Not By Works

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Dec 18, 2023
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fun fact, the boiling point of pure gold is 5,137° F
turn the heat and pressure up enough and gold will vaporize.

but faith is more precious.

nearly impossible to have pure gold - that's why even gold that has been purified by fire still tarnishes.
and every physical substance like gold can and will be completely destroyed, atom by atom, even the atoms themselves being burned away, with enough pressure and heat.

but faith is not physical. it is spiritual.
it is more precious.
Even your instructed to test the spirits.

So I will assume your saved, because you don't show any distension.

So if your saved the spirit that is in you should test the spirit.

Why are you instructed to do this.

Many reasons,

One reason is the bible says the lord will test you, and in many verses 😊

I will show you the testing and refining for saved people

Psalm 66:10

For You have tried us, O God;
You have refined us as silver is refined.

Silver is also purified in fire.


But speaking about other tests, the test of your heart and mind.

All this is the lord working with his saved children.

So it's not that it's a bad thing for saved people.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Even your instructed to test the spirits.

So I will assume your saved, because you don't show any distension.

So if your saved the spirit that is in you should test the spirit.

Why are you instructed to do this.

Many reasons,

One reason is the bible says the lord will test you, and in many verses 😊

I will show you the testing and refining for saved people

Psalm 66:10

For You have tried us, O God;
You have refined us as silver is refined.

Silver is also purified in fire.


But speaking about other tests, the test of your heart and mind.

All this is the lord working with his saved children.

So it's not that it's a bad thing for saved people.
i never said testing or tribulation were bad things, and i never said no one is tested.

i said the passage you were using to prove that "all faith must be tested by fire" does not say that all faith must be tested by fire.

because it does not say that, at all.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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i never said testing or tribulation were bad things.

i said the passage you were using to prove that "all faith must be tested by fire" does not say that all faith must be tested by fire.

because it does not say that, at all.
well i look at it, that everyone is in need of refining when they come to the lord.

Because it may not suggest it, in one scripture.

Does not necessarily mean it's not implied
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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you still have to be given
Salvation by God's good will, just because your not worthy or what ever, salvation still has to given To any person.

And any faith must be genuine and be tried by fire
Salvation is offered freely to all, received by faith alone in the form of an empty hand of a beggar.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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the completion of salvation is being resurrected in Christ.

Not one persons salvation is completed until they are resurrected in Christ
2 Timothy 1:9
Holman Christian Standard Bible
He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

You Sir, do not know your Bible as well as you should.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Salvation is offered freely to all, received by faith alone in the form of an empty hand of a beggar.
Scripture clearly says faith is offered freely, salvation however is not given with faith.

Scripture says believe and you will be saved.

Faith comes first then salvation.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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2 Timothy 1:9
Holman Christian Standard Bible
He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

You Sir, do not know your Bible as well as you should.
saying I do not know the bible as i should, is an argumentive statement.

It takes a lifetime to understand God's word, and I'm not a computer.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Scripture clearly says faith is offered freely, salvation however is not given with faith.

Scripture says believe and you will be saved.

Faith comes first then salvation.
Could you kindly define 'faith' and 'believe' by highlighting the difference between the two?

This verse says faith does save us.
Ephesians 2:8 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Could you kindly define 'faith' and 'believe' by highlighting the difference between the two?

This verse says faith does save us.
Ephesians 2:8 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
For by good will you where, saved.

You must learn to express the meaning of the word Grace when you repeat scripture.

It's not wise just to repeat scripture in a discussion, where by we are discussing our views

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

The grace and faith is not of yourself.
It comes from God.

Even the seed of faith comes from God.

When you first believe, it comes from confessin to the lord you need a saviour, the biblical position for this, is down to the father drawing you to the son. Which is more likely down to the fact you know in part right from wrong from your childhood upbringing. And the fact you would have had, an angel that stares back in the face of God. Where by one day you started to ask your mum or dad, is God real.

I believe every child is aware of angels the unseen And God, even babies, and every child has a seed of something in them that keeps them safe until the age of accountability.


There is a seed of belief that is planted, I believe in every person before, they are lead to lord from the father.

But many will reject others will not.

Some will come sooner some later.

But then you have to be grown in faith, before self control is complete.

Anyone who says this can be accomplished in the blink of eye, is foolish, anyone that's say a seed of faith can receive salvation in the moment of belief on the first day, is saving themselves.

It impossibly for faith to establish self control, when upon first belief you neither know him or have seen him.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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You must learn to express the meaning of the word Grace when you repeat scripture.
That's a strange rule, where do I find that in Scripture.
It's not wise just to repeat scripture in a discussion, where by we are discussing our views
Jesus quoted lots of Scripture, especially when confronted by satan. (psst, satan hates God's Word)
I wish you would at least use some Scripture. Do you know one?
That's a good one. :)
 
Dec 18, 2023
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That's a strange rule, where do I find that in Scripture.

Jesus quoted lots of Scripture, especially when confronted by satan. (psst, satan hates God's Word)
I wish you would at least use some Scripture. Do you know one?

That's a good one. :)
The easiest thing to do is to repeat scripture, it's like being a parrot..

Anyone can be a parrot and repeat something, but have little regard for what there repeating.

