Old to New Covenant a 50 day transition

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FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
908
306
63
#41
I'm going to take the chance that you are an intelligent and honest student of the Bible. I am also going to assume that English is your mother tongue. So, I will refer you to my posting # 39 without comment.

You have my deepest respect and I wish you all God's blessings.
Corban,
I read post #39, I doubt you'll be surprised it hasn't changed my view. I hope you will afford me the same courtesy.

God cuts a covenant with Abram (Gen 12:1-3) void of law. Verse 3 states ALL families of the earth be blessed. Gen 12:15 speaks to the unconditional nature of that covenant promise.

Gal 3:
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was 430 years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(MY NOTE: The Abrahamic covenant is separate from & not annulled by the Mosaic covenant that is cut with Israel only)

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
(MY NOTE: Abraham receives his covenant promise where ALL families will be blessed via his coming seed/Christ void from any Mosais laws)

Heb 7:
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
(MY NOTE: Jesus mediates a more perfect all inclusive (faith required) new covenant. Better then/sepratate from the Old Mosaic Levitical priesthood)

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
(MY NOTE: a change of the law is required)

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
(MY NOTE: The law covenant brought death due to sin. The new covenant brings life thru faith in Christ)

Heb 8:
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(MY NOTE: The old covenant (which BTW Israel agreed to (Ex 19:8) & broke (Jer 31:31). Vanished Acts 2:4 when Jesus sent the Promise & baptized the believing Jews with his salvation sealing/eternal life giving Holy Spirit.)

Amplified Bible
2 Cor 3:
1 Are we starting to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some [false teachers], letters of recommendation to you or from you? [No!]

2 You are our letter [of recommendation], written in our hearts, recognized and read by everyone.

3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4 Such is the confidence and steadfast reliance and absolute trust that we have through Christ toward God.

5 Not that we are sufficiently qualified in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency and qualifications come from God.

6 He has qualified us [making us sufficient] as ministers of a new covenant [of salvation through Christ], not of the letter [of a written code] but of the Spirit; for the letter [of the Law] kills [by revealing sin and demanding obedience], but the Spirit gives life.

The brackets above are from the AMP translators not from me.

King James Bible
2 Cor 3:
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(MY NOTE: 2 Cor is written to believers (see 2 Cor 1:1. BTW Corinth is in Greece not Israel). The apostle say's in vs 5-6 that God has made US (Greek gentiles) ministers of the spiritual life giving new testament. NOT of the old testament that requires death because of sin.

Eph 3:6 This mystery is that thru the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of 1 body, & sharers together in the promise "in Christ"
(MY NOTE: Gentiles are heirs with Israel & share in Christ's PROMISED INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

Corban,
2 Cor 3:6 proclaims gentiles to be ministers of the new covenant. Eph 3:6 proclaims gentiles are heirs with Israel via Christ Holy Spirit in them).

Finally,
Our exchange has been a rare, pleasurable, personal attack free discussion. May is grace be multiplied to you & yours. JJ
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,354
1,337
113
#42
If I go down to the local Chevy dealer and buy a car, it is usual to sign a contract. I have to fulfill terms and the dealer has to fulfill terms. Three days later, you walk in and say that you want to be part of the contract. The dealer will politely tell you that it is not possible, the girl-Friday who makes the tea, and who hears you will smirk, and if you took the dealership to the Supreme Court they would not even hear the matter. But the judge might refer you for psycological evaluation.

