Not By Works

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Jan 9, 2014
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You're trying to make a formula out that one verse, which is very common. If you believe in formulas and they get you closer to God, by all means don't let me interfere. It's not worth debating for me.
Come on, a formula? It’s just scripture. What could be wrong with saying confession is made unto salvation? Paul said it, not me.
 
Feb 22, 2021
518
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Midwest
You know that NOT BY WORKS is obvious...There are good works, and they count ZERO for Salvation.
Precious friend, yes, OBVIOUS, IF you mean under The Gospel Of GRACE? =
Today's MYSTERY Dispensation! And, NOT "mixing IT up" with, but:

Rightly Dividing (2 Timothy 2:15) IT From “Things That DIFFER!”:

How about under the gospel of the kingdom, where "works" are Required to prevent Jews from having a "DEAD faith"? = Yesterday's Dispensation of Prophecy/Law
And though they are reflective of our sanctification, they do not contribute to it.
Precious friend, Yes, Agree, IF you are referring To God's {Spiritual} Sanctification in
Justification From
The PENALTY of sin?:

Rom_15:16 "That I should be the minister of JESUS CHRIST to the Gentiles, ministering
The Gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be Acceptable, Being Sanctified By The Holy Ghost."

1Co_1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are Sanctified in CHRIST JESUS, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon The Name Of JESUS CHRIST our LORD, both theirs and ours:"

1Co_6:11 "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are Sanctified, but ye are Justified in The Name Of The LORD JESUS, And By The Spirit of our God."

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

personal sanctification, where we "WORK out OUR OWN salvation {sanctification, overcoming THE POWER of sin}, with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12):

2Ti_2:21 "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for The Master's Use, and prepared unto every good work." = "contributing" by physical/external "works," Correct?

Exactly what is a “work”? Rom 10. “10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
Isn’t confession something a person “does” with the voice? Isn’t that a “work”? If not, why differentiate between confession and “works”?
Precious friend, {please forgive the mind-wrenching "study" but}, hmm, let's see:

(1) "believe with the heart" = spiritual = salvation Without physical/external "works"

(2a) "confess with the mouth" = spiritual, IF "confessed {with the INTERNAL spiritual mouth} to God Only" = saved, no?

Rightly Dividing (2 Timothy 2:15) IT From “Things That DIFFER!”:

(2b) "confess with the mouth"? = physical/External "work"? IF "confessed {with the physical mouth} to men" = saved by "works" = Under Previous Dispensation of prophecy/Law, where ALL "were healed!" = yes, saved by "faith PLUS works"

However, Under GRACE, Today = IMPOSSIBLE, IF "NOT saved by WORKS"? Also, the physical work idea would EXCLUDE the "dumb" who CANNOT "confess with the physical mouth"? Then what?:

{Can ALL "be healed" Today, Under GRACE? Grace Word for infirmities}

Thanks for your Prayerful/Careful review!
 
Jan 9, 2014
140
22
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Really?

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Rom 4:3)
Lol, salvation is a free gift. A gift cannot be earned…or deserved. We do not get to choose to repay a gift. It would be a insult.
Counted = credited. Lots of translations use “credited”.
Let’s say you did good things, like visiting widows and orphans. In regards to salvation, what would you deserve? Nothing. You deserve to burn forever in hell, because you are a sinner.
But let’s say you got baptized right before you did those good things. NOW what do you deserve?
Nothing. You deserve to burn in hell, because you are a sinner.
Back that up and say you confessed Jesus before men. What would you deserve? Nothing. You “deserve” death, for being a sinner.
So you heard the gospel. What would that “deserve”? Same thing, die and burn.
And if you miraculously, somehow, inexplicably, believed God, without hearing a word of the gospel,( just like Abraham?) What would you deserve?
Same exact thing. Because “nothing” you do will ever merit, or earn, or deserve salvation.
 
Jan 9, 2014
140
22
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Precious friend, yes, OBVIOUS, IF you mean under The Gospel Of GRACE? =
Today's MYSTERY Dispensation! And, NOT "mixing IT up" with, but:

Rightly Dividing (2 Timothy 2:15) IT From “Things That DIFFER!”:

How about under the gospel of the kingdom, where "works" are Required to prevent Jews from having a "DEAD faith"? = Yesterday's Dispensation of Prophecy/Law

Precious friend, Yes, Agree, IF you are referring To God's {Spiritual} Sanctification in
Justification From
The PENALTY of sin?:

Rom_15:16 "That I should be the minister of JESUS CHRIST to the Gentiles, ministering
The Gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be Acceptable, Being Sanctified By The Holy Ghost."

