBEDIENCE? Never, but we are the one's who Strive to Obey out of Agape Love, and went we fail, we are the that willingly confess it as Sin. 1 John 1:9, means we are the one's that habitually confess each new sin we encounter in our LIVES.
Your talking about being predestined... If that is the case then our salvation is not up to us or anything that happens on this earth...
We aren't saved because we chose to believe in Christ, it was already predestined. So the two main views are wrong under that...
Could this be the case... Certainly... Will i entrench myself in that position. No cos its not conclusive, there is too much reasonable doubt...

I know you want to believe you are Sinless, but there are NO SINLESS CHRISTIANS. Dr. John MacArthur has said a number of times, "There are No Sinless Christians, but as a person matures spiritually he/she will sin less, and less, and less."
Na mate the complete opposite... Im fighting a spiritual war against Satan constantly and never would i dare try to raise myself to the level of Christ...

I just have a neutral position on the subject and don't see why i must choose one or the other based on what i see as a probability.
Im baptized and i have the faith in Christ. That all i need
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
605
319
63
Australia
The Holy Spirit was already with me i think but i had ignored it for so long...
When i finally realized it was the evil one that i had followed all that way my automatic reaction was to try and find God cos he must exist if Satan does.

Without the Holy Spirit already indwelling i don't think i would of been able to discern the evil one nor do i think i would have reacted that way, an instant automatic rejection of Satan and all his evil ways...

Im like Paul in Romans 7
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,641
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113
The Holy Spirit was already with me i think but i had ignored it for so long...
When i finally realized it was the evil one that i had followed all that way my automatic reaction was to try and find God cos he must exist if Satan does.

the Holy Spirit already indwelling i don't think i would of been able to discern the evil one nor do i think i would have reacted that way, an instant automatic rejection of Satan and all his evil ways...

Im like Paul in Romans 7



If you Came back, that is called a PRODIGAL, and the one that NEVER COMES BACK was never saved in the first place. He had a reason for you to experience life as a Prodigal, but the important thing, YOU CAME BACK.

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


Welcome Home, but don't leave again. Not sure their is enough time for you to come back twice.

We all can identify with Rom. 7. Like I said, "Welcome Home!"
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,641
3,913
113
Your talking about being predestined... If that is the case then our salvation is not up to us or anything that happens on this earth...
We aren't saved because we chose to believe in Christ, it was already predestined. So the two main views are wrong under that...
Could this be the case... Certainly... Will i entrench myself in that position. No cos its not conclusive, there is too much reasonable doubt...



Na mate the complete opposite... Im fighting a spiritual war against Satan constantly and never would i dare try to raise myself to the level of Christ...

I just have a neutral position on the subject and don't see why i must choose one or the other based on what i see as a probability.
Im baptized and i have the faith in Christ. That all i need

I Told you the TRUTH, that is what GRACE is ALL ABOUT.

JESUS DID IT ALL, ALL TO HIM I OWE.


Please come the REST of the Way HOME!

Romans 8:27-30 (ESV)
27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
605
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Australia



If you Came back, that is called a PRODIGAL, and the one that NEVER COMES BACK was never saved in the first place. He had a reason for you to experience life as a Prodigal, but the important thing, YOU CAME BACK.

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


Welcome Home, but don't leave again. Not sure their is enough time for you to come back twice.

We all can identify with Rom. 7. Like I said, "Welcome Home!"
Ye i know... The prodigal son is me...

U said...
"If you Came back, that is called a PRODIGAL, and the one that NEVER COMES BACK was never saved in the first place."

Ye cos i had thought that the Holy Spirit must have already been with me because there was no possible way that my own mind could of worked out what i did... It was a revelation, a realization that everything bad that has happened in my life wasn't a coincidence it was all the work of Satan... And the fact that i never for a second entertained the thought of continuing to be with Satan is profound i feel... It was a subconscious reaction.. "So Satan is real after all and look at what his done... I must find God"... Deep remorse soon followed...

So i was feeling that the Holy Spirit was already with me through baptism or it was predestined...
Your right about not having enough time to do another prodigal son lap but i feel like it would be impossible because of how much i despise Satan... I despise him so much i actually started to wonder weather or not it was healthy cos holding onto such resentment is damaging to the soul...

U said...
"He had a reason for you to experience life as a Prodigal"
Hmm... I never considered that. I appreciate that piece of info . I will surely spend time meditating on it...

U know, now whats happening in the world... Im actually in a good position despite having nothing... Iv learnt to be very resourceful, i don't need material goods and i find pleasure in the simple things now. I was dealing drugs and blowing money on sinful life 10 years ago... And cos i don't own a house or have any thing holding me back i decided to hit the road in my van which i turned into a camper... Im leaving in 3 weeks. If they do force the vax like im fearing then i'll be better prepared on the road to live off grid if i have to

I couldn't have done it if i was well off and established with a family. I couldn't have done it if covid came a few years ago... Even my short time in prison looks like may be helpful as well... Hmm, interesting point of view...

I appreciate your insight man... God Bless
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,641
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113
. . .
. . .
I just have a neutral position on the subject and don't see why i must choose one or the other based on what i see as a probability.
Im baptized and i have the faith in Christ. That all i need
1610619288635.png

Let's see if you have really been spiritually baptize, and if your faith is IN YOUR HEART and not just in your HEAD.

When you are Genuinely Baptized by the Holy Spirit, HE immerses you Human Spirit into the Spiritual Body of Christ.
Christian Water Baptism is not what it is talking about. That is not the Baptism that SAVES, it is only one of the first steps in your Christlike Walk, AFTER YOU ARE SAVED FOR REAL.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (HCSB)
12 For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

THAT IS THE BAPTISM THAT SAVES, Not climbing into a Baptistry or getting dunked in a River.

You say you HAVE FAITH, but what kind of FAITH.

James 2:19 (NASB)
19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

They only believe in what LIES BETWEEN THEIR EARS.
If you have never willingly surrender to JESUS out of Agape GODLY Love, in your HEART (Human Spirit); then you are not even SAVED. That is a work of the HOLY SPIRIT it says in 1 Cor. 12:3, NO ONE can say Jesus is LORD, of my life, ACCEPT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. Have you ever had a DEEP, DEEP REMORSE over you SIN that left you weeping and bawling like a baby. I cried for over two hours the night I was genuinely SAVED.

Romans 10:8-11 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess {not just profess it} with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."


You have to Had that Spiritual experience were you willing surrendered to HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER of your LIFE, before YOU can say it as a CONFESSION, and that comes from the HOLY SPIRIT, HIMSELF.
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
605
319
63
Australia
Let's see if you have really been spiritually baptize, and if your faith is IN YOUR HEART and not just in your HEAD.
Id rather not be judged by someone who is so keen to judge like u seem to be...
How about we leave the judging to our Lord?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,641
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113
Id rather not be judged by someone who is so keen to judge like u seem to be...
How about we leave the judging to our Lord?

Don't Worry, I am not the judging type, like Paul, I consider myself, the worst of Sinners. I am giving the tools for a Self Examination. The Devil loves to trick us, into thinking Head Knowledge, and Water Baptism is good enough.

1 Corinthians 11:28-29 (HCSB)
28 So a man should examine himself; in this way he should eat the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For whoever eats and drinks without recognizing the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,641
3,913
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How about a Russian Version of When The Rolls Are Called Up Yonder. And Look at the Boots the one gal is wearing. Stars and Stripes on the top half of the Boots.