  1. The Covenant made with Noah is made "with all flesh on the earth" (Gen.9:17). It applies to you and your dog. If you or your dog sheds blood, your dog's and/or your blood must be shed.
  2. The next Covenant - that of Promise - was made exclusively with Abraham and his SEED via Jacob. The Church becomes eligible for this status, not by becoming physical seed of Jacob, but by being IN Christ (Gal.3.29) Who is physical seed of Abraham. There is no other way to become involved with it.
  3. The next Covenant was made 430 years later at Horeb in Sinai with the seed of Jacob. One of the terms of this Contract is; No relations are allowed with the Nations (Gentiles), BUT ... if a stranger came to live with the Israelites, the same Laws applied to him as to the Israelite. Outside of Israel this Contract does not apply. The purpose of this Covenant was to enable Israel to be ritually clean to host God and manage the Land without polluting it. Gods part was to bless them temporally, protect their borders and extend their days in the Land. If Israel broke the Laws, God would expel them from the Land they had polluted.
  4. This First Contract of Law was utterly broken by Israel and God, having shown Israel that they could not keep the is Law, not because the Law was bad, but because of the weakness of their flesh, and their hearts of stone, has decided to replace this Contract of Law with another Contract which contains the same Laws. But to enable Israel to keep it, and not be ejected from their Land again, God will give the Israelite a new heart and a new (human) spirit. Out of the heart are the issues of life and your human spirit is your source of vitality (Jas.2:26). With new and amenable hearts and spirits, Israel have the wherewithal to keep the Law, and so never again be ejected.
The last two Contracts have nothing to do with a Christian, unless, as one has pointed out, you are one of the twelve Apostles who will judge Israel in the Messianic age.

I sense that you are one of those generous people who wishes everybody well. You like to think of something positive in every man. Well and good. But if God makes a Contract with a Nation, He made it exclusively with that Nation. If He applied it to anybody else He would be unrighteous. Other men may admire it. Some others might follow its precepts. Some others may loudly claim that this Contract is with them too. It isn't. God will make a passing intellectual note of that man's folly, and continue with what He is doing. The man can do what he likes until he fasts in sack-cloth and ashes, but the Contract just isn't made with him.
What does all this have to do with that our God is a God of all humans, our God had to work with the Hebrews because all others denied Him, but our God has always wanted all humans to accept Him, not just the Hebrews. If the nations would have listened, our God would want them to, and this is stated several times in the old testament. Your "Israel only" is not found in scripture because it is not true.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,371
421
83
69
#43
Corban,
I read post #39, I doubt you'll be surprised it hasn't changed my view. I hope you will afford me the same courtesy.

God cuts a covenant with Abram (Gen 12:1-3) void of law. Verse 3 states ALL families of the earth be blessed. Gen 12:15 speaks to the unconditional nature of that covenant promise.

Gal 3:
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was 430 years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(MY NOTE: The Abrahamic covenant is separate from & not annulled by the Mosaic covenant that is cut with Israel only)

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
(MY NOTE: Abraham receives his covenant promise where ALL families will be blessed via his coming seed/Christ void from any Mosais laws)

Heb 7:
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
(MY NOTE: Jesus mediates a more perfect all inclusive (faith required) new covenant. Better then/sepratate from the Old Mosaic Levitical priesthood)

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
(MY NOTE: a change of the law is required)

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
(MY NOTE: The law covenant brought death due to sin. The new covenant brings life thru faith in Christ)

Heb 8:
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(MY NOTE: The old covenant (which BTW Israel agreed to (Ex 19:8) & broke (Jer 31:31). Vanished Acts 2:4 when Jesus sent the Promise & baptized the believing Jews with his salvation sealing/eternal life giving Holy Spirit.)

Amplified Bible
2 Cor 3:
1 Are we starting to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some [false teachers], letters of recommendation to you or from you? [No!]

2 You are our letter [of recommendation], written in our hearts, recognized and read by everyone.

3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4 Such is the confidence and steadfast reliance and absolute trust that we have through Christ toward God.

5 Not that we are sufficiently qualified in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency and qualifications come from God.

6 He has qualified us [making us sufficient] as ministers of a new covenant [of salvation through Christ], not of the letter [of a written code] but of the Spirit; for the letter [of the Law] kills [by revealing sin and demanding obedience], but the Spirit gives life.

The brackets above are from the AMP translators not from me.

King James Bible
2 Cor 3:
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(MY NOTE: 2 Cor is written to believers (see 2 Cor 1:1. BTW Corinth is in Greece not Israel). The apostle say's in vs 5-6 that God has made US (Greek gentiles) ministers of the spiritual life giving new testament. NOT of the old testament that requires death because of sin.

Eph 3:6 This mystery is that thru the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of 1 body, & sharers together in the promise "in Christ"
(MY NOTE: Gentiles are heirs with Israel & share in Christ's PROMISED INDWELLING Holy Spirit)

Corban,
2 Cor 3:6 proclaims gentiles to be ministers of the new covenant. Eph 3:6 proclaims gentiles are heirs with Israel via Christ Holy Spirit in them).

