Not By Works

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Dec 18, 2023
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Jesus is Also the Living water, and the Holy spirit is also the living water.


The living must be the Spiritual blood, the seed, that sets you free, you have to be washed in the Blood.

You have to baptised into the resurrected Christ, by the Holy Spirit.

Believe and be baptised and be saved (two things)

How can you call this just getting wet and mention demons,

Where are your works that come from being saved by Faith.

Believe and be baptised.


You have to believe to be baptised.

You can't take baptism away.

That would be the devil's work if your mentioning demons. Only the devil can steal this from you.
.don't let him.

He's a liar and a thief
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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whats casting out demons got to do with baptism.

Are you trying to insult me
Slow down Jack and read the larger portion of the text....

Mark 16:16

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

That is your proof text....... this verse is not included in the oldest and most reliable biblical manuscripts.

So move on and find a more "supportive" scripture for you assertion.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Slow down Jack and read the larger portion of the text....

Mark 16:16

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

That is your proof text....... this verse is not included in the oldest and most reliable biblical manuscripts.

So move on and find a more "supportive" scripture for you assertion.
That's a good rejection if ever i heard one, but i would have to question if thats a Good works by the Holy spirit .
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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That's a good rejection if ever i heard one, but i would have to question if thats a Good works by the Holy spirit .
Anyone can use the "holy spirit" as their personal guide as part of their assertion, yes false teachers do that all the time.

I can see you did not like my appeal to authority so now you are using the "holy spirit" as your authority disconnected from scripture, that is not sound scripture interpretation.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Dec 18, 2023
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Anyone can use the "holy spirit" as their personal guide as part of their assertion, yes false teachers do that all the time.

I can see you did not like my appeal to authority so now you are using the "holy spirit" as your authority disconnected from scripture, that is not sound scripture interpretation.
Correction.

Everyone should check the living waters that lives in there heart, because everyone has a personal walk.

So it is not, anyone can say something by the Holy Spirit, that would not be a good works.

Because by grace you where saved to do good works, to Seek the living waters of Jesus, that springs from his fountain of Youth, that is in the spiritual blood, that lives in His Holy spirit. That was given on the day of pentacost, so that you lay by still waters, to enable you to fear no evil, and to baptized you in the resurrected Christ. To be saved.

not my words but his.

Believe and be baptised and be saved. (Two things) to be saved.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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When Nicodemus spoke to Jesus about being born again, he didn't understand and asked how a man can enter a second time into his mother's womb.

So the water of the womb is the context of the birth.

Jesus then answers to say you must be born by water (the water of the womb) and the Spirit (later at belief on Jesus).

Jesus isn't talking about water baptism here, but physical birth compared with Spiritual.

Others look at this and say being born of water and the Spirit is the water of new life..the everlasting spring. I don't agree with this, but both these interpretations are not about water baptism.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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When Nicodemus spoke to Jesus about being born again, he didn't understand and asked how a man can enter a second time into his mother's womb.

So the water of the womb is the context of the birth.

Jesus then answers to say you must be born by water (the water of the womb) and the Spirit (later at belief on Jesus).

Jesus isn't talking about water baptism here, but physical birth compared with Spiritual.

Others look at this and say being born of water and the Spirit is the water of new life..the everlasting spring. I don't agree with this, but both these interpretations are not about water baptism.
correction, you are not born of water in the mothers womb,

You are born in water 😋
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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I think some people do not have a clear understanding of Baptism... If you think baptism is all about being dunked into water then the Bible will show you that you are mistaken.. Paul in the early days of Christianity was probably the one who's preaching saw thousands of people receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.. He played a part in the salvation of many new believers.. But even He said the following::

(1 Corinthians 1:14-17) "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; {15} Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. {16} And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. {17} For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."

What is the kind of baptism Paul is speaking of here? Is he talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit or is he talking about water baptism? If we read the Bible we seem numerous times when gentiles having heard the gospel from Paul received the Holy Spirit many of the speaking in tongues as a manifestation of receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.. So in context of all the books and letters in the Bible about what Paul did it cannot be speaking of both Water baptism and Baptism of the Holy Spirit.. Therefore we must conclude Paul was talking only about water baptism in the above portion of scripture..

John the Baptist also made it clear that the baptism of Jesus would NOT be water baptism. When He said about Jesus..

(Mark 1:6-8) "And John was clothed with camel’s hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey; {7} And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. {8} I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost."

So all this talk about the necessity of water baptism for salvation is simply not in alignment with the scriptures.. If anything water baptism is a symbolic public declaration of a Spiritual baptism that has already happened to a person who has already come to believe Jesus and trust in his atonement..
 
Dec 18, 2023
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I think some people do not have a clear understanding of Baptism... If you think baptism is all about being dunked into water then the Bible will show you that you are mistaken.. Paul in the early days of Christianity was probably the one who's preaching saw thousands of people receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.. He played a part in the salvation of many new believers.. But even He said the following::

(1 Corinthians 1:14-17) "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; {15} Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. {16} And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. {17} For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."

