Old Testament

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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#61
Yes, they were obligated to follow the Law. Jesus told them they were to follow them until heaven and earth pass away.
No that is not what he told them Matt. What he said was that not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away until all be fulfilled. There is a great deal of difference in those two statements.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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#62
I can understand that. And it might make sense if those words had not been spoken 2,000 years ago, to people of an entirely different culture who spoke of "Heaven & Earth" every day, and visited it at least once a year with their whole families.
Again, it depends on the interpretation.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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#63
No that is not what he told them Matt. What he said was that not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away until all be fulfilled. There is a great deal of difference in those two statements.
Matthew 5:18-19 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#64
Matthew 5:18-19 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Show me one thing in the Law that has not been fulfilled.
 
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#65
Again, it depends on the interpretation.
If I said, "Star Ship Enterprise" to you, would you have to come up with an interpretation for it? Of course not. You, and everyone else reading this would know this was the name of a TV show set dreamed up by Gene Roddenberry.

But that is only because this is something that is a part of our culture, therefore we don't even have to consider trying to interpret what the Enterprise is. It was the same way for the people those words were spoken to. They fully understood the idiom, and what it stood for.
 

KohenMatt

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Jun 28, 2013
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#66
He's saying "all." Not "all of the Law."

Why would He say "not until heaven and earth pass away, and then say, "Actually, just until all is fulfilled"?
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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#67
If I said, "Star Ship Enterprise" to you, would you have to come up with an interpretation for it? Of course not. You, and everyone else reading this would know this was the name of a TV show set dreamed up by Gene Roddenberry.

But that is only because this is something that is a part of our culture, therefore we don't even have to consider trying to interpret what the Enterprise is. It was the same way for the people those words were spoken to. They fully understood the idiom, and what it stood for.
Again, it's a matter of interpretation. And the Jewish people and anyone else is certainly welcome to it.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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#68
Dear Forum,

My name is Amit and I am new here. I am highly interested in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

My question to you is, what is the place of the old testament in christianity.
The old testament is often quoted in matters like messiah, homosexuals and modesty, but how can you rely on it and deny other parts of it by eating shrimps and shaving? What makes one old testament rule binding and other rule irrelevant?

Accordingly, what is the religious basis to "free" the jews from the old testament?
The Torah according to itself is binding only to those who were born jewish (while other nations must only follow the 7 rules of the sons of Noah). If someone who is born jewish accepts christ and the new testament, how does this expemt him from following the laws of the Torah according to christianity?


Thank you,

Amit
We as Christians are not under the Old Testament (Old Covenant). We as Christians are under the New Testament (New Covenant)
Jesus did not get rid of the Old Testament, because there is stuff written in the Old Testament that still need to be fulfilled. That is why Jesus said Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. So when it, the Old Testament is fulfilled, it shall PASS AWAY. But as long as there are prophesies written in the Old Testament yet to be fulfilled, we will have the Old Testament with us, UNTIL all of it is fulfilled (completed, done, accomplished).
Should we obey the Old Testament?

^i^ Responding to OP
 
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#69
Again, it's a matter of interpretation. And the Jewish people and anyone else is certainly welcome to it.
Actually, it's not. They truly do know because this has been in their culture since the inception of their religion, and you are simply guessing.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#70
He's saying "all." Not "all of the Law."

Why would He say "not until heaven and earth pass away, and then say, "Actually, just until all is fulfilled"?
We will discuss the prophets on another thread. Let us do one thing at a time. Right now we are discussing the Law of Moses. Show me one thing in the Law that has not been fulfilled.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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#71
We will discuss the prophets on another thread. Let us do one thing at a time. Right now we are discussing the Law of Moses. Show me one thing in the Law that has not been fulfilled.
All of it has been fulfilled. But fulfilled doesn't mean "Don't do it anymore."
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#72
All of it has been fulfilled. But fulfilled doesn't mean "Don't do it anymore."
According to Jesus once it is fulfilled, it will pass away. If it is fulfilled then as the Hebrew writer tells us, it is no longer effective. It is done away. What do you think was the significance of the tearing of the veil in the Temple at the death of Jesus?
 
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#73
According to Jesus once it is fulfilled, it will pass away. If it is fulfilled then as the Hebrew writer tells us, it is no longer effective. It is done away. What do you think was the significance of the tearing of the veil in the Temple at the death of Jesus?
Oh, I know, I know.... Pick me.

......................... ok, I'll shut up and wait.
 
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#75
It's a hang over from the old CoC days..... Sorry.
 

1joseph

Senior Member
Dec 14, 2014
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#76
According to Jesus once it is fulfilled, it will pass away. If it is fulfilled then as the Hebrew writer tells us, it is no longer effective. It is done away. What do you think was the significance of the tearing of the veil in the Temple at the death of Jesus?
The Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) was unleashed from the Holy of Holies that was enclosed behind the veil and became available to any one who believes the gospel of Jesus Christ, Jesus being the sacrificial lamb for mankind.
 
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KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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#77
According to Jesus once it is fulfilled, it will pass away. If it is fulfilled then as the Hebrew writer tells us, it is no longer effective. It is done away. What do you think was the significance of the tearing of the veil in the Temple at the death of Jesus?
That we have full access to the Holy of Holies, God's presence, without need of a mediator or priest to go on our behalf.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#78
The Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) was unleashed from the Holy of Holies, that was enclosed behind the veil, and became available to any one who believes the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Well, yes. Certainly it signified the fact that God is no longer hiding his face but the significance of the tearing of the veil was to demonstrate the fact that the Law was no more. Man now has access to the holy of holies through the blood of Christ. This was not possible as long as the Law was still in effect.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#79
That we have full access to the Holy of Holies, God's presence, without need of a mediator or priest to go on our behalf.
Absolutely. This was not possible as long as the law was still in effect.