Not By Works

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Faith still has to be tested in fire 😊

Peter 1:7



7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.
that does not say it "has to be" in all cases.

it says gold in the general case is tried by fire, and in the specific case of one specific church they specifically underwent trials in order to bring honor to Christ by demonstrating the genuineness of their faith.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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that does not say it "has to be" in all cases.

it says gold in the general case is tried by fire, and in the specific case of one specific church they specifically underwent trials in order to bring honor to Christ by demonstrating the genuineness of their faith.
I look at this another way to and through more scripture.
Testing the spirits
1 John 4:1-6

New International Version



4 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Then there's this

1 John 3:23. (again two things)

And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.


Then then there's this


Mark 16:16 ( again Two things)

New International Version



16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.


OK So is your question will all faith be tested still ?
 
Dec 18, 2023
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that does not say it "has to be" in all cases.

it says gold in the general case is tried by fire, and in the specific case of one specific church they specifically underwent trials in order to bring honor to Christ by demonstrating the genuineness of their faith.
It says genuine faith that has passed fire will not melt like gold 👍
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,694
13,137
113
I look at this another way to and through more scripture.
Testing the spirits
1 John 4:1-6

New International Version



4 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Then there's this

1 John 3:23. (again two things)

And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.


Then then there's this


Mark 16:16 ( again Two things)

New International Version



16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.


OK So is your question will all faith be tested still ?
these don't say faith "must be tried by fire" either.
 
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it doesn't say faith must pass through fire.

it says even though gold is purified by fire it can still decay, and that faith is more precious than gold.
why are you painting the kettle black

Peter 1:7



7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold
 
Dec 18, 2023
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The fire is designed to remove impurities also. Different melting temperatures cause the separation of all that is unwanted as it melts and is removed.
yes and no.

Peter 1:7



7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,694
13,137
113
why are you painting the kettle black

Peter 1:7



7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold
after posting 5 different versions you finally found the infamously innacurate paraphrase nlt that says the specific church Peter was writing to was in that specific instance having their specific faith tested in the way fire is used to refine gold?

but it still does not say faith must be tested by fire.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,195
5,452
113
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yes and no.

Peter 1:7



7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold
Very little in nature is pure. Elements are either embedded within other elements are are chemically combined in compounds. The way they are separated is by heating them. The elements with the lower boiling point will liquefy and be separated from the other element.
Trials have the same effect on our hearts. The vile and wicked things in our hearts are melted so they can be removed, and the holy and virtuous things that God places there will remain because they are not melted by the heat of the trial.
In this way, we are both purified and strengthened in our faith, and conformed to the image of Christ.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
211
43
Yes you can throw out works. Unless you think God can not know our faith, God does not need proof, We may, But God does not.

That passage said Abraham was declared righteous (saved) before he did one work.

The work was a natural response to faith. Not an addendum to faith to help his get saved.
Greek: autou gar esmen (1PPAI) poiema, ktisthentes (APPMPN) en Christo Iesou epi ergois agathois ois proetoimasen (PPPMPN) o theos hina en autois peripatesomen. (1PAAS)

BGT αὐτοῦ γάρ ἐσμεν ποίημα, κτισθέντες ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἐπὶ ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς οἷς προητοίμασεν ὁ θεὸς, ἵνα ἐν αὐτοῖς περιπατήσωμεν.

Amplified: For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live]. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)

NLT: For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so that we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. (NLT - Tyndale House)

NLT (revised) For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

Phillips: The fact is that what we are we owe to the hand of God upon us. We are born afresh in Christ, and born to do those good deeds which God planned for us to do. (Phillips: Touchstone)

Wuest: for we are His handiwork, created in Christ Jesus with a view to good works which God prepared beforehand in order that within their sphere we may order our behavior. (Eerdmans Publishing - used by permission)

Young's Literal: for of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk.

KJV For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

NKJ For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

ESV For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

NET For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.

