Not By Works

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Burninglight

Guest



It's anti-christian to warn them to watch after themselves?

It's anti-christian to say something about them arguing with that kind of condition? Where's your empathy?

Their doctor would tell them to stay away from places like the BDF. They could go into the other forums that don't fight.

All you want to do is throw your anti-christian slurs at those that don't agree with you.
Sorry, but I am really bad at acronyms what is BDF? And what do you actually mean by "It's anti-christian to warn them to watch after themselves?" Let ask you a point blank question: What do you believe a person must do to be saved?
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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The BDF is the forum that you are in right now. Though it SHOULD be more accurately renamed the Bible Argument Forum.. LOL


Sorry, but I am really bad at acronyms what is BDF? And what do you actually mean by "It's anti-christian to warn them to watch after themselves?" Let ask you a point blank question: What do you believe a person must do to be saved?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Progress

A faith of anxiety. The question needs to be asked, is anyone in the grace camp who does
not have an anxiety problem?

I ask this because the theology is about security and knowing you are safe no matter what.
Now I do know what anxiety is. I remember a few months ago waking up whinning and wimpering.
I do not know why, but I did know this was unusual for me.

I want you to know I know Christ loves me, because I know the cross and Jesus dying for me on it.
I do not need to know more than this, it is healing to my heart and soul, my mind and my strength.

And I deserve the 2nd death, for my sins, my thefts, my sexual desires, my envy, my anger, my
coveting, my swearing, my lying, my dishonouring my parents. But I have repented, confessed and
am washed clean, purified and made whole, with love working in my heart. I am a redeemed saint,
following my Lord. I do not earn this place, but I would dishonour my Lord by not obeying and following.
It would be a sin to not listen and obey, because I am a slave to righteousness.

Paul says it like this,
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 Cor 11:1

Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do.
Phil 3:17

For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example.
2 Thess 3:7

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thess 2:10

So we are to be "holy, righteous and blameless".

But this comes by looking at ones heart and letting God minister love and grace
to your soul, and repenting, confessing and putting ones faith in Christ for specific
sins and their working through.
 
W

willybob

Guest
Hi Willybob,
This is such a great and true post, but a bit difficult to read.
I'm going to put some paragraphs, if you don't mind.
(for those reading along...)

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

The new-generation hyper grace people don't understand the word "grace".

They only see grace as favor, and something pleasing to the flesh. Most were born into the age of lustful entitlement, and it also bleeds through in their lack of understanding of the gospel .They don't see the full definition of grace, and the empowerment of the Spirit to live holy.

This empowerment of the Spirit (the Spirit of Grace) could only be sent because of the finished works of Christ, establishing the new covenant, whereby men no longer need to live a life of sin, but can be made free from the bondage of sin...

The entitlement society thinks they are entitled to Christ's righteous, rather than being righteous through faith...Luthers magical transfer on steroids, taken to its most extreme levels...the longer it gets handed down in the generations, the more greasy the grace becomes...

That's why so many love the lies of Joseph Prince, the false prophet for the gullible and entitlement seekers...The power of suggestion (superstitions) have conditioned their minds into believing they are entitled to Christ's righteousness, because its so much easier than righteousness by faith, picking up your cross, crucify the flesh, and walking in holiness...

flesh will always take the path of least resistance..that's why it has to be put to death in the baptism of repentance, or it will always reign and be our master, Gen 4-7

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

I happen to like Joseph Prince. He's very good at teaching. It's unfortunate that he IS a hyper-grace preacher.
He does say that this does not give a license to sin... but in the end, it is exactly what it does since no responsibility is placed on US but it is all placed on Jesus. Common sense alone tells us this cannot be true.

Thanks for some really good thoughts.
thank you for all that you do its greatly appreciated Fran....sometimes it seems as if I am at war with many here, but the real truth is i am at war with the false hoods they teach...Its has to be nothing about me, no axes to grind, but rather its all about Jesus, lest it all be wood, hay, and stubble. The bitter root of resentment is Satan's key device, 2 Cor 2, I must always hold fast to that warning, lest I become a castaway also...my hope is that others will see the truth contrasted against the many false hoods presented here, even presented by some sincere people, however sincerely deceived..I do get angry at times with the same old reformation dogma, whereas I have to depart for a while lest the sun set upon my anger, of the which Satan........be blessed

in regards to Joseph Prince.. he, like almost all of them was raised up through the system....when money and fame enter the gospel the truth has to be compromised, the wealth and fame demands that this be, and will not take a second seat to anything....early genesis referenced such false prophets to be giants/tyrants in the earth, the mighty men of renown...
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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I know some here will disagree with this, but I really don't care. There is no such thing as hyper grace. The bible doesn't mention one word about hyper grace. Grace is grace, pure and simple. :) Adding hype, hypo, hyper whatever to it is just adding to the word of God and we aren't supposed to do that..
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Here is another scenario for people to consider.
My wife and I have come alongside two couples. Recently have become believers in Christ.
Both couples have been together for a long time, by that I mean many many years. Both couples live together.
Couple A have a child together. The bloke suffers with severe anxiety and issues due to severe sexual abuse by his step dad.
But they are a family unit.

