Not By Works

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Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
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Are you reading Acts 21:19-25 literally?

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

They rejoiced at what God was doing among the Gentiles, and they reaffirmed in Acts 21:25 that Gentiles do not have to follow physical circumcision and the Law of Moses, as determined in Acts 15.

What they were unhappy about is that there are Jews who were listening in to Paul preaching to the Gentiles, Galatians 5:2

Galatians 5:2, KJV: "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

and some of these Jews were also following that same teaching (Acts 21:21), even though Acts 15 only exempted Gentiles, nothing was said by James, about whether Israel also needed to follow the Law, the latter was not even on the agenda.
I refer you back to my post before this one: it clearly shows Paul continued to show himself Jewish for the benefit of converting Jews, not to establish Dispensationalism. If he was trying to establish Dispensationalism, the Jews are in big trouble, because he told them "circumcision is nothting and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God"

Translation: "The Mosaic Law is done, but the Moral Law - the Ten Commandments - remains."
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I refer you back to my post before this one: it clearly shows Paul continued to show himself Jewish for the benefit of converting Jews, not to establish Dispensationalism. If he was trying to establish Dispensationalism, the Jews are in big trouble, because he told them "circumcision is nothting and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God"

Translation: "The Mosaic Law is done, but the Moral Law - the Ten Commandments - remains."
My point is to tell you, your conclusion, that "They were extremely happy with everything concerning Paul's Gospel success, including his instructions that those Jews should abandon the Mosaic Law, as evidenced by their rejoicing", is an incorrect reading of what went down in Acts 21:19-25
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
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My point is to tell you, your conclusion, that "They were extremely happy with everything concerning Paul's Gospel success, including his instructions that those Jews should abandon the Mosaic Law, as evidenced by their rejoicing", is an incorrect reading of what went down in Acts 21:19-25
If a Christian showed up at your church and told your leadership he'd been winning souls to Christ by teaching them they must keep the Feast Days and sacrifice lambs when they sinned, would you all rejoice or would you all be stunned into silence? But, Paul returns from the land of Gentiles with word of his Gospel success which included telling Jews there to abandon the Mosaic Law and instead of censuring him for this "heresy", the people rejoiced with him?

Paul says he became a Jew to win Jews, not to establish Dispensationalism. Paul also taught the Corinthians (and us) that the Mosaic Law is meaningless. Paul also called the Galatian Gentiles "the Israel of God" - Gentiles which he says are to have nothing to do with the Mosaic Law.

Once again, if textual harmony is our goal, Dispensationalism goes out the window, but if we're unconcerned with textual harmony, then we can allow Dispensationalism to reside with other disharmonious teachings like the secret rapture, innate immortality of the soul, eternal torment, Sunday sacredness, etc.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I refer you back to my post before this one: it clearly shows Paul continued to show himself Jewish for the benefit of converting Jews, not to establish Dispensationalism. If he was trying to establish Dispensationalism, the Jews are in big trouble, because he told them "circumcision is nothting and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God"

Translation: "The Mosaic Law is done, but the Moral Law - the Ten Commandments - remains."

so, along with all your other wrong theology, you are of the " the Ten Commands are not part of the Torah, they are separate" non-sense.

so, do we have to keep the dietary laws too??
 
Jan 12, 2019
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But, Paul returns from the land of Gentiles with word of his Gospel success which included telling Jews there to abandon the Mosaic Law and instead of censuring him for this "heresy", the people rejoiced with him?
Looks like you insist on having a very different comprehension of that Acts 21:19-25 passage.

Alright then.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,549
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North Carolina
Sure, sure, you keep saying that but you've yet to find a post where I attacked someone's character, right?

Do you even know what "free exchange of ideas" means? It's not the same as like on Christmas morning where everyone smiles and says "thank you, I love it!"

I certainly do understand "free exchange of ideas" but that is not what you do. Judge, judge, judge
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
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so, along with all your other wrong theology,
Oh, so it['s "wrong theology" to point out there can't possibly be seven more years of anything after Jesus comes as a thief to collect the saints because Peter says when He comes as a thief, the world is going to be turned upside down?
you are of the " the Ten Commands are not part of the Torah, they are separate" non-sense. have to keep the dietary laws too??
Do you believe the Ten Commandments began at Sinai and ended at the Cross, as did the Mosaic Law? Let's see what the Bible says about that:

1) Didn't Lucifer sin ("transgression of the law" -- 1 John 3:4 KJV) before he was cast out of heaven?
Ezekiel 28:16 KJV
2) Didn't Cain know better than to kill his brother?
Genesis 4:8 KJV
3) Didn't Abraham know better than to lie?
Genesis 12:13; 26:7 KJV
4) Didn't Rachel know better than to steal Laban's property?
Genesis 31:19 KJV
5) Didn't Joseph know better than to commit adultery?
Genesis 39:10 KJV
6) Did Potiphar's wife know better than to covet Joseph?
7) Didn't Job know better than to blaspheme the name of God?
Job 1:5 KJV
8) Didn't Jacob know better than to engage in idolatry?
Genesis 35:2-4 KJV
9) Didn't Pharaoh (eventually) know better than to make himself god above God the Father?
Exodus 5:2; 12:30-33 KJV
10) Didn't everyone know better than to break the Sabbath commandment to rest on the seventh day?
Exodus 16:27-28 KJV

Every single one of the Ten Commandments can be found already existing BEFORE Sinai, and the last time I checked, a 21st century stomach is no different than was Noah's stomach, right? Psalms 111:7-8 KJV says they stand forever. That's why Isaiah 66 says at the fire of the Second Coming, those who eat unclean things are going to be consumed and those who remain pure in His sight are going to keep the seventh day Sabbath for all eternity. So nice to have Scripture to back up truth :)
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
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Looks like you insist on having a very different comprehension of that Acts 21:19-25 passage.