Somebody can be given mercy, but then choose to give no mercy.

Whilst some people can find disagreement in you, and then choose to disagree with whatever you say.

Such people are repeaters also ( parrots) and have saved themselves.

Because once, and for everyone will be given a call from Father, he will call everyone to his mercy,

But after recieving his mercy some will spit his mercy seed out, or maybe some parrot will steal it before it goes bloom and hatches.

In which case you could be given new mercy seed 😊
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I won't consider you a parrot if you at least tell me where I can find this rule in Scripture

"You must learn to express the meaning of the word Grace when you repeat scripture."

It's fine using Scripture, so long as it is used with precision... something that comes with study and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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I won't consider you a parrot if you at least tell me where I can find this rule in Scripture

"You must learn to express the meaning of the word Grace when you repeat scripture."

It's fine using Scripture, so long as it is used with precision... something that comes with study and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
you personally can have whatever rule you want,

I said you must learn what Grace means, which implies in order to under understand something you have to know what it means, if you want to choose what I said as something personal, then go right ahead, your a free agent, you don't have to find out what Grace means if dont feel it something what you must do.

That is your choice,

But seeing as you believe your saved by Grace, should you not find out what Grace means. 🤔
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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youC,

I said you must learn what Grace means, which implies in order to under understand something you have to know what it means, if you want to choose what I said as something personal, then go right ahead, your a free agent, you don't have to find out what Grace means if dont feel it something what you must do.

That is your choice,

But seeing as you believe your saved by Grace, should you not find out what Grace means. 🤔
Why should I learn from you what grace means since you believe one 'can personally can have whatever rule they want',. Besides, you don't even know my view of grace, you are just assuming..
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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you personally can have whatever rule you want,

I said you must learn what Grace means, which implies in order to under understand something you have to know what it means,
how are you going to know what this word "grace" means, which comes from scripture, if you do not take as its definition the scripture which defines it?

it's not your definition or my definition or crossnote's definition that matters. it's God's definition that matters, and God gave His word, which is scripture.

i find it therefore oddly dismissive of you to liken citing God's word to psittaciformes - particularly in the context of laying out the groundwork for how certain abstract, spiritual concepts form the basis of salvation-- all of which are concepts originating in scripture.

Bible study isn't a personal, philosophical exercise. it's a rigorous examination of scripture. it by very definition necessitates quoting, parsing & examining scripture, and taking scripture as the means by which the terms of scripture are identified and defined. and we happen to be in the 'Bible study' section of a peculiarly Bible-focused website.. so...

to me, there's really no place here to be pooh-poohing the idea of quoting the Bible, in the Bible discussion forum.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Because once, and for everyone will be given a call from Father, he will call everyone to his mercy,
allow me to psittaciformes if you will, if only in order to remind you of what your words indicate you have forgotten:

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For He says to Moses,
I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, Who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh,
"For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.
So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills.
(Romans 9:14-18)
clearly your statement is in opposition to the Word of God, because you say He will have mercy on all -- but He says, He will harden whom He wills to harden, and He sets mercy and hardening in opposition to one another, being contrasting states. so the one being hardened, is not receiving His mercy, and the one receiving His mercy, is not hardened.

what grace then, you yourself receive, in order to say such things and continue to live, so that you can hear His correction!
thanks be to our Lord and Father, our Saviour Jesus Christ, Who chastens us as sons - in order that we might one day grow into men :)
 

fizzyjoe

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2018
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I see this thread is still alive and well, just stopped in to see who's around that I know, Howdy @posthuman 😀,anyways carry on though I might join in been a few years away from the forums,but, I know if I do I had better be sure of Truth and the Bible😀💪🙏
 
Dec 18, 2023
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it is evident that you have not yet observed my midsection.
Lol well as long as you can see your toes when you stand up, theres still hope for you,

Allow me to elaborate, further

As you quoted the correct verse in Romans 9 😊 you should know That God wants all to be saved, and he takes no pleasure in punishing the wicked

It is there for inconceivable to think that God's mercy seed, would harden a person heart, unless he just denied his mercy.

For God gives mercy to whom he loves and God harden whom he hardens.

Should be viewed as First you called and if you don't listen you harden further.

As in Romans it says only the remnant will be saved


What is a remnant ?

A remnant is Small piece that is left over from say a piece of carpet you have layed.

This means that when the far of are called in another scripture, which should mean everybody, it should mean they have been called by God's mercy.

Because For them to listen to the call, it Should be that God has spoke to there heart, scripture is consistent with God knowing your heart.

Well If there heart doest listen then it will not become a part of the remnant, this is also consistent with scripture
It should be then the heart that doesn't listen and. conceive mercy call will by it's own merit harde further.

Scripture is also consistent with this.



As it seems that many will try to save there own life, and lose it. That would also be fitting with the only remnant will be saved.

If the heart listens, then God's mercy seed must have taken hold,

Then it should be common sense that a person will grow love for God and listen.

Then he should believe and be be baptised to become under the new covenant, at this stage he has been saved By Grace (good will) be he has still yet to receive salvation untill he is baptised in fire 😊

As many scriptures indicate Faith needs to be refined😉, and well let's just say self control must take flight also 😊