Couple B have both been divorced and the bloke suffers from severe bipolar.
My guess is both couples engage in nookie.
How would you come alongside them?
What would you say, how would work with them?
Can I ask you to just say what you would do and advise.
No detracting from the issue at hand with other scenarios.
One of things I do like about your posts is your focus on love and it's working in us.
So let me know how you would love these couples.
Ta
After the interesting background stuff, these are difficult situations.
My first point is, couples though not married in a legal sense are married emotionally.
So my first point is to get to know the issue of commitment and fear they have with
each other and to establish real love and appreciation of each other along with proper
boundaries.

The goal is to encourage love and forgiveness between all parties and to turn a loose
relationship into a life long commitment honoured by the Lord.

It can though take years, and one step at a time. My first point of call would be discipleship
and the examples of people in difficult circumstances. When our security in love and Christ is
firmly founded, many other things fall into place.

Talking personally, my relationship with my wife took 3 years to establish, and we are still growing
25 years later. Love is fantastic, when the emotional boundaries and commitments are clear.

This is my take on this, but actually being there with people and learning their own life language
changes how one would express these things and when and where. God bless.
 
W

willybob

Guest
Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ,for that is all we can do because we are in the flesh,and have not received the Spirit yet.

Faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,and a person has to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling,after they receive the Spirit,for then the responsibility falls on them to maintain their salvation,for the Spirit will not force them to live for God,and act like Christ,but they must keep making the choice to allow the Spirit to lead them,and abstain from sin,and do works of the Spirit,to have saving faith active in their life.

James pointed out that if a person does not help the poor and needy,then faith without works is dead,and Paul said they have erred from the faith,and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.

Paul said necessity was laid on him to preach the Gospel,and woe is him if he does not preach the Gospel,and Jesus told the saints to preach the Gospel to every creature.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish the law,and the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,which are the laws of love,moral laws.

And do not depart from the living God,by the deceitfulness of sin.

And be righteous,and sin not.

And blessed is the person that is tempted,but does not sin,for they shall receive a crown of life,given to all the saints who love Christ,so this is eternal life,and do not err brethren,but abstain from sin.

We have to have works of the Spirit to have saving faith in our life,which is to preach the Gospel,help the poor and needy,abstain from sin,and anything else that is of goodness.

They say works does not save us,but the point is a matter of obedience,for if we do not do the works of the Spirit,then we are disobedient to the will of God,and the works of God,and to obey is better than sacrifice.

The Bible says we are to cast down all imaginations,and bring every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Therefore works does save us,for if we do not do the works,then saving faith is not active in our life,and we are being disobedient to God for not doing the works that He requires us to do.

They make excuses that sin does not affect their relationship with God,but if they are disobedient here are some things the Bible says about it,they have erred from the faith,erred from the truth,their faith is dead,they will be cut off,they are not of the Father,the love of God does not dwell in them.

Many are called but few are chosen,and not everybody that confessed Christ received the Spirit,but they can correct it if they understand that sin does affect their relationship with God,for they have been called,for no person can say Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost,but they have to be chosen by understanding sin does affect their relationship with God,which some are ever learning,and never able to understand this truth,because they do not want to give up sin.

If we have the means to help the poor and needy,and we do not do it,then we are being disobedient to God.

If we do not abstain from sin led by the Spirit,then we are being disobedient to God.

If we do not get out and preach the Gospel,then we are being disobedient to God.

Quench not the Spirit,and be obedient to God,and do the works that He requires of you.

They say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,but there are millions of people that claim Christ,that enjoy sin,worldliness,neglect the poor and needy,which they are being disobedient to God,and faith is not active in their life.

They cannot abstain from sin is a strange statement,because they do it willingly,and were not forced to sin,and if they did not want sin,they could abstain from sin by the Spirit,but the point is they want sin.

That is the whole point behind their beliefs,that it is faith alone,even though that means when we confess Christ,not after we receive the Spirit,we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,and we do not have to do works to be saved,so that they can enjoy sin.

