Not By Works

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Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
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不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不

let me guess, you think salvation must be earned, that we come to God in faith but must work hard to maintain that salvation?

what I hate is those who slander and attack others because its all they have, I guess since they agree like you its ok to break Gods commands as long as you attack those who you disagree with?

get real man.
There is a huge difference between criticism of the individual and the individual's beliefs.

Those who lack the ability to discern between the two show themselves spiritually immature and ill-equipped to engage in controversial public discourse because any criticism of their ideas is perceived as a personal attack.

Their irresponsible accusations of abuse which inevitably follow should be immediately dismissed as weaponized childish nonsense that is intended to silence their opposition's unanswerable arguments and obstruct the free exchange of ideas. Please stop seeking victim status - nobody is trying to hurt you.
 

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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If anyone is judged according to their sins they'll experience the second death which involves being cast into the lake of fire along with death and hell.

Christ died for sins. We access the grace of God through faith and receive forgiveness of sins by what Christ did for us.

The gates of hell will not prevail against the church of Christ. If even one Christian goes to hell then the gates of hell prevailed thereby eliminating the possibility that salvation comes from works we do to earn it.

Romans 8:1-2
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

People in Christ will appear before the judgement seat of Christ and be judged according to their works. They'll receive mercy for their sins, rewards, and inherit eternal life. (1 Cor. 3:12-15, 2 Corinthians 5:10)
 

Phoneman-777

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Aug 3, 2019
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Lol
I am holier than no one. I am a sinner saved by grace. My salvation is based upon God and his promise of eternal life not how Good I can be. Which no matter how good that will be will not be enough
anyway. Thank you for exposing yourself. good day
You're saved by grace, but judged by works, because works are the evidence we are saved by grace. (James 2:12 KJV)

The burning question is this: Why would anyone fear to obtain a favorable outcome in that judgment when it is ever within the reach of a prayer to our Savior Who died to provide us both pardon for sin and power to obey?

The answer is obvious.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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See anyone can be mean or a bully but it pains me so," I'm sorry for calling you a toad"!
Exposing someone is not being a bully. Thats what we have done to a few. And you gave us thumb downs and attacked us. All you have done is exposed yourself
 

Phoneman-777

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Aug 3, 2019
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If anyone is judged according to their sins they'll experience the second death which involves being cast into the lake of fire along with death and hell.
Christ died for sins. We access the grace of God through faith and receive forgiveness of sins by what Christ did for us.
Technically, the "Law of Liberty" is the standard by which we will be judged (James 2:10 KJV), that law being the Ten Commandments as described by James in the passage.
The gates of hell will not prevail against the church of Christ. If even one Christian goes to hell then the gates of hell prevailed thereby eliminating the possibility that salvation comes from works we do to earn it. Romans 8:1-2 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
That goes without saying. BTW, I like when the KJV retains what the other versions conveniently dismiss: the part about "...who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit" - an extremely important phrase which defines the outward evidence of having the inward mindset of being "in Christ Jesus" -- walking in obedience to the Law of Liberty.
People in Christ will appear before the judgement seat of Christ and be judged according to their works. They'll receive mercy for their sins, rewards, and inherit eternal life. (1 Cor. 3:12-15, 2 Corinthians 5:10)
Yes, there is always mercy for the Just Man who falls into sin and rises again, but never mercy for the Presumptuous Man who climbs down into it and sits down among the filth, swats away the uplifting hand of Jesus, and waves a OSAS License to Sin in His face :)
 

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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Technically, the "Law of Liberty" is the standard by which we will be judged (James 2:10 KJV), that law being the Ten Commandments as described by James in the passage.
The Law of Liberty you're mentioning isn't the 10 Commandments. The context of that passage compares the 10 Commandments with the royal law of loving your neighbor as your self. Loving your neighbor as your self is the law of liberty.

A law is not liberty that brings someone into bondage to written code of ethics, but loving our neighbor as ourselves gives us liberty and freedom to choose how we will honor this command.