Alright then.
OK, but in the same way, you insist on ignoring Paul's own admitted strategy of only appearing to practice Judaism in order to win Jews for Christ (1 Corinthians 9:20 KJV), preferring to make Paul's strategy "proof" that God has one set of salvific rules for Jews and another for Gentiles so that you can maintain your belief in Dispensationalism.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
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I call them exactly what they are because of the content. I know you have a beam because of how you judge others.
The reason you can't discern the difference between "judging" and "fruit inspecting" is because as a woman, your thinking is often clouded by emotionalism, which is cool and all, but is also why God put MEN in charge of the affairs of the home and church.

I don't mind when a woman is emotional at all - it's in their nature. But when I see dudes doing it, especially liberal Democrat dudes, part of me wants to reach out to them with kindness and the other part with a slap upside the head.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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OK, but in the same way, you insist on ignoring Paul's own admitted strategy of only appearing to practice Judaism in order to win Jews for Christ (1 Corinthians 9:20 KJV), preferring to make Paul's strategy "proof" that God has one set of salvific rules for Jews and another for Gentiles so that you can maintain your belief in Dispensationalism.
If you believe James, Peter, John et al in Galatians 2:7-9 were preaching the exact same gospel to the Jews, as Paul taught the Gentiles, shouldn't James instead remind those Jewish believers that Paul was indeed correct to say that physical circumcision was no longer necessary for them?

Why did they instead allow Paul to "appear to practice Judaism"?

Do you really think James would approve of such a strategy, given his nickname James the Just, as well as what he stated in James 2:14?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,239
322
83
If you believe James, Peter, John et al in Galatians 2:7-9 were preaching the exact same gospel to the Jews, as Paul taught the Gentiles, shouldn't James instead remind those Jewish believers that Paul was indeed correct to say that physical circumcision was no longer necessary for them?

Why did they instead allow Paul to "appear to practice Judaism"?

Do you really think James would approve of such a strategy, given his nickname James the Just, as well as what he stated in James 2:14?
Good gravy, man, what's the hard part? The man HIMSELF says he became a Jew to win Jews, which means he ceased to be a Jew when he accepted Jesus, right?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,823
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The reason you can't discern the difference between "judging" and "fruit inspecting" is because as a woman, your thinking is often clouded by emotionalism, which is cool and all, but is also why God put MEN in charge of the affairs of the home and church.

I don't mind when a woman is emotional at all - it's in their nature. But when I see dudes doing it, especially liberal Democrat dudes, part of me wants to reach out to them with kindness and the other part with a slap upside the head.

nice attitude.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,823
4,588
113
Oh, so it['s "wrong theology" to point out there can't possibly be seven more years of anything after Jesus comes as a thief to collect the saints because Peter says when He comes as a thief, the world is going to be turned upside down?
Do you believe the Ten Commandments began at Sinai and ended at the Cross, as did the Mosaic Law? Let's see what the Bible says about that:

1) Didn't Lucifer sin ("transgression of the law" -- 1 John 3:4 KJV) before he was cast out of heaven?
Ezekiel 28:16 KJV
2) Didn't Cain know better than to kill his brother?
Genesis 4:8 KJV
3) Didn't Abraham know better than to lie?
Genesis 12:13; 26:7 KJV
4) Didn't Rachel know better than to steal Laban's property?
Genesis 31:19 KJV
5) Didn't Joseph know better than to commit adultery?
Genesis 39:10 KJV
6) Did Potiphar's wife know better than to covet Joseph?
7) Didn't Job know better than to blaspheme the name of God?
Job 1:5 KJV
8) Didn't Jacob know better than to engage in idolatry?
Genesis 35:2-4 KJV
9) Didn't Pharaoh (eventually) know better than to make himself god above God the Father?
Exodus 5:2; 12:30-33 KJV
10) Didn't everyone know better than to break the Sabbath commandment to rest on the seventh day?
Exodus 16:27-28 KJV

Every single one of the Ten Commandments can be found already existing BEFORE Sinai, and the last time I checked, a 21st century stomach is no different than was Noah's stomach, right? Psalms 111:7-8 KJV says they stand forever. That's why Isaiah 66 says at the fire of the Second Coming, those who eat unclean things are going to be consumed and those who remain pure in His sight are going to keep the seventh day Sabbath for all eternity. So nice to have Scripture to back up truth :)
* except that the Law and the Sabbath were part of the Covenant that Israel entered into with God at Sinai.
so, if you were not one of the ones ( or your ancestors ) that came out of egypt then that covenant was not for you.

there is a New Covenant, not REnewed covenant.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,289
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I certainly do understand "free exchange of ideas" but that is not what you do. Judge, judge, judge
He is in such massive denial about judging others that he has unwittingly likened himself to the anti-Christ :censored::giggle:
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,549
2,017
113
North Carolina
The reason you can't discern the difference between "judging" and "fruit inspecting" is because as a woman, your thinking is often clouded by emotionalism, which is cool and all, but is also why God put MEN in charge of the affairs of the home and church.

I don't mind when a woman is emotional at all - it's in their nature. But when I see dudes doing it, especially liberal Democrat dudes, part of me wants to reach out to them with kindness and the other part with a slap upside the head.
LOLOLOL. You are so condescending. Jesus Christ sees all individuals as EQual. Man and Woman are side by side. I do know the difference between judging and "fruit" inspection. Judging as you do is NOT a fruit. It is not christian. Women are not subservient to men. Jesus honors each one. Wow, you are living in a man oriented world.