Old to New Covenant a 50 day transition

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Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
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#21
We have agreed to disagree, and in peace. It is good.

You believe God has condemned all Jews to death, and I believe, by careful study of Romans, there is a real possibility that God has preserved them through grace.
The nation Israel, not all Jews, and its only a temporary event, as Romans 11 indicated.
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
220
43
#22
Those gentiles who are saved during the Tribulation, will be saved under the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 24:14), and so they will be joining National Israel.

National Israel's destiny will be on Earth, so yes, they will reign with Christ for a thousand years on Earth (Matthew 5:5).

But for us in the Body of Christ who are saved under the gospel of grace, we will be reigning in Heaven with Christ. (1 Corinthians 6:3)
What about..

‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.​

Since this verse is scripture..then your assessment is wrong? We who remain will be caught up with them...that doesn’t lead to any Christians left after the rapture.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
908
306
63
#23
You have addressed a big subject, and one which has caused quite some confusion. The confusion came because for over a thousand years the Roman Catholic Church (i) locked the Bible away and (ii) forbade the common man (the laity) to study it. The Roman Catholic Church, more commonly known as the "Holy Roman Empire", because it's goal is to rule the earth, that is, "Kingdom Now", must teach two things.
  1. God is finished with Israel
  2. And this point above necessitates that all the promises to Israel become the Church's
When the Reformation took place (caused by common men getting their hands on the Bible), the main battle was (i) salvation yb works verses salvation by faith, and (ii) the Headship of Rome or not. Other deep truths were neglected in the heat of battle. The mani deep truth, which had to wait another 200 years for, was; "If Rome is not the ruler of earth, then Who is, when will He come, and where will He dwell?" The end of the study of this matter is the following;
  • Our Lord Jesus is appointed HEIR and King of the earth
  • Our Lord Jesus, at a time decided upon by the Father, will descend to earth and replace Gentile government
  • Our Lord Jesus will establish His Kingdom on earth via the worthy of the Church
But this belief, if held, causes a chain of other questions. They are;
  1. What of Jesus' Jewishness, and what of His KINGSHIP over Israel?
  2. Where will Jesus, a Jew and their King, live?
  3. And if so, what is Israel's future?
And it was suddenly important to all serious expositors that not only was the Church a fully NEW and fully INDEPENDENT entity on earth, but that it had no been mentioned or predicted in the Old Testament (Eph.3:5, 9, etc.). And THIS caused a BIG PROBLEM for many expositors who had built their life's work on Roman Catholic "Kingdom Now" theology. The resistance to the doctrine that Israel will be fully recovered and made recipient of all the blessings that the Old Testament prophets have promised WAS MASSIVE. And it came from the highest level of Biblical studies.

So, I propose that the the New Covenant is made EXCLUSIVELY with Israel as Jeremiah 31:31 says. I also propose that this Covenant was RATIFIED by Christ's blood before God, but tat it must wait for Israel to
  • be resurrected
  • be forgiven their sins
  • be gathered to their Land
  • be given new spirits and new hearts
The most difficult thing in this claim is the thought that the New Covenant started on Golgotha because of our Lord's words at the so-called "Last Supper". In all three synoptic gospels it SEEMS, from a SUPERFICIAL reading, that the New Covenant was INSTITUTED on Golgotha. But let us examine the grammar of Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24 and Luke 22:20.

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.


You will immediately notice that our Lord's blood is ONLY (i) the blood OF the New Covenant, or, (ii) the New Testament is IN His blood. NOTHING is said about it being IMPLEMENTED. And if we study the blood of Covenants made with God from Hebrews 9:18-22 we learn that the blood was for MULTIPLE THINGS. And the first was that it, "DEDICATED the First Covenant" (v.18). It also was for "remission of sins", it was for the "Book" of Law, it was for the people, AND it was for the Tabernacle's dedication.

The BLOOD did not GIVE the Covenant. It RATIFIED it. Covenant with God must ratified in sacrificial blood. So when is it IMPLEMENTED? Both Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 tell us - WHEN ISRAEL IS UNITED AGAIN. Hebrews 8:8 and 10 say the Covenant will be made "in the DAYS" when Israel - the ten northern Tribes, and Judah - the two southern Tribes, ARE NEIGHBORS. This harmonizes with Jeremiah 32:37-40. It is only AFTER God has gathered them out of all the nations that He scattered them into, that he will make this New Covenant.

I propose that the New Covenant will be made EXCLUSIVELY with Israel, when they are forgiven, resurrected and retunred to their Land as Ezekiel 37 promises. I also propose that according to Jeremiah 31:33 that it will be a Covenant of Law - soething that the church has nothing to do with.

Let's discuss.
Hello,
1st: To be clear, I'm not going to speak for or against any Christian sects of faith, to include Catholics.

Having said that, we disagree on a couple points you injected into the thread.

1) The giving/filling of/with Christ's Holy Spirit at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Jews only as stated in my BTW comment in post #1) is the beginning of the New Covenant.

2) The coming millennial kingdom (where Israel receives all Abram's land covenant promise), white throne judgment, death & hell being thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:11-15) is the ultimate fulfillment.

