Obedience Required?
- Thread starter Wansvic
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You make a great point. "Truly believing His words changes everything."
Notice that Peter's message on the Day of Pentecost was actually initiated by Jesus as expressed by Luke's words in Acts 1:2; "Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:"
Peter's message (prompted by Jesus) was to individuals who already believed in Jesus. Yet he clearly makes the point that those who repent and submit to being baptized (water) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin can expect to receive the Holy Ghost.
Belief and obedience to God-given commands is key. Whether it relates to one's spiritual rebirth experience, or pursuing a Godly lifestyle afterward.
Notice that Peter's message on the Day of Pentecost was actually initiated by Jesus as expressed by Luke's words in Acts 1:2; "Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:"
Peter's message (prompted by Jesus) was to individuals who already believed in Jesus. Yet he clearly makes the point that those who repent and submit to being baptized (water) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin can expect to receive the Holy Ghost.
Belief and obedience to God-given commands is key. Whether it relates to one's spiritual rebirth experience, or pursuing a Godly lifestyle afterward.
Some mistake that receiving the Holy Ghost takes place at the moment a person is baptized in water. Scripture refutes this idea. What it does not refute is that an obedient person who repents and gets water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is given the promise they will receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38-40) As such, if they were not spontaneously indwelt at the time of, or some time shortly after being water baptized, they can ask for the Holy Ghost and be confident God will honor His promise. (Luke 11:13, Acts 8:12-18) Others receive the Holy Ghost first, and are commanded to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus as well. (Acts 2:38, 10:47-48) Both are essential parts of the NT spiritual rebirth.
P
So what is obedience?
Many will say it is the great commission but that is only part of it.
Be ye holy as your father is holy....called to be holy...set apart for his purposes. A example and light to the world.
Not my will but thine be done Lord...giving yourself as a living sacrafice.
Seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness then all will be added on to you.
The restoration begins with you and i...being transformed by the renewing of our minds.
It begins with understanding the spirit of the law and not the letter of it.
Allowing God to wash away those things which are not of him.
To become empty vessles willing and ready to be filled with his anointing.
How wreckless it would be to give a un undisciplined child a lit candle or book of matches.?
We see that the first acts of the apostles were coming together in one accord...this is key.
Putting away any differences doctrine or otherwise. Racial, heritage, seeking God first.
All of us need fine tuning. No one with the exception of one Christ Jesus has all the answers.
There forth be humble.
Which is more important that they beleive as you do...or that they beleive in the son who was sent.
Paul preached this in detail. Peters rooftop experience shows this that even after his upper room experience he held on to the dietary law untill shown otherwise...by God.
We are to become fishers of men...planters of the fields....sowers. caring and nurturing...but the harvest belongs to the Lord.
Many will say it is the great commission but that is only part of it.
Be ye holy as your father is holy....called to be holy...set apart for his purposes. A example and light to the world.
Not my will but thine be done Lord...giving yourself as a living sacrafice.
Seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness then all will be added on to you.
The restoration begins with you and i...being transformed by the renewing of our minds.
It begins with understanding the spirit of the law and not the letter of it.
Allowing God to wash away those things which are not of him.
To become empty vessles willing and ready to be filled with his anointing.
How wreckless it would be to give a un undisciplined child a lit candle or book of matches.?
We see that the first acts of the apostles were coming together in one accord...this is key.
Putting away any differences doctrine or otherwise. Racial, heritage, seeking God first.
All of us need fine tuning. No one with the exception of one Christ Jesus has all the answers.
There forth be humble.
Which is more important that they beleive as you do...or that they beleive in the son who was sent.
Paul preached this in detail. Peters rooftop experience shows this that even after his upper room experience he held on to the dietary law untill shown otherwise...by God.
We are to become fishers of men...planters of the fields....sowers. caring and nurturing...but the harvest belongs to the Lord.
They can expect to be commanded to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. Because both are essential parts of the NT spiritual rebirth.
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. " Acts 2:39
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. " Acts 2:39
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Many are not willing to obey.
They confess Christ but they have not received the Spirit yet.
Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Some people have a form of living for God but they deny the Spirit leading them because they hold on to sin and are led of the flesh in which they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, and are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth that they have to allow the Spirit to lead them and abstain from sin but they believe they are right with God when they hold on to sin.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
There is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lust of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
The people that are led of the Spirit are not under the law because they are not sinning therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
If a person sins they have forfeited repentance and are back under the law until they repent and do not want the sin anymore.