What is the kind of baptism Paul is speaking of here? Is he talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit or is he talking about water baptism? If we read the Bible we seem numerous times when gentiles having heard the gospel from Paul received the Holy Spirit many of the speaking in tongues as a manifestation of receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.. So in context of all the books and letters in the Bible about what Paul did it cannot be speaking of both Water baptism and Baptism of the Holy Spirit.. Therefore we must conclude Paul was talking only about water baptism in the above portion of scripture..

John the Baptist also made it clear that the baptism of Jesus would NOT be water baptism. When He said about Jesus..

(Mark 1:6-8) "And John was clothed with camel’s hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey; {7} And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. {8} I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost."

So all this talk about the necessity of water baptism for salvation is simply not in alignment with the scriptures.. If anything water baptism is a symbolic public declaration of a Spiritual baptism that has already happened to a person who has already come to believe Jesus and trust in his atonement..
it seems that when people want to prove you can't be saved by works, there happy to make baptism look evil to
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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it seems that when people want to prove you can't be saved by works, there happy to make baptism look evil to
Salvation is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life. Full stop. Done deal.

Almost the entire book of John says this.

Service after salvation..or discipleship ..is water baptism, reading your Bible, sharing your faith etc..

That is where James 2 comes in.

They are separate things.

A person saved is not guaranteed to then go on to do all the rest.

Early church times most did go on to water baptism, service in a church etc.. in fact most got baptized in water straight after salvation.

That is part of the reason you have baptism alongside salvation in some verses. But.... this has already been covered..discussed ad nauseum. So I'll leave it there.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Salvation is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life. Full stop. Done deal.

Almost the entire book of John says this.

Service after salvation..or discipleship ..is water baptism, reading your Bible, sharing your faith etc..

That is where James 2 comes in.

They are separate things.

A person saved is not guaranteed to then go on to do all the rest.

Early church times most did go on to water baptism, service in a church etc.. in fact most got baptized in water straight after salvation.

That is part of the reason you have baptism alongside salvation in some verses. But.... this has already been covered..discussed ad nauseum. So I'll leave it there.
repeating words spoken in the bible will not save you.

Why because one sentence is not a full story.

Scriptures says believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

Because he is the high priest of salvation

He holds the power to life and death.

When scripture says believe in the son and you will be saved, it does not say you will be saved instantly.

So you can not assume the moment you say i believe Jesus is lord, you will be saved completely at that moment.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,063
1,037
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New Zealand
repeating words spoken in the bible will not save you.

Why because one sentence is not a full story.

Scriptures says believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

Because he is the high priest of salvation

He holds the power to life and death.

When scripture says believe in the son and you will be saved, it does not say you will be saved instantly.

So you can not assume the moment you say i believe Jesus is lord, you will be saved completely at that moment.
I did not mean someone just repeating a line back. I mean from the heart confessing what you believe to Jesus. The mind is changed and then the person confesses that change from the heart.

But this most surely is instant. There is no time period put in scripture between believing and being sealed by the Holy Spirit.

End.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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I did not mean someone just repeating a line back. I mean from the heart confessing what you believe to Jesus. The mind is changed and then the person confesses that change from the heart.

But this most surely is instant. There is no time period put in scripture between believing and being sealed by the Holy Spirit.

End.
This is repeating scripture still, and also believing what you say from the heart is true from a personal experience.

You just can not love God if you don't obey his commandments.

The biggest commandment of them all is found in acts 2.38



Acts 2:38

New International Version



38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


 
Dec 18, 2023
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Not just my opinion but also it's Scripture...

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Circumcision of the heart is when the sword of the spirit Pearces the heart.

And simply put Jesus came to save the world with his sword.

And further more he did not come to bring Peace on his last visit, he said as much.

Which means he's coming back to Judge everybody.

And those who save themself's will lose there life.

But those who believe and are baptised will be saved.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Circumcision of the heart is when the sword of the spirit Pearces the heart.

And simply put Jesus came to save the world with his sword.

And further more he did not come to bring Peace on his last visit, he said as much.

Which means he's coming back to Judge everybody.

And those who save themself's will lose there life.

But those who believe and are baptised will be saved.
I believe it's not when somebody believes they have pierced there own heart.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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When Nicodemus spoke to Jesus about being born again, he didn't understand and asked how a man can enter a second time into his mother's womb.

So the water of the womb is the context of the birth.

Jesus then answers to say you must be born by water (the water of the womb) and the Spirit (later at belief on Jesus).

Jesus isn't talking about water baptism here, but physical birth compared with Spiritual.

Others look at this and say being born of water and the Spirit is the water of new life..the everlasting spring. I don't agree with this, but both these interpretations are not about water baptism.
In regard to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels water with being born out of a mother’s womb and with flesh based on the answer of Nicodemus to Jesus. Simply stated in that case, two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (which is, of course, accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.

There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

If "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)