Christ & His sin atoning sacrifice was offered & given to Israel 1st. It's not until years after leadership rejected their Messiah. Peter is sent to the gentiles & they receive the LORDS new covenant promise. The baptism of Christ's INDWELLING Holy Spirit. Next, the risen Christ makes Paul the Apostle to gentiles.

I've listed a few (there are more) OT references that gentiles would become God's people as well.

Acts 15:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
(MY NOTE: James quotes Amos 9:11-12 here in vrs 16-17)

A few other OT references pointing to gentiles receiving the LORD'S light:

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
(MY NOTE: The LORD says He will use Israel as a worldwide light of salvation to gentiles. Also see Isa 42:6 & 60:3)

And of course God's covenant promise to Abram made 430 years before the Sinai covenant:

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
(MY NOTE: the LORD tells Abram in thee (not just Israel) but, ALL families of the earth will be blessed thru the promised seed/Christ. Also see Gen 13:15; 15:18, Gal 3:16-17).

Final thought:
Christ will soon remove His Church. Israel will once again become His main focus. The ALL JEWISH gospel of the kingdom of heaven. will once again become salvations message. Pointing to the King who'll literally comes from heaven. And the world government will forever be on His shoulders (Isa 9:6).

God established that the land of Israel belongs to Him (Lev 25:23, Deut 11:12). God has placed His name in Jerusalem (II Chronicles 6:6, I Kings 9:3). God gives the exact boundaries of the promised land in (Num 34:1-15)

God states that this covenant of the Land is based on "His" eternal character, "Not" on Israel's own righteousness. He makes clear that even when they forsake His will, He will "NEVER" forget His covenant (Lev:26:42-45, Jer 31:35-37, Ps 89:30-37). All the above promises are true because God is not a man that He should lie. (Num 23:19)

The Lord will not bring in the kingdom until the Nation of Israel cries out collectively: "Baruch Ha Ba B'Shem Adonai" Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord (Matt 23:36)
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,354
1,337
113
#24
Hello,
1st: To be clear, I'm not going to speak for or against any Christian sects of faith, to include Catholics.

Having said that, we disagree on a couple points you injected into the thread.

1) The giving/filling of/with Christ's Holy Spirit at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Jews only as stated in my BTW comment in post #1) is the beginning of the New Covenant.

2) The coming millennial kingdom (where Israel receives all Abram's land covenant promise), white throne judgment, death & hell being thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:11-15) is the ultimate fulfillment.

Christ & His sin atoning sacrifice was offered & given to Israel 1st. It's not until years after leadership rejected their Messiah. Peter is sent to the gentiles & they receive the LORDS new covenant promise. The baptism of Christ's INDWELLING Holy Spirit. Next, the risen Christ makes Paul the Apostle to gentiles.

I've listed a few (there are more) OT references that gentiles would become God's people as well.

Acts 15:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
(MY NOTE: James quotes Amos 9:11-12 here in vrs 16-17)

A few other OT references pointing to gentiles receiving the LORD'S light:

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
(MY NOTE: The LORD says He will use Israel as a worldwide light of salvation to gentiles. Also see Isa 42:6 & 60:3)

And of course God's covenant promise to Abram made 430 years before the Sinai covenant:

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
(MY NOTE: the LORD tells Abram in thee (not just Israel) but, ALL families of the earth will be blessed thru the promised seed/Christ. Also see Gen 13:15; 15:18, Gal 3:16-17).

Final thought:
Christ will soon remove His Church. Israel will once again become His main focus. The ALL JEWISH gospel of the kingdom of heaven. will once again become salvations message. Pointing to the King who'll literally comes from heaven. And the world government will forever be on His shoulders (Isa 9:6).

God established that the land of Israel belongs to Him (Lev 25:23, Deut 11:12). God has placed His name in Jerusalem (II Chronicles 6:6, I Kings 9:3). God gives the exact boundaries of the promised land in (Num 34:1-15)

God states that this covenant of the Land is based on "His" eternal character, "Not" on Israel's own righteousness. He makes clear that even when they forsake His will, He will "NEVER" forget His covenant (Lev:26:42-45, Jer 31:35-37, Ps 89:30-37). All the above promises are true because God is not a man that He should lie. (Num 23:19)

The Lord will not bring in the kingdom until the Nation of Israel cries out collectively: "Baruch Ha Ba B'Shem Adonai" Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord (Matt 23:36)
it is fine to follow how God works with gentiles and Jews, but only if we keep the attributes of God in mind, and know the bottom line of all that God did and what happened.

The bottom line is that God sees Himself as the creator of all humans and God loves all humans. Through that love God wants all humans to take advantage of His grace, and that grace is grounded in the forgiveness of sin.

The Israelites are part of this, for when the world had turned their back on God and forgotten His word God created a race to be caretakers of that word. We are to see Israel as caretakers of the grace that God wants all men to accept.