God will not allow a saint to be tempted above what they are able to handle and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.
So there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin.
But we might sin because we still have a choice but we need to repent of the sin and move forward in the Spirit.
Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
People who hold on to sin believing they are right with God do not fear Him because they do not depart from evil and God will punish all people that hold on to evil and if they hold on to sin the blood of Christ cannot wash it away because God will not take away a sin they are holding on to.
The Bible says charity, love in action, is greater than faith which John said love not in words, nor in tongue, but in deeds and truth, and faith works by love.
Love is the fulfilling of the law so if we do not have love in action then our faith does not apply in our life.
Paul said charity does not think evil and does not rejoice in iniquity but rejoices in the truth to do good.
If a person holds on to sin then they are not right with God.
They confess Christ but they have not received the Spirit yet.
Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Some people have a form of living for God but they deny the Spirit leading them because they hold on to sin and are led of the flesh in which they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, and are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth that they have to allow the Spirit to lead them and abstain from sin but they believe they are right with God when they hold on to sin.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
There is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lust of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
The people that are led of the Spirit are not under the law because they are not sinning therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
If a person sins they have forfeited repentance and are back under the law until they repent and do not want the sin anymore.
God will not allow a saint to be tempted above what they are able to handle and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.
So there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin.
But we might sin because we still have a choice but we need to repent of the sin and move forward in the Spirit.
Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
People who hold on to sin believing they are right with God do not fear Him because they do not depart from evil and God will punish all people that hold on to evil and if they hold on to sin the blood of Christ cannot wash it away because God will not take away a sin they are holding on to.
The Bible says charity, love in action, is greater than faith which John said love not in words, nor in tongue, but in deeds and truth, and faith works by love.
Love is the fulfilling of the law so if we do not have love in action then our faith does not apply in our life.
Paul said charity does not think evil and does not rejoice in iniquity but rejoices in the truth to do good.
If a person holds on to sin then they are not right with God.
The scripture explicitly states that obedience to God is what prompts His giving of the Holy Ghost. Yet many refuse to accept what it says, insisting obedience is not possible until after being indwelt with the Holy Ghost. Who is to be believed?
It is only through accepting what God actually says that people will receive what Jesus died to provide. Salvation was made available for all, yet few will receive it. Why continue to accept man's opinion rather than accepting what is clearly revealed in God's word?
"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts 5:31-32) Note the parallel to:
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:38-42
It is only through accepting what God actually says that people will receive what Jesus died to provide. Salvation was made available for all, yet few will receive it. Why continue to accept man's opinion rather than accepting what is clearly revealed in God's word?
"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts 5:31-32) Note the parallel to:
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:38-42
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why only verses 8 and 9 what about 10 ?
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
Ephesians 2:8-10
Were “saved by grace “ it just turns out gods grace includes repentance and right living and becoming zealous to do good and not evil
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; ( that’s something we need for salvation )
looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. ( become eager to do good )
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
Titus 2:11-15 KJV
it’s not a lack of someone reconciling anything it’s when one reads Ephesians 2:8-9 and then tries to ignore everything based on a verse from a letter but everything else is true as well
this also is true
“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:5-7
you see why would two selected verses from chapter 2 then erase chapter 5? Paul wouldn’t have written all this stuff if grace omitted everything lol
someone’s now suggesting there’s some other salvstion that we get saved but not included in Christs kingdom
well
I’m not sure where those people are going to exist because Christs kingdom is the entire new creation heaven and earth
“
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
Ephesians 2:8-10
Were “saved by grace “ it just turns out gods grace includes repentance and right living and becoming zealous to do good and not evil
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; ( that’s something we need for salvation )
looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. ( become eager to do good )
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
Titus 2:11-15 KJV
it’s not a lack of someone reconciling anything it’s when one reads Ephesians 2:8-9 and then tries to ignore everything based on a verse from a letter but everything else is true as well
this also is true
“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:5-7
you see why would two selected verses from chapter 2 then erase chapter 5? Paul wouldn’t have written all this stuff if grace omitted everything lol
someone’s now suggesting there’s some other salvstion that we get saved but not included in Christs kingdom
well
I’m not sure where those people are going to exist because Christs kingdom is the entire new creation heaven and earth
“
In the book of Acts the Samaritans and Gentiles were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and those people that were baptized on to John's baptism had to be baptized in Jesus' name.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
If we are planted in the likeness of death of Christ we will rise to newness of life like Him by the Spirit.
