Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

[dcontroversal]

Once again I do not reject those verb tenses you keep trying to use to push your agenda, what I reject is your personal private interpretation of them, not those verses themselves.

I put them in proper understanding by the grace of God for allowing me to have this understanding by His Holy Spirit so that the words of Jesus, Peter, and Paul all align with one another.

Your out of your mind.....the verb tenses have NOTHING to do with a personal private interpretation....they are governed by the RULES of GRAMMAR...just another fluff job so as to reject obvious truth to push your heretical dogma...you should seriously wake up and open your eyes pal before you leave this earth trusting into yourself...

 

[KennethC]

Quote it 50 times...does not matter because a saved child of God has a SPIRIT THAT IS BORN AGAIN AND DOES NOT SIN....the absurdity of your view is plain to all except the few who are also deceived!

Wait a minute now you are quoting 1 John 3:9, 5:18 and interjecting spirit into those scriptures, they say the person not the spirit does not sin because they keep themselves from continuous deliberate sin.

Was not you the one who said just the other day and in the past that you and all of us will continue to sin everyday ???

The absurdity is saying or showing we will never have victory over sin through the Lord, or to pretty much state that the Holy Spirit will not strengthen us where we are weak to keep us from being under bondage of sin.

If you are still giving into your flesh then you still are under bondage to the law !!!

 

[Willie-T]

There we have it, a DIRECT ANSWER which undercuts all rhetoric.

This individual literally believes that a serial killer, a thief, a child molester, an adulterer, a pornographer can be forgiven without having to forsake murdering, stealing, molesting, adultery, etc.

Even though the Bible says things like...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

...these people do not care. They think that one can "receive Jesus" and yet not be a doer of His word. The very word which saves the soul they do not believe that one has to conduct themselves in accordance with it.

What kind of Christianity is this? Is that the message Jesus preached to people?

Honestly, how so many people buy into this kind of obvious nonsense is simply astounding.

One can point to verses like this...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

...yet they simply do not believe it. In their mind sin only has to be confessed not forsaken. They think a child molester can confess their child molestation to God and continue to molest children and actually be forgiven.

Think about that folks. Is that what you really want to uphold as the truth?

If you believe that how can you claim you are not a sin defender? Willie just argued in favour of being able to molest children and yet be in a reconciled state to God. That is astounding is it not?



Luk 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Luk 23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

You take that passage and imply it means that a child molester can be forgiven in the midst of molestation?

Jesus was not bitter at those whom were mocking him and those whom were putting him to death. He wanted God to forgive them. Yet Jesus wanting God to forgive them does not mean God was going to forgive them absent those people repenting.

The Bible contends for repentance and a forsaking of wickedness from cover to cover so why don't you?

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

How much clearer could it be?

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Yet you think a child molester can continue to molest children and inherit eternal life?

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Oh, stop acting stupid. You asked a question, and I answered it. Now you want to change the question and pretend I answered something you never asked.

But, to play your foolish game with you...... Even if a sinner of any kind, failed to maintain their walk and sinned again after they were saved, YES they would still be a forgiven child of God.

I have no idea the hell-on-Earth God might let them go through before they die... nor do I know if they might end up living in the gutter in Heaven... but they do not lose what God promised them, that "He would forget their lawless deeds and remember their sins no more."

 

[BenFTW]

How about you BenFTW. I see you are reading the thread.

Let's not dance around strawman or rely on articles written by other people. Let's see if you will directly answer the following.


Does a child molester have to stop engaging in the molestation of children BEFORE God will forgive them?

Does a child molester have to stop engaging in the molestation of children BEFORE reconciliation with God can take place?

It is a vile question with the intent of malice, to defame the person who answers. However, I will entertain you. Your first mistake is the question implies one is in the act of sin while reconciliation is taking place. Its like someone drunk with whiskey in hand accepting Jesus Christ and what He has done on his behalf. It could happen, but in regards to a pedophile... its highly unlikely that a person would be in such an act while coming to the awareness of the Gospel.

You're asking if we must forsake our sin in order to be forgiven of God. That may be the intent but it is but a fleshly boast. The person who is a habitual liar may say he won't lie again and thank Jesus for what he did, but its a boast in self-righteousness. It isn't a word that is kept, because frankly, we are in the flesh. The man is likely to lie again. Of course God has set people free at conversion of strongholds such as addiction and in the same way could set a pedophile free from whatever pain or trauma made him the way he was, and remove his mental sickness. The point however is that while someone may say they are going to forsake sin, its a promise that can't be kept.