We need to keep in mind the sin and freedom from the death of sin that is at the core of this grace, for it means that repentance on our part is necessary for the this forgiveness. We cannot tell the Lord in prayer that we love our sin and want to keep it and at the same time ask the Lord to forgive our sin and take it from us.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
1,211
113
#25
What about..

‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.​

Since this verse is scripture..then your assessment is wrong? We who remain will be caught up with them...that doesn’t lead to any Christians left after the rapture.
That is the rapture of the Body of Christ, before the Tribulation begins.

But there would also be people who will only be saved during the Tribulation, as you quoted from Revelation‬ ‭20:4‬. They will have most likely have to die for their faith, if they want to be saved then.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
1,211
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#26
1) The giving/filling of/with Christ's Holy Spirit at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Jews only as stated in my BTW comment in post #1) is the beginning of the New Covenant.
The Old covenant of Law was made with the entire nation Israel, by them confirming their acceptance, as Exodus 24 indicated.

7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.

Which part of Acts 2 tells you that the nation of Israel, confirmed the new Covenant in a likewise manner?

3000 Jews believing is NOT the nation of Israel.
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
220
43
#27
That is the rapture of the Body of Christ, before the Tribulation begins.

But there would also be people who will only be saved during the Tribulation, as you quoted from Revelation‬ ‭20:4‬. They will have most likely have to die for their faith, if they want to be saved then.
Why would God need to rapture us before the tribulation when He means for us to share the gospel to the whole world before kings and rulers?
Mark‬ ‭13:9-10‬ ‭
But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them. The gospel must first be preached to all the nations.

The people in the tribulation are us! There won’t be a rapture and then God sends those people to share the gospel...its us...that’s why we are here now. ‭‭
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
395
41
28
#28
The truth is there is no New Covenant, the original PROMISE was that a SEED would come and take away our sins. The LAW came 430 years after the Promise. Now, Paul and others had to call it a new covenant, because the Jewish peoples say the Law of Moses as the Covenant. The newer of the two however was the Law of Moses, which was ADDED 430 years after the promise, according to Galatians chapter 3.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,371
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#29
That is incorrect. We must go by what is in the New Testament (which could also have been stated as "the New Covenant" (since the Greek word diatheke can be translated either way).

The New Covenant came into effect on the 14th of Nisan, AD 30, when Christ died on the cross on Mount Calvary. Proof? The veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom supernaturally. At the Last Supper the Lord Jesus Christ has already called the contents of "the cup" symbolically "my blood of the New Testament" (Covenant), and since He literally shed His blood on Calvary, that is when the New Covenant came into effect.

Paul makes it perfectly clear in 2 Corinthians 3 that the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in Body) is under the New Covenant. Which means that what you have postulated in incorrect and unbiblical. At the same time, after the Second Coming of Christ, redeemed and restored Israel will also be under the New Covenant. These are two distinct entities both under the New Covenant.
For some reason or other, you completely avoided my arguments.

But I will answer yours. In Matthew 19:28 it is prophesied by our Lord Jesus that the 12 Apostles will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 Tribes of Israel "in the regeneration". The word "regeneration" appears twice in the New Testament, and it means "the shooting forth of a dormant plant in spring". Since (i) the Apostles must be resurrected for this, and (ii) Israel as 12 Tribes must be recovered for this, it speaks of the Messianic age, or Millennial age. Israel had the Kingdom ripped away from them (Matt.21:43) so you have a unique situation in Israel during the Messianic age. According to 2nd Corinthians 5:17, Galatians 3:28, Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 3:11, the Apostles belong to the New Man and there are NO Jews in it. Added to this, the Law, which is the content of the New Covenant (Jer.31:33), is nailed to the cross for the New Man. So you have those NOT under Law, and NOT Israelites (because the New Man is a totally new creature), ruling Israel.

In the Messianic age you will have Christ, David (Jer.30:9) and the 12 Apostles ruling Israel in that hierarchy. So how does a Christian, who is not subject to Law, judge a Nation who is under Law? 2nd Corinthians 3:6 reads, "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." The word "ministers" is "diakonos", which means "runner of errands", "servant". It simply means that the Apostles were made "administrators" of the New Covenant. There is not a word about the New Covenant being in force yet.

Go back to my posting and read it again. Then try to find which statement is wrong - not according to popular opinion, but according to scripture.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,371
421
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#30
Hello,
1st: To be clear, I'm not going to speak for or against any Christian sects of faith, to include Catholics.

Having said that, we disagree on a couple points you injected into the thread.

1) The giving/filling of/with Christ's Holy Spirit at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Jews only as stated in my BTW comment in post #1) is the beginning of the New Covenant.

2) The coming millennial kingdom (where Israel receives all Abram's land covenant promise), white throne judgment, death & hell being thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:11-15) is the ultimate fulfillment.

Christ & His sin atoning sacrifice was offered & given to Israel 1st. It's not until years after leadership rejected their Messiah. Peter is sent to the gentiles & they receive the LORDS new covenant promise. The baptism of Christ's INDWELLING Holy Spirit. Next, the risen Christ makes Paul the Apostle to gentiles.

