Not By Works

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Nov 22, 2015
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Sometimes we think some truths are new but in reality they are not. Here is someone back in the 1800's that had a supposedly "heretical" understanding of grace in the form of our sins being forgiven and those sins were continually being washed by the blood of Jesus.

I was reading about a hymn writer from the 1800's called Frances Ridley Havergal. She wrote many hymns and knew Latin, French, German, Greek and Hebrew.

She also knew by heart the 4 gospels, epistles and the book of Revelation by the time she was 23 years old - yet she still lived in total defeat.


She thought she had "great wickedness in her heart" - because of religious traditions taught to her which is what humanistic belief systems believe. They think Christians are a "new evolution" and thus they need to create and maintain their own self-righteousness.

It wasn't until she was reading in the Greek that the present tense was used for 1 John 1:7 "...His blood cleanseth us from all sin".

She realized all her sins were forgiven by the blood of Jesus and thus she believed it and experienced peace and joy in her life because of this truth and lived a holier life.

Here is a direct QUOTE:

" Have we not been limiting 1 John 1:7 , by practically making it refer only to "remission of sins that are past" instead of taking the grand simplicity of "cleanseth from all sin"?


"All" is all; and as we may trust Him to cleanse us from the stain of past sins so we may trust Him to cleanse us from all present defilement; yes, all!

By refusing to take 1 John 1:7 in it's fullness, we will lose the fullness of it's application and power in our lives. It goes on cleansing , and I have no words to tell how my heart rejoices in it."

UNQUOTE:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=zO_...%22%3F&f=false

She got the revelation that all her sins were forgiven because she was in Christ and thus always in the Light and His blood continually cleansed her. She was able to walk free in Christ from that point on. Today she would be called a heretic and being in error by some for having this belief.

Not understanding what happened in the circumcision of the heart where the body of flesh is "cut away" from the inner man in Christ will cause false doctrines like "sinless perfection in the flesh." to come about.


Believing the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ finished work on the cross and resurrection will change us as we grow in His grace. We grow in His grace by the "hearing of Christ Himself".

Here is a book for those interested in her life: Jennie Chappell, "Women Who Have Worked and Won: the life story of Mrs. Spurgeon, Mrs. Booth-Tucker, F.R. Havergal, and Ramabai," London: S.W. Partridge & Co. Ltd. 1904
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Don't I Always hear on this thread that the law is to teach us about sin?

Well, is it or isn't it?????

Why do you think God gave the Israelites the Law to begin with?
Do you think it might be because they were slaves for almost 400 years and had forgotten what it meant to be civil?

Children must learn to be civil, as do some adults.
Do I automatically know how to love my neighbor if I don't even know what A SIN IS??

Did you know that most kids feel they've never sinned?

I've taught kdis for years. Give me a LITTLE TINY BIT of credit.
no Fran, that s wrong

the law is to lead us to Christ, because we can not fulfill the law. Not to teach us about sin.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Maybe he said it 55 pages ago.

I don't spend all my time here.
I reply to each post individually.
That's all I have to go by...
he said it today, why is it everyone heard him say it but you, and maybe Stephen or Peter? Maybe that should tell you something
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
My best day was when I tossed out all my John MacArthur books!!!

Jesus is Lord.

Paul is talking about confessing Him as Lord by believing in the gospel, and in doing so dying to own efforts and control.

This is starkly contrasted with a works based mentality.

Nothing could possibly be further from the meaning of
Romans 10:9 than the usual idea proffered about “making” Him Lord by promising or vowing a more stringent obedience.

We die – we throw this all away. We fall completely and totally on His mercy and His mercy alone. He is already Lord, and He has been before the beginning of time. We do not make Him Lord – we confess Him as Lord




Fran, it seems your alter ego is none other than JOHN MACARTHUR!
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Your sarcastic humor may not be appreciated by some.....

Someone is gonna take you seriously.
I believe the person to whom I am speaking is intelligent enough to understand...
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Galatians 3 did call the law the schoolmaster that brought one to faith.



Gal 3:24  And so the Law was our guardian until the Messiah came, so that we might be justified by faith. 
Gal 3:25  But now that faith has come about, we are no longer under a guardian. 


 
Apr 30, 2016
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How would YOU know how intelligent he is? Or how many books he's read? Are you psychic now?
Blue, you'd be surprised.

With my background, which you don't know,
I could tell how intelligent someone is after two or three posts.

I know for sure Desdichado is very intelligent and has has read many books.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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The gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection is really a mystery to the humanistic belief system which is really operating from the world's way of thinking.

The humanistic mindset doesn't see the new heart in Christ, they don't see the new creation created in righteousness and holiness and thus the gospel is still a mystery to them. They don't see the circumcision of Christ where the inner man in Christ is "cut away" from the flesh.

They need to create and maintain their own self-righteousness by what they do or don't do and thus nullify the very grace of God that is needed for real transformation by the Spirit of God. 2 Cor. 3:17-18.