How one loves their neighbor as themselves varies from person to person since not everyone loves themselves in identical ways.


Yes, there is always mercy for the Just Man who falls into sin and rises again, but never mercy for the Presumptuous Man who climbs down into it and sits down among the filth, swats away the uplifting hand of Jesus, and waves a OSAS License to Sin in His face :)
God will be the judge of that.

People sin for a variety of reasons even after being born again, doesn't make it ok and it grieves the Holy Spirit in Whom we are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Eph. 4:30)

I contend if salvation is in the hands of a Christian then there's no hope for anyone. Fortunately, salvation is not in our own hands.

Paul described his own struggles with sin in Romans 7:13-25.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Doesn't Paul plainly identify who are the true Israelites by, "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed..."?

It says, "...then are ye Abraham's seed..."

It does not say, "...are included among the rest of Abraham's seed who at the moment hate Christ..."

It says, "...then are ye Abraham's seed..." -- INFINITIVE, PRESENT TENSE.

From the very moment the heart of humanity was lifted up from total despair and filled with glorious hope upon hearing the words, "I will put enmity between the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed", those in Christ became then and are now heirs according to the promise, from Adam to the last sinner saved by grace, because "He saith not unto seeds, as of many, but of One. 'And to thy Seed, WHICH IS CHRIST.'" -- Genesis 3:15 KJV; Galatians 3:16 KJV
Your answer to my question is yes?

Yes, Abraham is said to have the descendants as much as the sand on the shore (Jews in the physical land on Earth) and as the stars in the sky (Body of Christ in the heavens).

So we are Abraham's descendants as the Body of Christ.

That does not make us the House of Israel, nor Jews.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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It's cute the way you criticize the brother for using "slander" and then in the same breath say "Phonyman". C'mon, man, let's show the world how to be agreeable in disagreement, OK?
He only sees that flaw in others but doesn't see it in himself, you have to get used to it ;)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Yes, Jeremiah says idolatrous Israel refused to be ashamed, too. Amazing how stubborn the wrong spirit can make people, eh?

amazing how the sin of pride can totally infect someone, and the person infected does not even know it,
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
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The Law of Liberty you're mentioning isn't the 10 Commandments.
:eek:
The context of that passage compares the 10 Commandments with the royal law of loving your neighbor as your self. Loving your neighbor as your self is the law of liberty.
He specifically mentions the commandments "kill" and "adultery"! How can he not be referring to the Ten? It's interesting that although the Mosaic Law is discounted time and time again in the NT, the Ten Commandments aren't. In fact, they are repeated (I think all ten, if you get into the original Greek).
A law is not liberty that brings someone into bondage to written code of ethics, but loving our neighbor as ourselves gives us liberty and freedom to choose how we will honor this command. How one loves their neighbor as themselves varies from person to person since not everyone loves themselves in identical ways.
How can the Ten Commandment "Code of Ethics" be bondage? James refers to both prohibitions against killing and adultery as "liberty". They are bondage to Legalists but Liberty to those who love Jesus: "I delight to do Thy will, O my God; yea, Thy law is within my heart". That's why John says "...His commandments are not grievous" - they are a delight and are Liberty because we walk according to them, not against them :)
People sin for a variety of reasons even after being born again, doesn't make it ok and it grieves the Holy Spirit in Whom we are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Eph. 4:30) I contend if salvation is in the hands of a Christian then there's no hope for anyone. Fortunately, salvation is not in our own hands.
Salvation is not in one's hands, but in one's head - repentance. Repentance isn't a one time thing during an altar call - it's a daily mindset where if/when the Just Man falls, he repents. Yes, people say, "Oh no, once you're saved, we no longer sin!" as if God looks down and sees a Christian and a sinner both having sex outside marriage and reckons the one righteous and the other condemned. "...he that doeth righteousness is righteous."
Paul described his own struggles with sin in Romans 7:13-25.
Yes, Paul was a Just Man who fell, but rose up. He wasn't like a Presumptuous Man who walks to where the ungodly are gathered in counsel, stopped to listen to the sinful plans they lay, and then sits down among the scornful who insist they are doing nothing wrong and are in no need of repentance.
 