I've listed a few (there are more) OT references that gentiles would become God's people as well.

Acts 15:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
(MY NOTE: James quotes Amos 9:11-12 here in vrs 16-17)

A few other OT references pointing to gentiles receiving the LORD'S light:

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
(MY NOTE: The LORD says He will use Israel as a worldwide light of salvation to gentiles. Also see Isa 42:6 & 60:3)

And of course God's covenant promise to Abram made 430 years before the Sinai covenant:

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
(MY NOTE: the LORD tells Abram in thee (not just Israel) but, ALL families of the earth will be blessed thru the promised seed/Christ. Also see Gen 13:15; 15:18, Gal 3:16-17).

Final thought:
Christ will soon remove His Church. Israel will once again become His main focus. The ALL JEWISH gospel of the kingdom of heaven. will once again become salvations message. Pointing to the King who'll literally comes from heaven. And the world government will forever be on His shoulders (Isa 9:6).

God established that the land of Israel belongs to Him (Lev 25:23, Deut 11:12). God has placed His name in Jerusalem (II Chronicles 6:6, I Kings 9:3). God gives the exact boundaries of the promised land in (Num 34:1-15)

God states that this covenant of the Land is based on "His" eternal character, "Not" on Israel's own righteousness. He makes clear that even when they forsake His will, He will "NEVER" forget His covenant (Lev:26:42-45, Jer 31:35-37, Ps 89:30-37). All the above promises are true because God is not a man that He should lie. (Num 23:19)

The Lord will not bring in the kingdom until the Nation of Israel cries out collectively: "Baruch Ha Ba B'Shem Adonai" Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord (Matt 23:36)
For that which we discuss, that is, who the New Covenant is made with, and when, you did not go into my arguments to show them wrong. They thus stand. And if they stand, my conclusion stands.

Your only objection to my posting was your point (1) above, and you gave no verse for your conclusion.

The rest of your posting, for which I thank you for the time an effort, does not address the 50 day gap, and the giving of the New Covenant, that which the thread is about. I could comment on a number of your statements, but I run the risk of derailing the thread.

The scriptures are clear. Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Hebrews 8:8-10 clearly say that the New Covenant will be made "in that day" with ONLY Israel. And it defines which Israel. (i) The two divisions of Israel, the 10 northern Tribes and the 2 southern Tribes, and it (ii) defines them a second time by saying that it will be made with the offspring of the fathers who came out of Egypt. Further, it is a Covenant of God's Law. This term "My Law", "My Laws", "law of God" etc, in the Old Testament EXCLUSIVELY refer to the Law of Moses. And, as you know, the Church is NOT under Law.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,371
421
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69
#31
it is fine to follow how God works with gentiles and Jews, but only if we keep the attributes of God in mind, and know the bottom line of all that God did and what happened.

The bottom line is that God sees Himself as the creator of all humans and God loves all humans. Through that love God wants all humans to take advantage of His grace, and that grace is grounded in the forgiveness of sin.

The Israelites are part of this, for when the world had turned their back on God and forgotten His word God created a race to be caretakers of that word. We are to see Israel as caretakers of the grace that God wants all men to accept.

We need to keep in mind the sin and freedom from the death of sin that is at the core of this grace, for it means that repentance on our part is necessary for the this forgiveness. We cannot tell the Lord in prayer that we love our sin and want to keep it and at the same time ask the Lord to forgive our sin and take it from us.
In the context of the thread we are in, the following is God's view of Israel
  1. He brought them out of Egypt with a strong arm but Israel displayed such perfidy that God let 600,000 fighting men die in the wilderness.
  2. Israel acted so abominably that in one judgement He killed 24,000 of them
  3. Far from being caretakers of God's Word, Israel refused them within days of receiving them by building a golden calf and calling it "their gods"
  4. Stephen's discourse in Acts 7 summarizes them nicely as a "stiff-necked" Nation who carried their Egyptian idols after they were saved by the blood of the Lamb
  5. God issued Israel a writ of divorce for whoring spiritually with demon idols
  6. God called Israel, "Lo-ammi" - "you are not my people"
  7. Since 720 BC Israel have been divided and scattered among the nations in chastisement
  8. Israel are ALL concluded in sin and unbelief and blindness
  9. Israel rejected and illegally murdered their Messiah
  10. Israel hates Jesus with a passion
  11. Israel's darkes hour is still to come when they embrace another "savior" - The Beast
I'm not saying we are better, but a rosy tinted picture of Israel is just not the truth. Through the centuries, as Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 predicted, Israel have been scattered, hounded and persecuted by foreigners, in chastisement. The latest of such events of note is the Holocaust of the Second World War.