Brethren - we are not redeemed until our next failure
.
The blood of the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of better things.

We have eternal redemption
because of what Christ has already done and the fact that we are one spirit with Him. In Him we have eternal redemption through His blood - not by what we do or don't do.

Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.


Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

We have = present tense - present tense is always present tense. When tomorrow comes - it will be present tense then too.

Does this make us want to go out and sin all we want? No, a thousand times No! Of course not - why?

Because "knowing this truth" releases the grace of God in our lives to operate to produce His life in and through us. Jesus said
"You shall know the truth and that truth shall make you free."

It's time to "repent and believe the gospel" like Jesus said in Mark 1:15 After all it is not called the "good news" for no reason.

We have a great and wondrous salvation but it is all in Christ and what He has already done. We receive this all by grace through faith. As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him in like manner.
 
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willybob

Guest
the persecution coming is not going to be from Islam, its going to come from professed Christians that deny His Lordship...has happened many times in the past..right now they have laws to restraining such evil, but that is going to deminish in the future as the one world gooberment is being set in place.....the most feared person to them is one who lives holy, they despise holiness with a passion..the venom can be seen in some right on this forum.....
 
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joefizz

Guest
It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
ok back to what this thread was originally about,being saved is about humbly asking God to save your soul and accepting Jesus as your saviour,sincerely in your own words to God,as for salvation it self,salvation still requires good works for are we to say that the idle who are saved obtain heaven seeing as that they are sluggards,nay for one must be hot or cold for God not luke warm,and of a certainty you know whom is"truly" saved by their fruits(works)people take it too often to their heads in this world that just because you are saved that you no longer have to do anything for God or worse yet they believe that they can do sin all they want and somehow still receive heaven,well if there be any so foolish here is a little scripture to set you straight...Jesus said,"not all who say unto me lord lord shall enter unto heaven" many people believe this to be just for the lost and sin sick nay this is for the saved as well for if you do nothing with what knowledge God has given you out of appreciation for God saving your soul then how can you enter heaven,seeing as that if you are saved and do nothing that all that is evident is that you have not done anything for God,mere faith is not enough for if one believes that they are saved and will go to heaven,this doesn't make their statement true,we are indeed to be vigilant of Jesus's return,but if we are to sit around waiting and do nothing for God then why is there this scipture?..."Ye men of Galilee,why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus,which is taken up from you into heaven,shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven"Acts chapter 1 verse 11,so you see though we be saved we are not to be idle or merely gazing into heaven waiting on Jesus for when he does come he expects that "We" will have led as many souls to God as possible,being saved is not some run of the mill"guarantee" that you will enter into heaven,it is a means to start learning God's word through the holy spirit and eventually leading others to God,do not be fooled,being saved is not a free pass to sin nor to be idle,if you believe this then Satan is whom is telling you this,for since when has God ever been glad of the idle? or when has God ever said in his word that salvation is all that is required for heaven? God is long suffering that all are to be led to repentance,if salvation is all we need then here is a bigger question,what use are we then to God? if we take what God gives us and we do not seek to add unto God then we have failed him but our pride gets us to believe we have done right for God by doing so,being saved is not the end of your work for God it is the beginning,when you are done for God is when you take your final breathe after working righteous ly for God, plain and simple!
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Words like music to my ears!!

:D


Brethren - we are not redeemed until our next failure. The blood of the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of better things.

We have eternal redemption
because of what Christ has already done and the fact that we are one spirit with Him. In Him we have eternal redemption through His blood - not by what we do or don't do.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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OK Limey,

I'm starting to understand what part of the problem is on this thread.

Everybody here reads the bible but few study theology.

So...
YOU don't understand about Penal Substitution. That comes from studying theology.
YOU don't understand about the Kingdom. That comes from studying theology.

Apparently Willybob HAS studied theology, so he knows about the above concepts.
Study up.
[FONT=&quot]1Corinthians1: 19-21

19
For it is written:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Theology is the study of God, it is most certainly not the knowledge of Him.

Call me foolish and uneducated. I will take that over any theologian. Whatever your theological menu item you choose, that is entirely up to you.
If you wish to count yourself intelligent and wise because of your "knowledge" of God through theology, then have at it.
I will take my knowing Him through the gift of the Holy Spirit as testified in the bible any day of the week.

Frankly or should I say Fran C ly, your attitude is rude and condescending and isn't worth the keyboard sweat it came from.[/FONT]
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Blue, you'd be surprised.

With my background, which you don't know,
I could tell how intelligent someone is after two or three posts.

I know for sure Desdichado is very intelligent and has has read many books.
WOW...........!!!!
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Fran, for heavens sake..pick up your bible.

Paul received revelation when he was caught up the throne of God in heaven...straight from the mouth of Jesus.
I will if you give me the scripture.

And what exactly is the above replying to?

That I trust Jesus more than I trust Paul??