1Co_1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are Sanctified in CHRIST JESUS, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon The Name Of JESUS CHRIST our LORD, both theirs and ours:"

1Co_6:11 "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are Sanctified, but ye are Justified in The Name Of The LORD JESUS, And By The Spirit of our God."

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

personal sanctification, where we "WORK out OUR OWN salvation {sanctification, overcoming THE POWER of sin}, with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12):

2Ti_2:21 "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for The Master's Use, and prepared unto every good work." = "contributing" by physical/external "works," Correct?


Precious friend, {please forgive the mind-wrenching "study" but}, hmm, let's see:

(1) "believe with the heart" = spiritual = salvation Without physical/external "works"

(2a) "confess with the mouth" = spiritual, IF "confessed {with the INTERNAL spiritual mouth} to God Only" = saved, no?

Rightly Dividing (2 Timothy 2:15) IT From “Things That DIFFER!”:

(2b) "confess with the mouth"? = physical/External "work"? IF "confessed {with the physical mouth} to men" = saved by "works" = Under Previous Dispensation of prophecy/Law, where ALL "were healed!" = yes, saved by "faith PLUS works"

However, Under GRACE, Today = IMPOSSIBLE, IF "NOT saved by WORKS"? Also, the physical work idea would EXCLUDE the "dumb" who CANNOT "confess with the physical mouth"? Then what?:

{Can ALL "be healed" Today, Under GRACE? Grace Word for infirmities}

Thanks for your Prayerful/Careful review!
“With the mouth he confesses unto salvation” = action, correct?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,262
4,202
113

YES, I had a Pacemaker put above my heart, and it was a big success. I thought I was about to Check Out, permanently.

It lowered my Blood Sugars to almost normal. Not sure how, but I will take it, and Praise the Lord for it.

It lowered my weight to 237, from 249.

It brought some of my memory back.

It gave me a much needed energy boost.

Four improvements that I did not expect, PRAISE THE LORD.
 

jay21

New member
Sep 10, 2021
14
9
3
Cebu, Philippines
YES, I had a Pacemaker put above my heart, and it was a big success. I thought I was about to Check Out, permanently.

It lowered my Blood Sugars to almost normal. Not sure how, but I will take it, and Praise the Lord for it.

It lowered my weight to 237, from 249.

It brought some of my memory back.

It gave me a much needed energy boost.

Four improvements that I did not expect, PRAISE THE LORD.
Praise the Lord! Last year I was also battling with being underweight my OB have set me weight goal to 50kgs and ever since I turned 18 I was stuck being at 40kgs, but I didnt gave up and focused on it. I asked the Lord for guidance and indeed he gave me more. Truly his work are wonders!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
36,231
13,516
113
66
Tennessee
YES, I had a Pacemaker put above my heart, and it was a big success. I thought I was about to Check Out, permanently.

It lowered my Blood Sugars to almost normal. Not sure how, but I will take it, and Praise the Lord for it.

It lowered my weight to 237, from 249.

It brought some of my memory back.

It gave me a much needed energy boost.

Four improvements that I did not expect, PRAISE THE LORD.
That is a very good report brother. :)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,262
4,202
113
Precious friend, yes, OBVIOUS, IF you mean under The Gospel Of GRACE? =
Today's MYSTERY Dispensation! And, NOT "mixing IT up" with, but:

Rightly Dividing (2 Timothy 2:15) IT From “Things That DIFFER!”:

How about under the gospel of the kingdom, where "works" are Required to prevent Jews from having a "DEAD faith"? = Yesterday's Dispensation of Prophecy/Law

Precious friend, Yes, Agree, IF you are referring To God's {Spiritual} Sanctification in
Justification From
The PENALTY of sin?:

Rom_15:16 "That I should be the minister of JESUS CHRIST to the Gentiles, ministering
The Gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be Acceptable, Being Sanctified By The Holy Ghost."

1Co_1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are Sanctified in CHRIST JESUS, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon The Name Of JESUS CHRIST our LORD, both theirs and ours:"

1Co_6:11 "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are Sanctified, but ye are Justified in The Name Of The LORD JESUS, And By The Spirit of our God."

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

personal sanctification, where we "WORK out OUR OWN salvation {sanctification, overcoming THE POWER of sin}, with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12):

2Ti_2:21 "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for The Master's Use, and prepared unto every good work." = "contributing" by physical/external "works," Correct?