But I do agree that God's surpassing love will lead them to restoration, peace and prosperity in the end. But this is not because of anything Israel will do to earn it. It is because God made a Covenant - and HE keeps His Word.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,354
1,337
113
#32
In the context of the thread we are in, the following is God's view of Israel
  1. He brought them out of Egypt with a strong arm but Israel displayed such perfidy that God let 600,000 fighting men die in the wilderness.
  2. Israel acted so abominably that in one judgement He killed 24,000 of them
  3. Far from being caretakers of God's Word, Israel refused them within days of receiving them by building a golden calf and calling it "their gods"
  4. Stephen's discourse in Acts 7 summarizes them nicely as a "stiff-necked" Nation who carried their Egyptian idols after they were saved by the blood of the Lamb
  5. God issued Israel a writ of divorce for whoring spiritually with demon idols
  6. God called Israel, "Lo-ammi" - "you are not my people"
  7. Since 720 BC Israel have been divided and scattered among the nations in chastisement
  8. Israel are ALL concluded in sin and unbelief and blindness
  9. Israel rejected and illegally murdered their Messiah
  10. Israel hates Jesus with a passion
  11. Israel's darkes hour is still to come when they embrace another "savior" - The Beast
I'm not saying we are better, but a rosy tinted picture of Israel is just not the truth. Through the centuries, as Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 predicted, Israel have been scattered, hounded and persecuted by foreigners, in chastisement. The latest of such events of note is the Holocaust of the Second World War.

But I do agree that God's surpassing love will lead them to restoration, peace and prosperity in the end. But this is not because of anything Israel will do to earn it. It is because God made a Covenant - and HE keeps His Word.
These things are all true, but there are other truths to think about.

We share the same scripture, except for a smaller portion and that portion (new testament) contains a little more than 30% of it's verses referring to or repeating the old testament.

They believe in salvation through grace, it is just that grace, they think, comes from God the Father. They do not know the Father contains Jesus.

It was the Lord who blinded their eyes to the true Messiah. They believe in a Messiah, but they think our worship of Jesus is the worship of a new God that denies God is one. Also, their descriptions of the Messiah does not agree with the description of the true Messiah.

They believe that salvation is through faith.

They share Abraham and Moses with us.

They believe that God saves them from their sins, but they believe that they must pay for their sins in this world.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
1,211
113
#33
Why would God need to rapture us before the tribulation when He means for us to share the gospel to the whole world before kings and rulers?
Mark‬ ‭13:9-10‬ ‭
But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them. The gospel must first be preached to all the nations.

The people in the tribulation are us! There won’t be a rapture and then God sends those people to share the gospel...its us...that’s why we are here now. ‭‭
FYI every time you read what Jesus preached during the 4 Gospels, always bear in mind his audience then, as stated in Matthew 15:24 and Romans 15:8. Furthermore, the gospel of the kingdom was never meant for gentiles (Matthew 10:5-7)

So you actually interpret what Paul is saying in that 1 Thess 4:16-17 passage, as the 2nd coming of Christ?

There are many Christians who believe that the Body of Christ will also go thru the Tribulation.

One question I have for these is this "Suppose a Christian takes the mark of the beast during that period of time, do they believe he will then lose his salvation?"

What are your views on this? Most of whom I ask will avoid this dilemma by adopting this doctrine "If he took the mark, that means he was never saved in the first place".

Is that your view too?
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
908
306
63
#34
For that which we discuss, that is, who the New Covenant is made with, and when, you did not go into my arguments to show them wrong. They thus stand. And if they stand, my conclusion stands.

Your only objection to my posting was your point (1) above, and you gave no verse for your conclusion.

The rest of your posting, for which I thank you for the time an effort, does not address the 50 day gap, and the giving of the New Covenant, that which the thread is about. I could comment on a number of your statements, but I run the risk of derailing the thread.

The scriptures are clear. Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Hebrews 8:8-10 clearly say that the New Covenant will be made "in that day" with ONLY Israel. And it defines which Israel. (i) The two divisions of Israel, the 10 northern Tribes and the 2 southern Tribes, and it (ii) defines them a second time by saying that it will be made with the offspring of the fathers who came out of Egypt. Further, it is a Covenant of God's Law. This term "My Law", "My Laws", "law of God" etc, in the Old Testament EXCLUSIVELY refer to the Law of Moses. And, as you know, the Church is NOT under Law.
Corban,
I believe scripture provided below teach the Jer & Eze OT promise (of a new spirit placed/dwelling inside) given to Jews, happened to Jews only, Temple Mt, 1st Pentecost (50 DAYS) post resurrection.

OT promises of a new spirit to dwell inside a persons heart:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(MY NOTE: I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts)

Eze 36:
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
(MY NOTE: The LORD say's He will put a new spirit WITHIN you)

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
(MY NOTE: The LORD say's He will His spirit WITHIN you.)