That is the whole point behind their beliefs,so they can enjoy sins,and the pleasures of this world.

So they took out everything that would give them responsibility,that would cause them to fall,so they can enjoy sins,and think they are alright with God.

Their whole belief system is so they can enjoy worldliness,and still be right with God.

That is why a person cannot convince them otherwise,and they will not adhere to scriptures,for their belief system is because they like sin,and do no not want to give it up.
very true Matt, thanks for defending the faith once delivered to the saints,,,yes works and good deeds can not save us, for only the mercy of God can forgive past sins to those that should repent and believe. after that we are workers together with God preserving our salvation in the hope of eternal life....the mercy of God was justified to be dispensed because of the works of Jesus and His precious blood atonement,
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I know some here will disagree with this, but I really don't care. There is no such thing as hyper grace. The bible doesn't mention one word about hyper grace. Grace is grace, pure and simple. :) Adding hype, hypo, hyper whatever to it is just adding to the word of God and we aren't supposed to do that..
Amen.....and the only ones who like to add to grace are the ones who push "CAINOLOGY"
 
Aug 15, 2009
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I know some here will disagree with this, but I really don't care. There is no such thing as hyper grace. The bible doesn't mention one word about hyper grace. Grace is grace, pure and simple. :) Adding hype, hypo, hyper whatever to it is just adding to the word of God and we aren't supposed to do that..
OSAS isn't in the Bible but it's real.:rolleyes:
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You're the one that started this, that's your motive.

Wasn't mine.
More deception here.....You have no ability to be honest....serious....I started nothing, but made a general statement about standing with two particular men of the which you made the false accusation...

You take the cake pal for dishonesty.....is that how workers for keep their salvation?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I know some here will disagree with this, but I really don't care. There is no such thing as hyper grace. The bible doesn't mention one word about hyper grace. Grace is grace, pure and simple. :) Adding hype, hypo, hyper whatever to it is just adding to the word of God and we aren't supposed to do that..
The above makes me laugh. It summarises the communication problems here.
HG is used to define a series of beliefs which have formed a school of theology at chooses
to agressively disown and attack other believers as being evil and anti-christian.

As a label it works to identify who conforms to this belief system and who does not.

Like many aligned with the group, the idea they might be outside traditional faith is not
their view, we are outside faith, they have just discovered its reality.

But this is always the problem of subjective perspectives, each speaker is where everyone
should be, because they have the "truth" and the others are too blind to see it, lol.:cool:
 
Aug 15, 2009
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More deception here.....You have no ability to be honest....serious....I started nothing, but made a general statement about standing with two particular men of the which you made the false accusation...

You take the cake pal for dishonesty.....is that how workers for keep their salvation?

Here's where it all started.....

Originally Posted by Stephen63

It's not healthy nor wise for anyone with anxiety or depression to be on the BDF. There's too much stress here.
Another anti-Christian comment......yeah, let us cut off those who need encouragement......you have serious issues....!
Now who's being dishonest?
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Well, the bible proves you wrong. :) It says the ONLY way to lose salvation is to deny God, Jesus and the HS. To deny absolutely that they ever existed.. Take it up with God, I'm only speaking the truth. :eek:


OSAS isn't in the Bible but it's real.:rolleyes:
 
Feb 24, 2015
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More deception here.....You have no ability to be honest....serious....I started nothing, but made a general statement about standing with two particular men of the which you made the false accusation...

You take the cake pal for dishonesty.....is that how workers for keep their salvation?
dc - you love labels. "deception" "no ability to be honest" "You take the cake pal for dishonesty"

Are you are meds as well? Maybe you are just addicted to baseball, see a few ideas and want
to hit people out of the park. Which version of Jesus did you see Him doing this?
Stephen is very honest and speaks it as he sees it. I might not agree with everything he writes
but he is very honest and straightforward. It then makes me wonder who are you?
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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1. Those who use hyper grace, are sorely deluded in their beliefs.

2. Anyone who reads, and understands, what's in their bible, have the truth. :cool:


The above makes me laugh. It summarises the communication problems here.
HG is used to define a series of beliefs which have formed a school of theology at chooses
to agressively disown and attack other believers as being evil and anti-christian.

As a label it works to identify who conforms to this belief system and who does not.

Like many aligned with the group, the idea they might be outside traditional faith is not
their view, we are outside faith, they have just discovered its reality.

But this is always the problem of subjective perspectives, each speaker is where everyone
should be, because they have the "truth" and the others are too blind to see it, lol.:cool: