Not By Works

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Apr 30, 2016
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What proves these "works and law" people are wrong is David who committed adultery and use murder as a cover it up; and yet, God considered him a man after His own heart; why? because God gave him is righteousness for the asking like God gives us for the asking through Jesus.

We are all free to choose what we do, but like David we are not free from the consequences of our choices, but our sin was paid for if you are not trying to earn salvation with the law and works. Those who don't accept the gift of salvation as God intended it, they are not meeting God on His terms, and that is to their own spiritual peril. They can't say we didn't warn them on CC! I am sure they heard it at church too. No one dies a spiritual death blind folded.
Oh my.

You also believe our doctrine saves us and not Jesus???
What if I have my doctrine all wrong, but I love Jesus and do my best to please Him... I'm lost???
 
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willybob

Guest
You are mistaken, your identity in Christ comes from Christ. It is not something that you can or will accomplish by what you do or don't do. It's not about seeking an identity, it is about Him giving us our identity by what He did. When you are born again and receive the Holy Spirit, that is our new full identity in Christ.

Scripture testifies that we have received everything for life and godliness. And that we HAVE been blessed in the heavenly realms with EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ.


That sounds pretty final to me. Seeking done, He has been found. And a new man in Christ created.
why do they keep the old man alive then?

the whole idea of virtual reality (Gnostic dualism) came from the mind of Plato, and brought into what is called Christianity by Augustine..Both were masters of rhetoric..However this concept is not found anywhere in the scriptures...The forgone truth of scripture is manifest reality..There is a huge difference between the two...
 
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Billy im going to share something with you now.. I met a person who had the spirit and he lifted my possession ,,, the possesion was there the spirt came out of me and then went back in.. he saw the possesion in me... This real billy lad...

ive been singing all day driving and being happy.. at one time billy i was in tears coz my traumas amd my heart is deeply effected... i have a complex post traumatic stress disorder ,, which is multiple trauma disorder... more than one..

traumas that would make you scared of the outdoors traumas that would make you crap your pants when theres a knock on the door that brings the traumas back..

On top of that i have suffered with sever anxiet attacks enough that would make you fall down to the ground (ie your knees go week and suffer a severe breathing attack.. it starts with a flush normall for me and my legs go week.. then i collaspe..


there still deep rooted and are trying to come out... they cant...

A multiple complex disorder is when trumas has happend a long time ago but are now only just starting to come out to the service theyve been hidden burries coz you couldnt deal with them..

This in medical terms is called the mind putting that memory in reserve and only letting it release when it feals it has to or your always going to suffer..

Sadly billy lad this is lifetime suffering ill call it and not an illnes..... same for you your anxiety is an illness but more of a suffering..

I have many tricks to beet it which i would be happy to share with and the first is singing this song as loud as possible all day over and over with heart whilst driving :)

[video=youtube;YRV9rqubkPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRV9rqubkPE[/video]
Will be praying for you JIMBO.
We're certainly not in heaven yet...
Could you imagine if we didn't know God??
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Some people just assume things too often, D. Some just can't take a joke.. I posted the coffee gif as a pun on your "cafe blend" phrase.. :) There was no mocking of sin at all..
Yeah I know.....exactly why he made number 2 on my list of ignore.....nothing of relevance and argumentative non stop while embellishing or taking out of context what we say....
 
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willybob

Guest
Those that believe in the virtual reality of Penal Substitution, many of them even openly subscribe to the carnal-Christian myth,,,

to put it plainly, those that still commit the vile sins of the flesh, but somehow believe they can still reside within the kingdom, based on an imaginary position.....
 
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willybob

Guest
sometimes it seems to me the common consensus is that if someone is obeying God, keeping His commandments, and blameless like Zacharias and Elisabeth, is the worst sin of all..
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Oh my.

You also believe our doctrine saves us and not Jesus???
What if I have my doctrine all wrong, but I love Jesus and do my best to please Him... I'm lost???
There is but 1 (one) way, not 2, 3 or 50.......exactly why Paul covers gospels of a DIFFERENT KIND which have no power to save having been double cursed and false........

Just saying...
 
Apr 30, 2016
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What happens if you don't?
If you don't follow God's commandments, you're not a friend of Jesus...

John 14.15
John 15:14
John 15.1-6
John 14:21
John 10:27-28
John 5:28-29

It's not me saying it Ariel, John was with Jesus for over three years.
I think He knows what is needed to be a disciple of Jesus and to be saved.

Deuteronomy 30:15, 19
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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Those that believe in the virtual reality of Penal Substitution, many of them even openly subscribe to the carnal-Christian myth,,,

to put it plainly, those that still commit the vile sins of the flesh, but somehow believe they can still reside within the kingdom, based on an imaginary position.....
I'm not sure, what all that means. I don't defend other people's beliefs. I can only testify to what is in scripture.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Why would MMD or anyone else admit that, that would be lik saying everything they stand for is wrong, that the gospel they preach is wrong, that the cross is not enough, that we can earn our salvation,

and demanding we we must admit that works are required or we do not know Christ, wow, that is just so typical

You asking us to admit that works are required,and not like we say, an automatic response, is no different that we asking you t admit you are trying to earn your salvation. Yet you do not like that do you?