NT references of a PROMISE given to Jews = Holy Spirit will be given

Lk 24:49 And, behold, I send "the promise" of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high
(MY NOTE: Jesus teaches he will send "the promise" the Father has made)

Jn 7:
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)
(MY NOTE: Jesus foretells of the giving/out pouring/sealing of His INDWELLING Holy Spirit yet be given to believers. AFTER his resurrection)

Acts 1:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for "the promise" of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me
(MY NOTE: Jesus tells them to wait in Jerusalem for "the promise" of the Father)

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
(MY NOTE: Jesus foretells the giving/baptism/out pouring of His INDWELLING Holy Spirit to come)

New Covenant is an Spiritual Sealing: Christ's baptism with His INDWELLING Holy Spirit

Acts 2:
1 (A) when the day of Pentecost was fully come
(MY NOTE: When the day of Pentecost had fully come. 50 DAYS after Jesus rises from the grave)

4 And they were all "filled with the Holy Spirit" and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
(MY NOTE: Here it is: FILLED with the Holy Spirit, NT begins right here. Christ's baptism with His saving/sealing INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

Corban,
The New Testament began with Jews only on the Temple Mt, 1st Pentecost post resurrection. When God FILLED/baptized Jews, that believed Jesus was their long Promised Messiah, with His Holy Spirit)

Corban
It's the day of firstfruits when the sheaf is raised/lifted-up that Christ was raised/lifted-up. 50 DAYS later is the Pentecost wheat harvest. 3000 souls are harvested at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Acts2:41) The 50 day countdown starts at firstfruits. Because until Jesus is lifted/raised up, His death on a cross is like any other. The resurrection ends the Old Covenant & the 50 DAY transition begins.

A few years later Gentiles are given the same OT/NT Promise = Baptism with God's indwelling Holy Spirit here:

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(MY NOTE: These are gentiles that Gods Holy Spirit fell on/indwells)

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: The Jew that witness this are ASTONISHED that God has in indwelt gentiles.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(MY NOTE: Peter acknowledges God has given GENTILES the New Covenant PROMISE of His indwelling Holy Spirit)

Acts 11:
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
(MY NOTE: Peter is telling the Jews in Jerusalem that Gods Holy Spirit fell onto gentiles)

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: Peter quotes Matt 3:11 how the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit was given to gentiles Cornelius house)

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Find additional scripture support below: Especially Eph 3:6

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.
(MY NOTE: Christ SEALS believers with Gods promise of the INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
(MY NOTE: God's Spirit DWELLS in every believer)

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us.
(MY NOTE: God places/seals his love in our hearts via His INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

1 Cor 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
(MY NOTE: Every believers body is a temple of Gods INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
(MY NOTE: God reveals a secret to gentiles = Christ DWELLS IN you)

Eph 3:6 This mystery is that thru the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of 1 body, & sharers together in the promise "in Christ"
(MY NOTE: Gentiles are heirs with Israel & share in Christ's PROMISED INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

Ehp 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
(MY NOTE: Believers are SEALED by Gods INDWELLING Holy Spirit until the day thier Adamic corruptible bodies are redeemed & transformed into, eternal, incorruptible Heavenly bodies)

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
(MY NOTE: The Comforter/Holy Spirit will abide with you FOREVER. This scripture is spoken to Jews & later becomes applicable to Jew Acts 2:4 & Gentile Acts 10:44.)

CONCLUSION:
Gods Jer, Eze New Covenant promise to Israel (many rejected) was fulfilled on the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Acts 2:4). And expanded to gentiles a few years later at Cornelius house (Acts 10:44-45) Peace JJ.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,371
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#35
Corban,
I believe scripture provided below teach the Jer & Eze OT promise (of a new spirit placed/dwelling inside) given to Jews, happened to Jews only, Temple Mt, 1st Pentecost (50 DAYS) post resurrection.

OT promises of a new spirit to dwell inside a persons heart:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(MY NOTE: I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts)

Eze 36:
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
(MY NOTE: The LORD say's He will put a new spirit WITHIN you)

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
(MY NOTE: The LORD say's He will His spirit WITHIN you.)

NT references of a PROMISE given to Jews = Holy Spirit will be given

Lk 24:49 And, behold, I send "the promise" of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high
(MY NOTE: Jesus teaches he will send "the promise" the Father has made)

Jn 7:
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)
(MY NOTE: Jesus foretells of the giving/out pouring/sealing of His INDWELLING Holy Spirit yet be given to believers. AFTER his resurrection)

Acts 1:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for "the promise" of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me
(MY NOTE: Jesus tells them to wait in Jerusalem for "the promise" of the Father)

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
(MY NOTE: Jesus foretells the giving/baptism/out pouring of His INDWELLING Holy Spirit to come)

New Covenant is an Spiritual Sealing: Christ's baptism with His INDWELLING Holy Spirit

Acts 2:
1 (A) when the day of Pentecost was fully come
(MY NOTE: When the day of Pentecost had fully come. 50 DAYS after Jesus rises from the grave)

4 And they were all "filled with the Holy Spirit" and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
(MY NOTE: Here it is: FILLED with the Holy Spirit, NT begins right here. Christ's baptism with His saving/sealing INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

Corban,
The New Testament began with Jews only on the Temple Mt, 1st Pentecost post resurrection. When God FILLED/baptized Jews, that believed Jesus was their long Promised Messiah, with His Holy Spirit)

Corban
It's the day of firstfruits when the sheaf is raised/lifted-up that Christ was raised/lifted-up. 50 DAYS later is the Pentecost wheat harvest. 3000 souls are harvested at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Acts2:41) The 50 day countdown starts at firstfruits. Because until Jesus is lifted/raised up, His death on a cross is like any other. The resurrection ends the Old Covenant & the 50 DAY transition begins.

