Not By Works

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May 12, 2017
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They were ultimately saved by the New Covenant, WHich is really nothing more than the Abraham covenant

Yes they lived and died under the law, Because jesus had not died yet. When jesus said it was finished, their salvation was complete.

If jesus did not die, they would have all died for eternity.
Jesus himself led captivity captive and was given the keys bro....they did not get saved under the new covenant...Jesus himself went on rescue mission....
 
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Ariel82

Guest
first you say he was saved by faith now its the new covenant...if you are saying it is one and the same thing, you need to read Hebrews....they lived and die under the law , but were saved by their faith, not the law, but were also not partakers of the promise...Heb 11.39-40 clearly says this
?????

Hebrews 11

39And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.


It talks about..

Hebrews 12
r.” 22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23and to the assemblya of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

****

Without Jesus there is no new Covenant. Without born again saints, there is no Mount Zion.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Jesus himself led captivity captive and was given the keys bro....they did not get saved under the new covenant...Jesus himself went on rescue mission....
Do you believe Jesus went to hell and rescued them?

I think Joyce Meyer teaches that.
 
May 12, 2017
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So your saying God did not KNOW abraham until he attempted to sacrificed his son.

We are talking about an OMNISCIENT God here,

Abraham had many exercises of faith between the time God declared him righteous, and the time he went to sacrifice his son. What about all of them?


Again, WOuld abraham have spent eternity with God if he died before he had a chance to offer issac.

God knew Abraham, He did not do it for Gods sake, He did and said it for abraham's sake. And for our sake, Look at the growth in Abraham's faith from Gen 15 up until Gen 22. An amazing growth, we woud never have seen if Gen 22 did not happen.
I am saying God was not at one with Abraham until he offered up Isaac. The word know in Gen 22.12 is not in the tense you are trying to fit into to support your argument. The Hebrew word for Know here is the same as man having intimacy with his wife or becoming one with her...

Until you are one with Jesus Christ you are just easy believing your way right into hell...and while you have a promise, there is no receiving the blessings of the inheritance until God is at one with you and you are at one with God...this is called Covenant relationship and illustrated perfectly through Abraham
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I don't need to redefine the word believe to teach the concepts you are attempting to insert into the word.

I just have to teach upon these verses.




1. God has given us ALL we need to live godly lives already.
2. Our Christian walk/life only begins with faith and ends with (we are mature when we gain) agape love....the ability to love and bless even our enemies as God loves the world so much He sent Jesus to die and redeem us.

There is no need to redefine faith or the word believe.

When I say to my child "I love you, do you believe me?" do I expect my child to prove anything to me or accept that what I say is true and trust me?
You don't believe Christ. Do you think He's lying to you?
You believe IN Christ. Difference.

No need to redefine faith or believe. When reading John 6:29 next time, try to figure out what believe means in that sentence.
You'll be surprised.

You're asking your child the wrong question.
The question is DO YOU BELIEVE IN ME?

Well. What do they do if the answer is YES?
Do they obey you, or do they not obey you?

Anyway, we are not God. God does not think as we do.
Do you think YOU are as holy and pure and just as God is?
Then you cannot think like He does.
The finite cannot understand the infinite.

God DOES demand some action from you. He DOES demand some proof that you love Him.
IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY MY COMMANDMENTS.
John 14:15
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jesus himself led captivity captive and was given the keys bro....they did not get saved under the new covenant...Jesus himself went on rescue mission....

He rescued me also. Just like he rescued them, On the cross.

Atonement, Does that mean anything to you?

How was abrahams sins atoned for? By animal sacrifice? Or by Jesus sacrifice?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am saying God was not at one with Abraham until he offered up Isaac. The word know in Gen 22.12 is not in the tense you are trying to fit into to support your argument. The Hebrew word for Know here is the same as man having intimacy with his wife or becoming one with her...

Until you are one with Jesus Christ you are just easy believing your way right into hell...and while you have a promise, there is no receiving the blessings of the inheritance until God is at one with you and you are at one with God...this is called Covenant relationship and illustrated perfectly through Abraham
Thats ok God said he was 1 with him in Gen 15. When he was reckoned righteous, By the way, WHos righteousness do you think was reckoned to Abraham? Since it was not his own,, And paul re-iterates that concept in romans 4.