Precious friend, {please forgive the mind-wrenching "study" but}, hmm, let's see:

(1) "believe with the heart" = spiritual = salvation Without physical/external "works"

(2a) "confess with the mouth" = spiritual, IF "confessed {with the INTERNAL spiritual mouth} to God Only" = saved, no?

Rightly Dividing (2 Timothy 2:15) IT From “Things That DIFFER!”:

(2b) "confess with the mouth"? = physical/External "work"? IF "confessed {with the physical mouth} to men" = saved by "works" = Under Previous Dispensation of prophecy/Law, where ALL "were healed!" = yes, saved by "faith PLUS works"

However, Under GRACE, Today = IMPOSSIBLE, IF "NOT saved by WORKS"? Also, the physical work idea would EXCLUDE the "dumb" who CANNOT "confess with the physical mouth"? Then what?:

{Can ALL "be healed" Today, Under GRACE? Grace Word for infirmities}

Thanks for your Prayerful/Careful review!

If you think you found a contradiction in the Scriptures, most likely you have found a frequently Misunderstood Verse or verses, or Mis-Translation in one or two of those verses. There are no contradictions in my BIBLE.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,382
17,666
113
YES, I had a Pacemaker put above my heart, and it was a big success. I thought I was about to Check Out, permanently.

It lowered my Blood Sugars to almost normal. Not sure how, but I will take it, and Praise the Lord for it.

It lowered my weight to 237, from 249.

It brought some of my memory back.

It gave me a much needed energy boost.

Four improvements that I did not expect, PRAISE THE LORD.
Amen! Praise God for the things he has given us through medicine today!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,626
7,713
113
Lol, salvation is a free gift. A gift cannot be earned…or deserved.
Yet the Bible says that Abraham's faith was imputed for righteousness. You can quibble about the words, but justification is by grace through FAITH. Yes salvation is indeed a free gift, but given only to those who obey the Gospel.
 
Jan 9, 2014
140
22
18
YES, I had a Pacemaker put above my heart, and it was a big success. I thought I was about to Check Out, permanently.

It lowered my Blood Sugars to almost normal. Not sure how, but I will take it, and Praise the Lord for it.

It lowered my weight to 237, from 249.

It brought some of my memory back.

It gave me a much needed energy boost.

Four improvements that I did not expect, PRAISE THE LORD.
God bless you. Wow! I’ve got an enlarged heart, so it’s good to hear the pace maker worked out!
 
Jan 9, 2014
140
22
18
Yet the Bible says that Abraham's faith was imputed for righteousness. You can quibble about the words, but justification is by grace through FAITH. Yes salvation is indeed a free gift, but given only to those who obey the Gospel.
Lol. So you believe “faith” deserves to be rewarded with righteousness? That “faith” earned Abraham’s righteousness?
Wow.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,542
973
113
Really?

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Rom 4:3)
Faith is necessary for salvation, but it in no way earns salvation. If it did, we would have a ground to boast, but let no man glory in anything save the cross of Christ.

Salvation is by Grace, through faith. And the only work that earns or merits salvation is the Work that Christ has done.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,542
973
113
Lol. So you believe “faith” deserves to be rewarded with righteousness? That “faith” earned Abraham’s righteousness?
Wow.
The imputation of righteousness is the imputation of the Righteousness of Christ. No way that could ever be “earned”. You are correct. It is a free gift.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,928
3,348
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personal sanctification, where we "WORK out OUR OWN salvation {sanctification, overcoming THE POWER of sin}, with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12):

2Ti_2:21 "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for The Master's Use, and prepared unto every good work." = "contributing" by physical/external "works," Correct?
Context is king...

Therefore, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, so now, not only in my presence but even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who is working in you both to will and to work according to his good purpose.
(Php 2:12-13)

2Ti_2:21 "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for The Master's Use, and prepared unto every good work."

Romans 8:13 (KJV) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

The only thing we have to 'contribute to our sanctification is our sin. Even our confessing of sin is a result of the Spirit's conviction.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,693
330
83
You're right. Confession is an action, a "work" if you will.
Roman's 10:9-10 isn't works, it is a response to conviction on the soul to be eternally saved.

It isn't self effort, which is works.. but letting Jesus do the saving. 'Change of mind, heart'

Is conversing with God under conviction a work?
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,247
3,682
113
60
Do we really think God is incapable of knowing our hearts?

Why do we lower God down to human nature. And not give him the credit he is due.

As David said, You KNEW me before my mothers womb..

God knows. He knew before time began, thats why he predestined us to be conformed to his image. Based on his knowledge.
God knows who are His...
...xox...