A few years later Gentiles are given the same OT/NT Promise = Baptism with God's indwelling Holy Spirit here:

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(MY NOTE: These are gentiles that Gods Holy Spirit fell on/indwells)

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: The Jew that witness this are ASTONISHED that God has in indwelt gentiles.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(MY NOTE: Peter acknowledges God has given GENTILES the New Covenant PROMISE of His indwelling Holy Spirit)

Acts 11:
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
(MY NOTE: Peter is telling the Jews in Jerusalem that Gods Holy Spirit fell onto gentiles)

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: Peter quotes Matt 3:11 how the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit was given to gentiles Cornelius house)

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Find additional scripture support below: Especially Eph 3:6

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.
(MY NOTE: Christ SEALS believers with Gods promise of the INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
(MY NOTE: God's Spirit DWELLS in every believer)

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us.
(MY NOTE: God places/seals his love in our hearts via His INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

1 Cor 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
(MY NOTE: Every believers body is a temple of Gods INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
(MY NOTE: God reveals a secret to gentiles = Christ DWELLS IN you)

Eph 3:6 This mystery is that thru the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of 1 body, & sharers together in the promise "in Christ"
(MY NOTE: Gentiles are heirs with Israel & share in Christ's PROMISED INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

Ehp 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
(MY NOTE: Believers are SEALED by Gods INDWELLING Holy Spirit until the day thier Adamic corruptible bodies are redeemed & transformed into, eternal, incorruptible Heavenly bodies)

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
(MY NOTE: The Comforter/Holy Spirit will abide with you FOREVER. This scripture is spoken to Jews & later becomes applicable to Jew Acts 2:4 & Gentile Acts 10:44.)

CONCLUSION:
Gods Jer, Eze New Covenant promise to Israel (many rejected) was fulfilled on the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Acts 2:4). And expanded to gentiles a few years later at Cornelius house (Acts 10:44-45) Peace JJ.
Thank you for your reply. You have gone to much trouble again and I appreciate it. But the discussion is not about Israelites receiving the Holy Spirit. The discussion is about;
  1. Is the New Covenant given to Israel alone
  2. Is the New Covenant in force now, or must it wait for the resurrection, gathering and reunification of the 12 Tribes that sprang from Jacob
I maintain that;
  1. The New Covenant is made with Israel alone (Jer.31:31; Heb.8:8). These are clear and unambiguous statements of a prophet to whom was NOT revealed the Church (Rom.16:25; Eph.3:5, 9 etc.)
  2. The blood of Christ achieves multiple things, ONE of which is the RATIFYING of the future New Covenant with reunited Israel
  3. The CONTENT of the new Covenant - the terms of the Contract - is the Law of Moses (Jer.31:33)

What you have to do, if you disagree with these unambiguous statements, is to show;
  1. scriptures that include the Church in this Covenant made with Israel
  2. scriptures that show that the First Covenant of Law is void
  3. scriptures that show why the Church is given a Covenant of Law
  4. scriptures that show what OLD Covenant the Church was under so that this one is called "NEW"
I will gladly discuss the giving of the Holy Spirit on another thread - if you wish.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,354
1,337
113
#36
  1. The New Covenant is made with Israel alone (Jer.31:31; Heb.8:8). These are clear and unambiguous statements of a prophet to whom was NOT revealed the Church (Rom.16:25; Eph.3:5, 9 etc.)
  1. The idea that when the Lord gave instructions to Israel, the gentiles were forbidden to listen is refuted in many scriptures. Here is one: Deut: 10: …17For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, mighty, and awesome God, showing no partiality and accepting no bribe. 18He executes justice for the fatherless and widow, and He loves the foreigner, giving him food and clothing. 19So you also must love the foreigner, since you yourselves were foreigners in the land of Egypt.…
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
908
306
63
#37
I maintain that; The New Covenant is made with Israel alone (Jer.31:31; Heb.8:8).
Jer 31:31 We have already agreed the Lord cuts a new covenant with Israel.

I can't find the word EXCLUSIVE in any text. I have a couple bible word search programs & the word exclusive comes up ZERO times.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(MY NOTE: The Lord says; the new covenant we will make with Israel is: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts. Corban, that's exactly what what happened at Pentecost Acts 2:4 (many rejected) & is expanded to include gentiles Acts 10:44-45. Whereby I maintain that the new covenant isn't exclusive to Israel)

Heb 8:8 We have already agreed the Lord cuts a new covenant with Israel. We don't agree its exclusive.

Two verses later:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(MY NOTE: The Lord says; the new covenant we will make with Israel is: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts. Corban, that's exactly what what happened at Pentecost Acts 2:4 (many rejected) & is expanded to include gentiles Acts 10:44-45. Whereby, I maintain that the new covenant isn't exclusive to Israel)
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
1,211
113
#38
Jer 31:31 We have already agreed the Lord cuts a new covenant with Israel.

