Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#153,241
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#153,241
mailmandan said:
It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe and are saved, yet Jesus clarified the second clause of Mark 16:16 with, "but he who does not believe will be condemned." Nothing there about a lack of baptism causing condemnation and baptism is not mentioned in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26. *Hermeneutics.

It's like saying, "he who takes his medication and washes it down with water will be made well." Of course, it's not the washing it down with water part that makes a person well. It's the medication, but if water is not available and the person takes the medication dry (been there, done that) they will still be made well "because of the medication."

Sadly, there have been numerous people over the years who have been water baptized yet merely believe "mental assent" in the existence of Christ and even in historical facts about Christ but fall short of believing in Christ unto salvation by trusting in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (Romans 1:16)
Click to expand...
it's not sad.

The verse indicates i would say that when you believe you will be baptised.

I'm sure it does not indicate you have to believe before your baptised 😊

If people get baptised before hand, they can still believe. Act 19 confirms that.

It's not a sin to get baptised before you believed.

But I believe a person would probably get baptised again after they had believed.

And the simple minded away from opinion would probably get baptised by a believer. If the lord wanted them to, just like me.

I felt compelled to get baptised in water again 😊
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#153,242
Apr 7, 2014
25,482
13,421
113
58
#153,242
Thunderrr-mental said:
it's not sad.

The verse indicates i would say that when you believe you will be baptised.

I'm sure it does not indicate you have to believe before your baptised 😊

If people get baptised before hand, they can still believe. Act 19 confirms that.

It's not a sin to get baptised before you believed.

But I believe a person would probably get baptised again after they had believed.

And the simple minded away from opinion would probably get baptised by a believer. If the lord wanted them to, just like me.

I felt compelled to get baptised in water again 😊
Click to expand...
If one is depending on water baptism for salvation and not on becoming a child of God through faith in Christ, then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier, but once one becomes a soldier one is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes them as a soldier.

Putting on a judge's robe does not, in of itself, make anyone a judge, but one who has been made a judge is then qualified to put on judicial robes and declare their qualifications. So too with being water baptized, the Christian puts on a robe for which they have previously been qualified to wear.

Certainly, water baptism is an important act of obedience. Anyone professing to believe in/have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and yet refusing to be water baptized is of questionable sincerity. It's unthinkable that anyone who truly believes the gospel would refuse to be water baptized. I could not wait to get water baptized after my conversion and I cannot think of one Christian that I know who has refused to be water baptized after their conversion.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#153,243
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#153,243
mailmandan said:
If one is depending on water baptism for salvation and not on becoming a child of God through faith in Christ, then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier, but once one becomes a soldier one is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes them as a soldier.

Putting on a judge's robe does not, in of itself, make anyone a judge, but one who has been made a judge is then qualified to put on judicial robes and declare their qualifications. So too with being water baptized, the Christian puts on a robe for which they have previously been qualified to wear.

Certainly, water baptism is an important act of obedience. Anyone professing to believe in/have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and yet refusing to be water baptized is of questionable sincerity. It's unthinkable that anyone who truly believes the gospel would refuse to be water baptized. I could not wait to get water baptized after my conversion and I cannot think of one Christian that I know who has refused to be water baptized after their conversion.
Click to expand...
Being dependant, on believing water baptism saves saves you, would be not be believing that you can not receive salvation through water baptism.


If you believe that scripture saves you then you will not believe that water baptism can bring you salvation 🤔

Because salvation means also to make something old new


So when your baptised your cleansed. (Made new)

But the believing part is in order to be made new, The Holy Spirit has be known to be with you, so that you know you are being baptised by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#153,244
Apr 7, 2014
25,482
13,421
113
58
#153,244
Thunderrr-mental said:
Being dependant, on believing water baptism saves saves you, would be not be believing that you can not receive salvation through water baptism.

If you believe that scripture saves you then you will not believe that water baptism can bring you salvation 🤔

Because salvation means also to make something old new

So when your baptised your cleansed. (Made new)

But the believing part is in order to be made new, The Holy Spirit has be known to be with you, so that you know you are being baptised by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ
Click to expand...
Being cleansed and made new is "signified" but not procurred in the waters of baptism.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#153,245
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#153,245
mailmandan said:
Being cleansed and made new is "signified" but not procurred in the waters of baptism.
Click to expand...
mailmandan said:
Being cleansed and made new is "signified" but not procurred in the waters of baptism.
Click to expand...
Believe and be baptised and be saved.