The man Christ Jesus died, was buried, and rose again and we have to identify with the man Christ Jesus by repenting of our sins, being water baptized, and receiving the Spirit.
If a person does not identify with Christ then they cannot be saved.
People are trying to cut out the middle man by saying being baptized is not part of salvation.
Some people use the thief on the cross as an example but Jesus told him that before He died and the thief could not be water baptized for he was hung on a cross so in that circumstance it can be skipped.
Like a person on their way to the Church to be water baptized and believed it was part of the salvation plan of God and died in a car accident the person should still be saved for it was in their heart to do it.
It is not the death, and resurrection of Christ, but it is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, so we cannot skip water baptism.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
If we are planted in the likeness of death of Christ we will rise to newness of life like Him by the Spirit.
The man Christ Jesus died, was buried, and rose again and we have to identify with the man Christ Jesus by repenting of our sins, being water baptized, and receiving the Spirit.
If a person does not identify with Christ then they cannot be saved.
People are trying to cut out the middle man by saying being baptized is not part of salvation.
Some people use the thief on the cross as an example but Jesus told him that before He died and the thief could not be water baptized for he was hung on a cross so in that circumstance it can be skipped.
Like a person on their way to the Church to be water baptized and believed it was part of the salvation plan of God and died in a car accident the person should still be saved for it was in their heart to do it.
It is not the death, and resurrection of Christ, but it is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, so we cannot skip water baptism.
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right and what if they don’t respond ? That’s the part you need to acknolwedge that’s what causes repentance
see this
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
Titus 3:8 KJV
that’s for a believer to hear and believe not reject it’s not for a non believer to think but for a believer to hear and let it in it’s why I was asking why remove this verse
“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
Ephesians 2:10 KJV
there’s a conversion that has to happen repentance is where that happens we have to go through this process of faith hearing the gospel
“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
Ephesians 4:21-24 KJV
We can’t stay in that old sonful creation we have to put off the flesh and take on the spirit
“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”
Colossians 3:9-10 KJV
we’re supposed to respond brother to what Jesus said that’s how we’re meant to respond your right Gods doing a work in us the work however is to ac tally change us from those driven to commit sin to those driven to walk upright lives in anticipation of Christ and salvstion
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
Philippians 2:12-14 KJV
do you see how the actual letters pul wrote don’t bear out “ there’s nothing for you to do “ but when he’s saying your saved by grace through faith “ he’s saying your saved by gods grace that teaches you to repent and live right in this world , and teaches us to become zealous of doing good and shunning evil
when we make grace void of everything else bekng taught we are distorting Gods grace and making it something it isn’t
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4
Gods work is in us to change our Will to keep Sinning and our actions that come from our Will our part is to hear believe and let him change us through faith in other words through this process
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
as Christian’s hear Gods word of they believe it will Change thoer mind and heart to what Christ wants it to be and from that process of a renewed mind and heart our actions just reflect that change we have to let the word into our thinking and belief or we won’t ever change over to the new man created in Christ not outside Christ but in his doctrine
see this
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
Titus 3:8 KJV
that’s for a believer to hear and believe not reject it’s not for a non believer to think but for a believer to hear and let it in it’s why I was asking why remove this verse
“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
Ephesians 2:10 KJV
there’s a conversion that has to happen repentance is where that happens we have to go through this process of faith hearing the gospel
“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
Ephesians 4:21-24 KJV
We can’t stay in that old sonful creation we have to put off the flesh and take on the spirit
“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”
Colossians 3:9-10 KJV
we’re supposed to respond brother to what Jesus said that’s how we’re meant to respond your right Gods doing a work in us the work however is to ac tally change us from those driven to commit sin to those driven to walk upright lives in anticipation of Christ and salvstion
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
Philippians 2:12-14 KJV
do you see how the actual letters pul wrote don’t bear out “ there’s nothing for you to do “ but when he’s saying your saved by grace through faith “ he’s saying your saved by gods grace that teaches you to repent and live right in this world , and teaches us to become zealous of doing good and shunning evil
when we make grace void of everything else bekng taught we are distorting Gods grace and making it something it isn’t
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4
Gods work is in us to change our Will to keep Sinning and our actions that come from our Will our part is to hear believe and let him change us through faith in other words through this process
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
as Christian’s hear Gods word of they believe it will Change thoer mind and heart to what Christ wants it to be and from that process of a renewed mind and heart our actions just reflect that change we have to let the word into our thinking and belief or we won’t ever change over to the new man created in Christ not outside Christ but in his doctrine