It's not me saying works are necessary EG. The Writers of the N.T. say it.
I really don't know HOW you get the idea that works are NOT necessary.

Did you read the post I just wrote to Ariel?
Look up those verses that John says. JOHN. NOt ME.

JESUS SAID WHAT JOHN IS REPEATING.

JESUS SAID WORKS ARE NECESSARY, NOT ME.

HE said the IF you're His friend, you will obey His commandments.

Seems like simple English to me.

What do the verses I posted mean to YOU?

How do you explain them away??

What surprises me is that you say you know what sanctification means.
It doesn't seem like it to me...
It seems like you're afraid of the word "works".

Just because YOU had a bad experience with a particular Church DOES NOT change the doctrines set forth in the bible.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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sometimes it seems to me the common consensus is that if someone is obeying God, keeping His commandments, and blameless like Zacharias and Elisabeth, is the worst sin of all..
Most times, if not ALL the time it seems you push "CAINOLOGY" and a must be kept working for sinless perfectionist pseudo salvation that undermines the grace of God that out bounds our sin and a weak Jesus that cannot keep his promises....

OH WAIT....exactly what you teach.......
 
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It's not me saying works are necessary EG. The Writers of the N.T. say it.
I really don't know HOW you get the idea that works are NOT necessary.

Did you read the post I just wrote to Ariel?
Look up those verses that John says. JOHN. NOt ME.

JESUS SAID WHAT JOHN IS REPEATING.

JESUS SAID WORKS ARE NECESSARY, NOT ME.

HE said the IF you're His friend, you will obey His commandments.

Seems like simple English to me.

What do the verses I posted mean to YOU?

How do you explain them away??

What surprises me is that you say you know what sanctification means.
It doesn't seem like it to me...
It seems like you're afraid of the word "works".

Just because YOU had a bad experience with a particular Church DOES NOT change the doctrines set forth in the bible.
Actually the bible states that FAITH ALONE is what saves and justifies before GOD.....and Paul who was inspired also states that to embellish faith and works to finish salvation is a false gospel with no power, double cursed and not the gospel that Paul preached.....
 
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Ariel82

Guest
If you don't follow God's commandments, you're not a friend of Jesus...

John 14.15
John 15:14
John 15.1-6
John 14:21
John 10:27-28
John 5:28-29

It's not me saying it Ariel, John was with Jesus for over three years.
I think He knows what is needed to be a disciple of Jesus and to be saved.

Deuteronomy 30:15, 19
That is not an answer to my question.

I asked then what happens...not what you judge people to be.

I actually agree that Jesus friends follows His commandments because they are Mature and rooted in Christ.

What you seem to have trouble with is how God teaches His children and how babes in Christ are still His Kids.

God chastens and teaches His Kids to obey.., it doesn't happen automatically.
 
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Sep 6, 2014
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John 6:29
Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Romans 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Peter and Judas were with Jesus for quite awhile, too. They were his friends.. UNTIL one sold him out for money and the other outright denied that he knew Him.. :/


If you don't follow God's commandments, you're not a friend of Jesus...

John 14.15
John 15:14
John 15.1-6
John 14:21
John 10:27-28
John 5:28-29

It's not me saying it Ariel, John was with Jesus for over three years.
I think He knows what is needed to be a disciple of Jesus and to be saved.

Deuteronomy 30:15, 19
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I don't hear anyone else calling my post silly. What's silly about it? Yes, I do know Christ (John 17:3). Many people know "about" Him but they don't truly know Him because they don't truly BELIEVE. If you are a genuine Christian then it's not about must do good works but WILL do good works. Genuine believers are a friend of Jesus and doing what He commands is the demonstrative evidence of that. Everything with you is MUST or else! Obedience is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers. If you have truly placed your faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation, then why do you have so much faith in works for salvation?
Read this and tell me how it's not silly to anyone who is not just starting to learn their faith:

If someone died the same day that they genuinely placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (like the thief on the cross) and was unable to accomplish multiple acts of obedience afterwards (the thief was not even able to get water baptized prior to his death on the same day of his conversion) yet he still had faith.

You're asking me if I'm a genuine Christian. Do you doubt it? If I do good works that makes me NOT be a genuine Christian?
Are we finally down to the last line?

Here's what you say:

Obedience is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers

This is VERY wrong.
OBEDIENCE IS FORCED.

I have faith in works for salvation because this is what JESUS taught and also PAUL and also JAMES and also JOHN and everyone else that wrote in the N.T.

Have you studied theology?
You must know what sanctification is.
I'm not repeating it. But you should find out.

It explains how you ARE to obey God and work for Him and with Him for your holiness.

You shouldn't be happy thinking you don't have to obey GOD.
You should be happy to obey your Savior and your Lord.

Some are happy to have Jesus as Savior.
But they are not happy about having Him as Lord.
IF He IS your Lord, then you MUST OBEY Him and do as He says.

It's not optional.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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John 6:29
Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Romans 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
AMEN....faith all the way..........and the works, fruit is a result of Christ in us and us in Christ ALREADY by faith and salvation....

the results of NOT FOR salvation........end of story....!
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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We don't have to do works for gaining or keeping salvation..

We DO have to do works to be able to show God's love to others through us..

It ain't rocket science, people. Even a 5 year old can comprehend it..