Let's up at this one sentence.

It tells you to do two things to be saved.


Mark 16:16 “He who believes and is baptized will be saved
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#153,248
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#153,248
Thunderrr-mental said:
I got baptised by mum when I was 15 but I never felt truly felt the Holy Spirit until a couple of years ago, so I got baptized again 😊
Click to expand...
I was baptized once in the ocean by a Southern Baptist pastor after I came to faith in Jesus and was baptized in the Holy Spirit but I have come to realize to put no confidence in the water part, but only in Jesus. 2Cor 5:7
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#153,252
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#153,252
Thunderrr-mental said:
Being dependant, on believing water baptism saves saves you, would be not be believing that you can not receive salvation through water baptism.


If you believe that scripture saves you then you will not believe that water baptism can bring you salvation 🤔

Because salvation means also to make something old new


So when your baptised your cleansed. (Made new)

But the believing part is in order to be made new, The Holy Spirit has be known to be with you, so that you know you are being baptised by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ
Click to expand...
Sorry my English was all over the place here,

Being dependent on believing the act of water baptism saves you, would take away from the what takes place in water baptism.

It' is the Holy Spirit that baptises you into water. So if your thinking the water will save you, then your missing the key element.

The key element is the Holy Spirit is the living water, that baptises you into water.

I believe the living water that is in the holy Spirit is the spiritual blood of Jesus christ.

The Holy spirit then baptises you in water and resurrects you with the the risen Christ,

For Acceptance of faith and remission of sins.

Then comes baptism of fire
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#153,253
Jan 14, 2019
8,197
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
#153,253
Thunderrr-mental said:
I believe one must believe and be baptised to be saved.

But then why should we not believe that is a works of the Holy Spirit 😔 surely one can not baptise himself into living water.

Surely the water must be made alive to wash away your sins and to be resurrected in Christ.

I mean I would of thought so.

sorry for my comment if it comes across as being trollish.

I have no issues with being a troll in this instance.
Click to expand...
this is a wet subject
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#153,255
May 21, 2022
5,927
2,296
113
#153,255
Thunderrr-mental said:
Sorry my English was all over the place here,

Being dependent on believing the act of water baptism saves you, would take away from the what takes place in water baptism.

It' is the Holy Spirit that baptises you into water. So if your thinking the water will save you, then your missing the key element.

The key element is the Holy Spirit is the living water, that baptises you into water.

I believe the living water that is in the holy Spirit is the spiritual blood of Jesus christ.

The Holy spirit then baptises you in water and resurrects you with the the risen Christ,

For Acceptance of faith and remission of sins.

Then comes baptism of fire
Click to expand...

What is your scripture reference for this, just curious?
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#153,258
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#153,258
HeIsHere said:
That is not scripture, and no it is not obvious.
Click to expand...
It's obvious that ive spent Hundreds of pages here being kind patient and courteous, which obviously suggest it's not the water that saves you, but the Holy Spirit baptising you into water that saves you. 😊

But obviously you have seen what I've seen.

So obviously you would say this.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#153,259
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#153,259
You haven't seen what I've seen.

I know in my heart that this is true.

And I know this place is full of people who have been brainwashed by Zionists

It's not enough to believe, you also have to be baptised, when you know you have been saved by faith. You then have to be baptised by the holy spirit into water

You then have to be saved by baptism into water by the Holy Spirit, to receive salvation
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#153,260
May 21, 2022
5,927
2,296
113
#153,260
Thunderrr-mental said:
It's obvious that ive spent Hundreds of pages here being kind patient and courteous, which obviously suggest it's not the water that saves you, but the Holy Spirit baptising you into water that saves you. 😊

But obviously you have seen what I've seen.

So obviously you would say this.
Click to expand...

I will go with Mark 16:9-20 not being in the earliest manuscripts and may not be part of the original biblical text.

And I will also go with no other scripture supports your position.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.