You believe as you wish.

God does not make mistakes.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am saying God was not at one with Abraham until he offered up Isaac. The word know in Gen 22.12 is not in the tense you are trying to fit into to support your argument. The Hebrew word for Know here is the same as man having intimacy with his wife or becoming one with her...

Until you are one with Jesus Christ you are just easy believing your way right into hell...and while you have a promise, there is no receiving the blessings of the inheritance until God is at one with you and you are at one with God...this is called Covenant relationship and illustrated perfectly through Abraham

I have asked you three times, If abraham died before he had a chance to sacrifice his son, Would he spend eternity with God or apart from God.

Why is it you do not answer?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't know what Joyce Meyer teaches....the Bible proves it

No the bible proves God overlooked the sins of abraham and other OT peoples, until the redeemer came, When he made their payment in full.

Again, If jesus did not die, All OT saints would have perished forever. just like we would

The bible also proves Abraham was saved in Gen 15, By faith,, And made one with God at that very time.
 
May 12, 2017
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He rescued me also. Just like he rescued them, On the cross.

Atonement, Does that mean anything to you?

How was abrahams sins atoned for? By animal sacrifice? Or by Jesus sacrifice?


In the Mosaic law Atonement is the covering or pacifying of sin...not the forgiveness of...

IN the new covenant atonement is reconciliation...and that is not forgiveness
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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I believe all those that was preached to and believed was rescued from hell and taken to paradise . if not his going to hell and preaching served no purpose.
 
May 12, 2017
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No the bible proves God overlooked the sins of abraham and other OT peoples, until the redeemer came, When he made their payment in full.

Again, If jesus did not die, All OT saints would have perished forever. just like we would

The bible also proves Abraham was saved in Gen 15, By faith,, And made one with God at that very time.
EG, you love to keep people in the kiddie pool with you so you can splash them in the face...I was in the deep end touching bottom and back again 3x with you and it went right over your head...I am leaving you and kiddie pool alone now, because you obviously cannot go deep....peace bro...
 
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Ariel82

Guest
In the Mosaic law Atonement is the covering or pacifying of sin...not the forgiveness of...

IN the new covenant atonement is reconciliation...and that is not forgiveness
What is the difference between reconciliation and forgiveness?
 
May 12, 2017
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Thats ok God said he was 1 with him in Gen 15. When he was reckoned righteous, By the way, WHos righteousness do you think was reckoned to Abraham? Since it was not his own,, And paul re-iterates that concept in romans 4.

You believe as you wish.

God does not make mistakes.

I know many people who are think they have imputed righteousness that are not one with Jesus....
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I believe all those that was preached to and believed was rescued from hell and taken to paradise . if not his going to hell and preaching served no purpose.
Can you give me the scriptures that say that Jesus preached in hell?
 
May 12, 2017
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No the bible proves God overlooked the sins of abraham and other OT peoples, until the redeemer came, When he made their payment in full.

Again, If jesus did not die, All OT saints would have perished forever. just like we would

The bible also proves Abraham was saved in Gen 15, By faith,, And made one with God at that very time.
Covering of SIN is not overlooking it....
 
Apr 30, 2016
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What is the difference between reconciliation and forgiveness?
As usual, I'm answering for those reading along.
YOU probably already know.


Forgiveness is when someone does you a wrong. You might be uspet at first and you might not.
The relationship is broken. Then one day you decide that you need to forgive that person of whatever they did.
So you do forgive them.

That is forgiveness. It's something you do. But the relationship is still broken.

When the other person ALSO decides to forgive you, and tells you, and you shake hands and make up...
THAT is reconcilitation. Reconciliation repairs the broken relationship and restores it to the way it was originally.
 
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Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Reconciliation is one that returns back to God through forgiveness of their sins,. If there is no forgiveness ,then there is no reconciliation. God wants mankind to return to him as they were when he created Adam and Eve before the fall. He says he will reconcile ,take you back through his forgiveness of your sins.