Phoneman-777

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Aug 3, 2019
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So we are Abraham's descendants as the Body of Christ.

That does not make us the House of Israel, nor Jews.
Really?
  • Paul called the Galatian church "the Israel of God" so those folks would beg to differ with you.
  • Paul says of the entire Christian world, "we are the circumcision" - "circumcision" being an undeniable reference to Israel.
  • Paul told the gentile Romans a Jew is not a Jew if his flesh alone is circumcised.
  • Paul also told them a non-Jew is in fact a Jew if his heart is circumcised, bris or no bris.
We can't ignore these verses in order to establish our Dispensationalist ideas. And if we allow them to stand, Dispensationalism has to go out the window. God only made a covenant with Israel, and if we're going to be partakers of the New Covenant, we gotta get Spiritually Circumcised and become Spiritual Israelites by becoming Christ's bloodwashed possession (Galatians 3:29 KJV).

Will you stick you head in the sand and insist on Dispenationalism?
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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:eek:
He specifically mentions the commandments "kill" and "adultery"! How can he not be referring to the Ten? It's interesting that although the Mosaic Law is discounted time and time again in the NT, the Ten Commandments aren't. In fact, they are repeated (I think all ten, if you get into the original Greek).
How can the Ten Commandment "Code of Ethics" be bondage? James refers to both prohibitions against killing and adultery as "liberty". They are bondage to Legalists but Liberty to those who love Jesus: "I delight to do Thy will, O my God; yea, Thy law is within my heart". That's why John says "...His commandments are not grievous" - they are a delight and are Liberty because we walk according to them, not against them :)
Salvation is not in one's hands, but in one's head - repentance. Repentance isn't a one time thing during an altar call - it's a daily mindset where if/when the Just Man falls, he repents. Yes, people say, "Oh no, once you're saved, we no longer sin!" as if God looks down and sees a Christian and a sinner both having sex outside marriage and reckons the one righteous and the other condemned. "...he that doeth righteousness is righteous."
Yes, Paul was a Just Man who fell, but rose up. He wasn't like a Presumptuous Man who walks to where the ungodly are gathered in counsel, stopped to listen to the sinful plans they lay, and then sits down among the scornful who insist they are doing nothing wrong and are in no need of repentance.

The overall context of these passages is to not show favoritism to people for what they wear or how much money they have.

Showing favoritism for how much money someone has or what clothes they wear doesn't violate any of the 10 commandments, but it violates the law of liberty or royal law, which, again, says to love your neighbor as yourself.

Check the preceding verses for context, but let's take another look at the verses you brought up.

James 2:8-13
8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Really?
  • Paul called the Galatian church "the Israel of God" so those folks would beg to differ with you.
Will you stick you head in the sand and insist on Dispenationalism?
Another one of those widely misunderstood verse, read it properly in Galatians 6

(Context) 14 But far be it from me to boast, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Paul is distinguishing between 2 groups in vs 16. Those in the Body of Christ who walk by the rule of no physical circumcision, AND the Israel of God (which reflects the little flock of Messianic believers who still believe in physical circumcision and being zealous about the Law of Moses (Acts 21:19-21)

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

So no, the Galatians church cannot be the Israel of God
 

Phoneman-777

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Aug 3, 2019
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amazing how the sin of pride can totally infect someone, and the person infected does not even know it,
Yes, so true. The "seat of the scornful" is where those who are full of pride sit and curse those perceived as inferior or worthless. Good thing Jesus didn't go that route.
 

Phoneman-777

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Aug 3, 2019
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The overall context of these passages is to not show favoritism to people for what they wear or how much money they have. Showing favoritism for how much money someone has or what clothes they wear doesn't violate any of the 10 commandments,
The 2nd covers it directly and possibly the 10th, indirectly.

Again, the Law of Liberty is the Ten Commandments, the standard by which we are going to be judged.