Not By Works

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OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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So basically you are also saying that if I don't see a changed life in someone, in terms of good works, I can conclude he is not really saved?
Where does the Bible say that the intent or purpose of good works is that we go around and say “ this one is saved, and this one is not”?

James words are intended to be used in self examination, not judging others.

As Paul said “examine YOURSELVES...”
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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Where does the Bible say that the intent or purpose of good works is that we go around and say “ this one is saved, and this one is not”?

James words are intended to be used in self examination, not judging others.

As Paul said “examine YOURSELVES...”
So Do you still believe works are necessary for salvation then?
 

Phoneman-777

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Aug 3, 2019
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The man turned over to Satan, sleeping with his Fathers wife.
He was “among” them - willing to associate with an illegal, severely persecuted sect where even something so seemingly innocuous as burying deceased loved ones could get you busted and sentenced to death.

He was likely a backslider who Paul recognized needed the most effective wake up call God can provide: turning one “over to Satan” which can only mean prayer requests for God to allow negative consequences for sin to come.

And again, the operative word is “might”. The text doesn’t say he “will” he saved in the day of the Lord, it says “might” be saved in that day - or possibly lost in that day.
 

OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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So Do you still believe works are necessary for salvation then?
When did I say I believe that?

God saved me before I did any work whatsoever.

God keeps me in spite of myself.

If our works had any part in our salvation, we would split hell wide open, because all of our works are at least in part tainted by sin. Christ sanctifies, makes acceptable our works, just as the sprinkling of blood sanctified the altar.
 

OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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Not to mention, no matter how good we are, we miss the Mark by infinite light years. It is not of him that wills or runs, but of God who shows mercy. See also the Parable of the Pharisee and the Publican. No man may boast in God’s presence.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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So basically you are also saying that if I don't see a changed life in someone, in terms of good works, I can conclude he is not really saved?
What part of no fruit inspecting did you fail to grasp?

You are not God. You do not know what if any works that person did.

So if you see a person you think is not doing works, and determine he is lost. You would be judging something you are not qualified to judge
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Not to mention, no matter how good we are, we miss the Mark by infinite light years. It is not of him that wills or runs, but of God who shows mercy. See also the Parable of the Pharisee and the Publican. No man may boast in God’s presence.
Amen not of works

how many times is this said ?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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U didn't answer my question but anyway, u can continue this pointless debate with others. It doesn't interest me
It does otherwise you would not have responded.

I did answer your question by posting Bible verses from Corinthians 3.

As believers we will have good works and bad works. Do you agree?

Neither will save us. Do you agree?

Maybe it would be useful to qualify what we think works are.

The point I was trying to make is that you said we will not be saved by bad works and I was saying neither will good works get us saved.

I was trying to convey that works do not save us but faith in Jesus crucified, died, and risen and confess him as Lord is what saves us.

Bad works decrease and good works increase.
Sanctification.
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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What part of no fruit inspecting did you fail to grasp?

You are not God. You do not know what if any works that person did.

So if you see a person you think is not doing works, and determine he is lost. You would be judging something you are not qualified to judge
I was asking a question
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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When did I say I believe that?

God saved me before I did any work whatsoever.

God keeps me in spite of myself.

If our works had any part in our salvation, we would split hell wide open, because all of our works are at least in part tainted by sin. Christ sanctifies, makes acceptable our works, just as the sprinkling of blood sanctified the altar.
Alright then, thanks for clarifying that you believe in romans 4:5.

I do too.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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Alright then, thanks for clarifying that you believe in romans 4:5.

I do too.
Of course. I base my soul’s security on Romans 4:5. Romans 4:5 is the front door into the house. God wants us to Feel free to make the whole house our dwelling place. God’s grace is a bountiful palace. There’s so many rich blessings that lie behind the first door, so many other doors that lead deeper.

Nice chatting with you.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
We are more than capable of choosing to accept or reject salvation - and we do not lose our freedom of choice to either "abide in the Vine" or withdraw our surrender and go back to serving the world.

Love never compels, nor does it enslave.
Choice to choose yes. Choice to lose absolutely no way can we lose what Jesus Christ our Lord and the Holy Spirit of God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth has sealed us with.
 

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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No human can undo any "thing" which God Almighty has accomplished, sealed. To even believe such shows absolutely a lack of confidence in the Power of God.
 

Phoneman-777

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Choice to choose yes. Choice to lose absolutely no way can we lose what Jesus Christ our Lord and the Holy Spirit of God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth has sealed us with.
The "Seal of God" refers to being "marked" with an outward sign of identification such as Abraham's "sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith he had," and doesn't refer to being "sealed shut" inside an inescapable enclosure or circumstance, as you suggest. The words "sign" and "seal" are used interchangeably in Scripture.

Furthermore, you should know that Isaiah said, "Bind up the testimony, Seal (or "Mark") the law among My disciples", which means the Seal of God has to do with God's law --- isn't it interesting that in Revelation 14, those who have the Seal of God are keeping God's law, which means that those who get the Mark of the Beast must be breaking it, right?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Choice to choose yes. Choice to lose absolutely no way can we lose what Jesus Christ our Lord and the Holy Spirit of God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth has sealed us with.
The mere fact he thinks someone who has been truly born of God and experienced his true grace and forgiveness would willingly give God the finger and tell him to take his grace and do you know what with it. (As an old friend in of Mine used to argue) Just leads me to Believe he has never experienced it himself
 

Phoneman-777

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The mere fact he thinks someone who has been truly born of God and experienced his true grace and forgiveness would willingly give God the finger and tell him to take his grace and do you know what with it. (As an old friend in of Mine used to argue) Just leads me to Believe he has never experienced it himself
Once upon a time there was a group of individuals who loved God more than anybody in the history of the world...but for some inexplicable reason chose to turn their backs on Him.

The Bible calls them "fallen angels".

How foolish it would be for anyone to accuse them of never having experienced God's love, right or wrong?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I have a prayer request. I fell on ice and hurt my back very bad. Nothing broke, but it is extremely painful. Also 9 days ago, I had my 8th Stroke, but it seems I am okay, but it is seems nothing happen except a left arm went numb, my face and tongue went numb aslo. God Bless you all.
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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London
It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
James is turning in his grave :giggle:
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,458
16,364
113
Once upon a time there was a group of individuals who loved God more than anybody in the history of the world...but for some inexplicable reason chose to turn their backs on Him.

The Bible calls them "fallen angels".

How foolish it would be for anyone to accuse them of never having experienced God's love, right or wrong?
The Bible does not say they loved God

but her, you want to continue to think your righteous enough to earn Gods grace

feel,free