We acknowledge our sin, we acknowledge what Jesus Christ did on our behalf and we become born again by believing in our heart and confessing with our mouth. There is no forsaking of sin in order to be forgiven, but rather a mental assent of your complete inadequacy to save yourself and complete dependence upon Jesus Christ. It is honorable that a person wish to forsake his sin, but Jesus is the one who will set them free from sin's dominion, by His grace.

So, to cut to the chase. A child molester may promise to not continue in this act, but such a promise is empty. It is Jesus who can set them free from such sickness. So, such a person's engagement isn't the issue at hand, but rather their belief. Whether they commit to doing or not doing a particular sin isn't the issue at hand. The issue at hand is whether they believe in Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.

In regards to the molester having to stop engaging in molestation before God will forgive them, the answer is no. Now hear me out. As I said earlier, its not as if the person is going to be in the act while they come to the revelation of the Gospel, they are going to accept him before the act is ever committed again. Right? So, who are you to say that God doesn't set the captive free and deliver him from this sickness to where he no longer walks in such darkness? The man comes to God hopeless with his perversion, not able to set himself free. He is helpless... its hard to pity a man who hurts children. Its nearly impossible. However, God knows the reason and hurts behind why the man does what he does and is able to heal that area within the person to set them free from such a perversion.

Does a drunkard have to stop drinking in order to receive forgiveness from God? The answer is no, because He saves a sinner, not a saint. However, once this man believes in Christ, He is a new creation having died to sin. Therefore he has been set free from this addiction by the blood of Jesus Christ. In the same way, a child molester can be set free by the blood of Jesus Christ, no matter how vile a sin it is. The idea of forsaking sin before believing in Jesus is but a boast in the flesh that can't be kept and if it is, it is only because they were washed in the blood of Christ and God did a miraculous work in them. Their boast therefore cannot be in themselves, but in the changing power of God's grace.

 

[KennethC]

Your out of your mind.....the verb tenses have NOTHING to do with a personal private interpretation....they are governed by the RULES of GRAMMAR...just another fluff job so as to reject obvious truth to push your heretical dogma...you should seriously wake up and open your eyes pal before you leave this earth trusting into yourself...

They do when you take them and use them in improper context.

You can put your faith in rules of grammar and I will put my faith in God and the truth revealed by the Holy Spirit.

I have a question for you Dcon as this has been raised in the past;

Do you believe the Holy Spirit speaks to us directly or only through the word ???

 

[BenFTW]

There we have it, a DIRECT ANSWER which undercuts all rhetoric.

This individual literally believes that a serial killer, a thief, a child molester, an adulterer, a pornographer can be forgiven without having to forsake murdering, stealing, molesting, adultery, etc.

Even though the Bible says things like...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

...these people do not care. They think that one can "receive Jesus" and yet not be a doer of His word. The very word which saves the soul they do not believe that one has to conduct themselves in accordance with it.

What kind of Christianity is this? Is that the message Jesus preached to people?

Honestly, how so many people buy into this kind of obvious nonsense is simply astounding.

One can point to verses like this...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

...yet they simply do not believe it. In their mind sin only has to be confessed not forsaken. They think a child molester can confess their child molestation to God and continue to molest children and actually be forgiven.

Think about that folks. Is that what you really want to uphold as the truth?

If you believe that how can you claim you are not a sin defender? Willie just argued in favour of being able to molest children and yet be in a reconciled state to God. That is astounding is it not?



Luk 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Luk 23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

You take that passage and imply it means that a child molester can be forgiven in the midst of molestation?

Jesus was not bitter at those whom were mocking him and those whom were putting him to death. He wanted God to forgive them. Yet Jesus wanting God to forgive them does not mean God was going to forgive them absent those people repenting.

The Bible contends for repentance and a forsaking of wickedness from cover to cover so why don't you?

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

How much clearer could it be?

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Yet you think a child molester can continue to molest children and inherit eternal life?

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

As I said, the question is asked with the intent of malice to defame the person who answers.

 

[Willie-T]

As I said, the question is asked with the intent of malice to defame the person who answers.

I'm in good company. That is the same tactic the other Pharisees tried to use against Jesus.

 

[shotgunner]

Actually walking in the flesh is walking in sin, because walking in the flesh means you are serving yourself and not God.