I can't find the word EXCLUSIVE in any text. I have a couple bible word search programs & the word exclusive comes up ZERO times.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(MY NOTE: The Lord says; the new covenant we will make with Israel is: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts. Corban, that's exactly what what happened at Pentecost Acts 2:4 (many rejected) & is expanded to include gentiles Acts 10:44-45. Whereby I maintain that the new covenant isn't exclusive to Israel)

Heb 8:8 We have already agreed the Lord cuts a new covenant with Israel. We don't agree its exclusive.

Two verses later:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(MY NOTE: The Lord says; the new covenant we will make with Israel is: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts. Corban, that's exactly what what happened at Pentecost Acts 2:4 (many rejected) & is expanded to include gentiles Acts 10:44-45. Whereby, I maintain that the new covenant isn't exclusive to Israel)
Paul never once quoted Hebrews 8:8 nor jeri 31 31 for the body of Christ.

That is how you know it’s exclusive to the nation Israel
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#39
  1. The idea that when the Lord gave instructions to Israel, the gentiles were forbidden to listen is refuted in many scriptures. Here is one: Deut: 10: …17For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, mighty, and awesome God, showing no partiality and accepting no bribe. 18He executes justice for the fatherless and widow, and He loves the foreigner, giving him food and clothing. 19So you also must love the foreigner, since you yourselves were foreigners in the land of Egypt.…
If I go down to the local Chevy dealer and buy a car, it is usual to sign a contract. I have to fulfill terms and the dealer has to fulfill terms. Three days later, you walk in and say that you want to be part of the contract. The dealer will politely tell you that it is not possible, the girl-Friday who makes the tea, and who hears you will smirk, and if you took the dealership to the Supreme Court they would not even hear the matter. But the judge might refer you for psycological evaluation.

  1. The Covenant made with Noah is made "with all flesh on the earth" (Gen.9:17). It applies to you and your dog. If you or your dog sheds blood, your dog's and/or your blood must be shed.
  2. The next Covenant - that of Promise - was made exclusively with Abraham and his SEED via Jacob. The Church becomes eligible for this status, not by becoming physical seed of Jacob, but by being IN Christ (Gal.3.29) Who is physical seed of Abraham. There is no other way to become involved with it.
  3. The next Covenant was made 430 years later at Horeb in Sinai with the seed of Jacob. One of the terms of this Contract is; No relations are allowed with the Nations (Gentiles), BUT ... if a stranger came to live with the Israelites, the same Laws applied to him as to the Israelite. Outside of Israel this Contract does not apply. The purpose of this Covenant was to enable Israel to be ritually clean to host God and manage the Land without polluting it. Gods part was to bless them temporally, protect their borders and extend their days in the Land. If Israel broke the Laws, God would expel them from the Land they had polluted.
  4. This First Contract of Law was utterly broken by Israel and God, having shown Israel that they could not keep the is Law, not because the Law was bad, but because of the weakness of their flesh, and their hearts of stone, has decided to replace this Contract of Law with another Contract which contains the same Laws. But to enable Israel to keep it, and not be ejected from their Land again, God will give the Israelite a new heart and a new (human) spirit. Out of the heart are the issues of life and your human spirit is your source of vitality (Jas.2:26). With new and amenable hearts and spirits, Israel have the wherewithal to keep the Law, and so never again be ejected.
The last two Contracts have nothing to do with a Christian, unless, as one has pointed out, you are one of the twelve Apostles who will judge Israel in the Messianic age.

I sense that you are one of those generous people who wishes everybody well. You like to think of something positive in every man. Well and good. But if God makes a Contract with a Nation, He made it exclusively with that Nation. If He applied it to anybody else He would be unrighteous. Other men may admire it. Some others might follow its precepts. Some others may loudly claim that this Contract is with them too. It isn't. God will make a passing intellectual note of that man's folly, and continue with what He is doing. The man can do what he likes until he fasts in sack-cloth and ashes, but the Contract just isn't made with him.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#40
Jer 31:31 We have already agreed the Lord cuts a new covenant with Israel.

I can't find the word EXCLUSIVE in any text. I have a couple bible word search programs & the word exclusive comes up ZERO times.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(MY NOTE: The Lord says; the new covenant we will make with Israel is: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts. Corban, that's exactly what what happened at Pentecost Acts 2:4 (many rejected) & is expanded to include gentiles Acts 10:44-45. Whereby I maintain that the new covenant isn't exclusive to Israel)

Heb 8:8 We have already agreed the Lord cuts a new covenant with Israel. We don't agree its exclusive.

Two verses later:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(MY NOTE: The Lord says; the new covenant we will make with Israel is: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts. Corban, that's exactly what what happened at Pentecost Acts 2:4 (many rejected) & is expanded to include gentiles Acts 10:44-45. Whereby, I maintain that the new covenant isn't exclusive to Israel)
I'm going to take the chance that you are an intelligent and honest student of the Bible. I am also going to assume that English is your mother tongue. So, I will refer you to my posting # 39 without comment.

You have my deepest respect and I wish you all God's blessings.