NIV For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

CSB For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

NRS For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.

NAB For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.

NJB We are God's work of art, created in Christ Jesus for the good works which God has already designated to make up our way of life.

GWN God has made us what we are. He has created us in Christ Jesus to live lives filled with good works that he has prepared for us to do.

BBE For by his act we were given existence in Christ Jesus to do those good works which God before made ready for us so that we might do them.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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after posting 5 different versions you finally found the infamously innacurate paraphrase nlt that says the specific church Peter was writing to was in that specific instance having their specific faith tested in the way fire is used to refine gold?

but it still does not say faith must be tested by fire.
says it right here

Peter 1:7



7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Very little in nature is pure. Elements are either embedded within other elements are are chemically combined in compounds. The way they are separated is by heating them. The elements with the lower boiling point will liquefy and be separated from the other element.
Trials have the same effect on our hearts. The vile and wicked things in our hearts are melted so they can be removed, and the holy and virtuous things that God places there will remain because they are not melted by the heat of the trial.
In this way, we are both purified and strengthened in our faith, and conformed to the image of Christ.
The reasoning is similar but process is the same

Gold has no feeling, gold will be purified anyway.

Faith that is not genuine will not receive purification before the fire is out.

Which means before you die. But still your faith can receive purification after you die.

That would be the faithfull of the old t.

When you first come to the lord you are a member of the old t untill the new t is complete in you.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,195
5,452
113
62
The reasoning is similar but process is the same

Gold has no feeling, gold will be purified anyway.

Faith that is not genuine will not receive purification before the fire is out.

Which means before you die. But still your faith can receive purification after you die.

That would be the faithfull of the old t.

When you first come to the lord you are a member of the old t untill the new t is complete in you.
That's not accurate. There is only in Christ or not in Christ. It may not immediately be evident that life is there. But eventually a woman begins to show that life exists in her womb. So too with the new convert. Newly living things always grow.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,694
13,137
113
says it right here

Peter 1:7



7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold
even in paraphrase it does not say what you have been saying it says.
it does not say all faith must be tested by fire.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,694
13,137
113
Very little in nature is pure. Elements are either embedded within other elements are are chemically combined in compounds. The way they are separated is by heating them. The elements with the lower boiling point will liquefy and be separated from the other element.
Trials have the same effect on our hearts. The vile and wicked things in our hearts are melted so they can be removed, and the holy and virtuous things that God places there will remain because they are not melted by the heat of the trial.
In this way, we are both purified and strengthened in our faith, and conformed to the image of Christ.
fun fact, the boiling point of pure gold is 5,137° F
turn the heat and pressure up enough and gold will vaporize.

but faith is more precious.

nearly impossible to have pure gold - that's why even gold that has been purified by fire still tarnishes.
and every physical substance like gold can and will be completely destroyed, atom by atom, even the atoms themselves being burned away, with enough pressure and heat.

but faith is not physical. it is spiritual.
it is more precious.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
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That's not accurate. There is only in Christ or not in Christ. It may not immediately be evident that life is there. But eventually a woman begins to show that life exists in her womb. So too with the new convert. Newly living things always grow.
you only half a pint glass untill your faith has been purified 😊

This is when boiling point is reached 😂
 
Dec 18, 2023
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fun fact, the boiling point of pure gold is 5,137° F
turn the heat and pressure up enough and gold will vaporize.

but faith is more precious.

nearly impossible to have pure gold - that's why even gold that has been purified by fire still tarnishes.
and every physical substance like gold can and will be completely destroyed, atom by atom, even the atoms themselves being burned away, with enough pressure and heat.

but faith is not physical. it is spiritual.
it is more precious.
when faith becomes golden.

Romans 10:1-3) God's Will is for me to live an honorable life that should silence “ignorant” people. I am free to live however I choose. I choose to be a Servant of the Living God which means that most often silence is golden.

Those who say to much sin.