You can not serve two masters and still be saved, and if one is using works to earn or maintain salvation then yes they are in sin. However if they speak on works as proof that one is saved and guided by the Holy Spirit then no they are not walking in the flesh.

Carnally minded means you believe you can still live in serving sin and still be saved !!!

No! It's not speaking of actions only. That's why Paul says to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death. He is speaking about how one perceives his walk. If Paul was only speaking of sin he would have simply said to sin is death but to not sin is life and peace.

The carnally minded man's walk is after the flesh, where he only bases everything on his flesh nature. That includes sinning to satisfy his lusts, but it also included his lack of faith for anything he can't see, feel, touch, or taste. The carnal minded man cannot understand the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned. He cannot understand that he is saved by a force of faith that he cannot see. He can't see past his flesh and will only judge his salvation by his flesh.

This is why we have scriptures that say, though we walk after the flesh we do not war after the flesh. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds( accepted thought patterns), and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

 

[KennethC]

When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and that minute this happens we are all in a state of a sinful nature.

Once one accepts the faith in the Lord they can no longer continue to be that way and must repent of those ways.

This may take some time with some depending on the sins or it could be handled quickly in other cases, but the standard is still the same and that is turning away from those sins to not commit them any more. And we are to allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to achieve that victory over those sins.

One can not continue to deliberately sin the rest of their lives (live carnally) and end up with eternal life !!!

 

[KennethC]

No! It's not speaking of actions only. That's why Paul says to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death. He is speaking about how one perceives his walk. If Paul was only speaking of sin he would have simply said to sin is death but to not sin is life and peace.

The carnally minded man's walk is after the flesh, where he only bases everything on his flesh nature. That includes sinning to satisfy his lusts, but it also included his lack of faith for anything he can't see, feel, touch, or taste. The carnal minded man cannot understand the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned. He cannot understand that he is saved by a force of faith that he cannot see. He can't see past his flesh and will only judge his salvation by his flesh.

This is why we have scriptures that say, though we walk after the flesh we do not war after the flesh. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds( accepted thought patterns), and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

You here in the last part is speaking on 2 Corinthians 10:3 where it is actually saying that even though we walk in our fleshly bodies we do not war with or given into those fleshly desires.

We bring every thought into captivity so that they do not give birth to sin and let it get full grown to control us again.
We instead stay obedient to Christ way of walking in the Spirit.

 

[shotgunner]

When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and that minute this happens we are all in a state of a sinful nature.

Once one accepts the faith in the Lord they can no longer continue to be that way and must repent of those ways.

This may take some time with some depending on the sins or it could be handled quickly in other cases, but the standard is still the same and that is turning away from those sins to not commit them any more. And we are to allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to achieve that victory over those sins.

One can not continue to deliberately sin the rest of their lives (live carnally) and end up with eternal life !!!

I don't see anyone here arguing that they want to be saved yet continue in sin! It's an impossibility to be saved and to continue to have the same relationship to sin as before salvation! In fact I agree emphatically with everything except the last sentence you wrote! I would only change it to;" One cannot continue to sustain the same relationship to sin and claim to be saved. I say that because it's an impossibility. The very act of salvation removes the bondage, the kingship of sin, and replaces God's grace through Jesus in the kingship position.

 

[shotgunner]

You here in the last part is speaking on 2 Corinthians 10:3 where it is actually saying that even though we walk in our fleshly bodies we do not war with or given into those fleshly desires.

We bring every thought into captivity so that they do not give birth to sin and let it get full grown to control us again.
We instead stay obedient to Christ way of walking in the Spirit.

No! read the whole chapter. Paul is specifically speaking of those who receive his teaching as coming from man rather than God. He isn't even talking at all about sin! He is speaking of only looking at things based on the outward appearance, what the flesh can perceive, which is exactly what I've been saying all along.

 

[KennethC]

I don't see anyone here arguing that they want to be saved yet continue in sin! It's an impossibility to be saved and to continue to have the same relationship to sin as before salvation! In fact I agree emphatically with everything except the last sentence you wrote! I would only change it to;" One cannot continue to sustain the same relationship to sin and claim to be saved. I say that because it's an impossibility. The very act of salvation removes the bondage, the kingship of sin, and replaces God's grace through Jesus in the kingship position.

Yes I agree with what you say here but there are some walking around that believe they are saved, but there is no change from their former self to the reborn self. One even has excused their sinful ways in the flesh by trying to say it is only the spirit that is born again that can not sin, but the flesh will continue to always sin.

Part of being baptized is a symbol of a clear conscious and repentance is a change of mind, and both together means you no longer look at your former self as an acceptable way of life and by the guidance of the Holy Spirit you put an end (put to death) those things that cause you to sin in your life.

I word it the way I do because even the bible states it that way that we can not continue to willfully (deliberately) sin after receiving the knowledge of our Lord. Those that do it says is trampling Him underfoot and counted His blood as a common thing that has no power to forgive sins.

 

[KennethC]

No! read the whole chapter. Paul is specifically speaking of those who receive his teaching as coming from man rather than God. He isn't even talking at all about sin! He is speaking of only looking at things based on the outward appearance, what the flesh can perceive, which is exactly what I've been saying all along.

Following teachings from man rather then God is walking in sin, for if you are putting a man made doctrine before God's then you are sinning because that is what you put your trust and faith in.

The looking on ones outward appearance is only a part of what is being said in that chapter and not the whole context, for just before that it says all disobedience is to be punished. How is one disobedient to His ways, that is by not following the standards He gave to us to follow and observe.

Then it speaks on boasting on the authority given to us by God and that some of us will boast more then others, and it does not say this is wrong to do as long as we are doing it for edification and not for the destruction of others. Meaning that if you are judging another to condemnation then you are giving the word in a improper manner.

 

[shotgunner]

Yes I agree with what you say here but there are some walking around that believe they are saved, but there is no change from their former self to the reborn self. One even has excused their sinful ways in the flesh by trying to say it is only the spirit that is born again that can not sin, but the flesh will continue to always sin.

Part of being baptized is a symbol of a clear conscious and repentance is a change of mind, and both together means you no longer look at your former self as an acceptable way of life and by the guidance of the Holy Spirit you put an end (put to death) those things that cause you to sin in your life.

I word it the way I do because even the bible states it that way that we can not continue to willfully (deliberately) sin after receiving the knowledge of our Lord. Those that do it says is trampling Him underfoot and counted His blood as a common thing that has no power to forgive sins.

That last part you have taken out of context. The willful sin being spoken of there in Hebrews is speaking to Jews who have heard the gospel yet have gone back to animal sacrifices willfully sinning by not believing the blood of Jesus is better than that of animals. That's why there remains no sacrifice for their sins, because they rejected the true sacrifice in favor of the shadow.

 

[KennethC]

[/B]
That last part you have taken out of context. The willful sin being spoken of there in Hebrews is speaking to Jews who have heard the gospel yet have gone back to animal sacrifices willfully sinning by not believing the blood of Jesus is better than that of animals. That's why there remains no sacrifice for their sins, because they rejected the true sacrifice in favor of the shadow.

No it is not speaking of Jews who have heard but went back to animal sacrifices, that is a bed rendering of that passage.

Because the proceeding verses in that chapter speak on the first steps in the faith for believers.

Hebrews 10:19-25
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God,

22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.


These are all steps believers in Christ are to take, and then after taking these steps if you still continue to sin deliberately after all of this there remains no more sacrifice of the Lord that will cover your sins as you are trampling Him under foot.

This is the same thing Apostle Paul said the Galatians who left the gospel of Christ to go to another gospel to be justified by the law. He told them:

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


It is Christ sacrifice that has become of no effect to them because they by continuing to live deliberate sinful lives trample Him underfoot, and it says they will stand before God at judgment !!!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

How about you BenFTW. I see you are reading the thread.

Let's not dance around strawman or rely on articles written by other people. Let's see if you will directly answer the following.


Does a child molester have to stop engaging in the molestation of children BEFORE God will forgive them?

Does a child molester have to stop engaging in the molestation of children BEFORE reconciliation with God can take place?

Do you think there's a time to kill, and a time to let live?

 

[Magenta]

It is a vile question with the intent of malice, to defame the person who answers.

Just say, "All sins have been forgiven but one." That answers it.

 

[BenFTW]

Just say, "All sins have been forgiven but one." That answers it.

That sin being disbelief in the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Good point.

 

[Gr8grace]

Just say, "All sins have been forgiven but one." That answers it.

Technically.................that sin is forgiven also. Unbelievers are not judged by their unbelief. they are judged by their DEEDS. Not sins.Not unbelief.

They are judged for their self righteous deeds done in the flesh...........dung,menstrual rags.

New American Standard Bible
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.


This is why religion and self righteousness poses the greatest threat to people. Not sinning.