Finally,
Our exchange has been a rare, pleasurable, personal attack free discussion. May is grace be multiplied to you & yours. JJ
Thank you for the exchange, and God bless.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,514
9,020
113
#44
What does all this have to do with that our God is a God of all humans, our God had to work with the Hebrews because all others denied Him, but our God has always wanted all humans to accept Him, not just the Hebrews. If the nations would have listened, our God would want them to, and this is stated several times in the old testament. Your "Israel only" is not found in scripture because it is not true.
Actually, it's your "all nations" idea that is not found in Scripture. If you think it is, then please provide quotations of Scripture that clearly and unambiguously teach that God intended all nations to be included in His covenant made on Sinai.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,371
421
83
69
#45
What does all this have to do with that our God is a God of all humans, our God had to work with the Hebrews because all others denied Him, but our God has always wanted all humans to accept Him, not just the Hebrews. If the nations would have listened, our God would want them to, and this is stated several times in the old testament. Your "Israel only" is not found in scripture because it is not true.
O.K. But what is your aversion for posting scripture to support your claims? And if my statements are incorrect, show it from the plain language. I have not added nor subtracted in my proffered scriptures. When did God address the Nations with the Law? How is a man "accepted by the Law"? After reading the conclusion of Romans Chapter 7, what would Law have profited the Nations?

That Israel alone is the recipient of the Covenants is because;
  • The Law was given to them in the Wilderness
  • No other Nation was privy to it. Only Israel was present at Horeb
  • No other Nation is selected for it
  • No other Nation broke it. How could they if it was not commanded of them?
  • No other nation is judged by Law (Rom.2:11-12)
  • No other Nation ratified it in blood
  • No other Nation agreed to it
Yesterday I made a Covenant with McAfee for a malware protection program. Are all men part of this? If so, why have they not paid?
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
220
43
#46
FYI every time you read what Jesus preached during the 4 Gospels, always bear in mind his audience then, as stated in Matthew 15:24 and Romans 15:8. Furthermore, the gospel of the kingdom was never meant for gentiles (Matthew 10:5-7)

So you actually interpret what Paul is saying in that 1 Thess 4:16-17 passage, as the 2nd coming of Christ?

There are many Christians who believe that the Body of Christ will also go thru the Tribulation.

One question I have for these is this "Suppose a Christian takes the mark of the beast during that period of time, do they believe he will then lose his salvation?"

What are your views on this? Most of whom I ask will avoid this dilemma by adopting this doctrine "If he took the mark, that means he was never saved in the first place".

Is that your view too?
I don’t know that the gospel was never meant for gentiles...For God so loved the world is what John tells us. Not just the Jews or ok..I guess the gentiles too..but God so loved the world. Which tells me He loves us all.


Is this not the rapture..Where we go to meet the Lord in the clouds.

‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.​

I am one of those who believes that us Christinas will go through the tribulation until the wrath of God..and then we will be raptured because God has not destine us for wrath.

Yes, I do believe that any Christian who pledges his allegiance to the antichrist by taking the mark will lose their salvation.

Revelation‬ ‭14:9-11‬ ‭
Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.​
‭‭

I believe that any Christian can fall away from the faith and lose their salvation by doing that...taking the mark is a form of falling away.

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.​

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Some people say that its not real Christinas that fall away from the faith...but how can you fall away from the faith if you’re not a real Christian? Doesn’t that mean you have to first have faith?

Some people say that Hebrews are not talking to Christians here. And I say...who can be partakers of the Holy Spirit? From what I know only Christians can become partakers of the Holy Spirit.

‭‭John‬ ‭14:16-17‬ ‭
I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.


We, Christians still have free will..we can choose to abide in God or not and the Holy Spirit will help us be steadfast in our faith if we ask Him..but anyone can defect at any time...God doesn’t make us do anything. That’s why once saved always saved is such a deadly and false theory. One assumes that they can’t lose what God gave and give verses that I don’t think says what they think it says as reasons why when there are obvious verses, like Hebrews 6:4-6 and even Hebrews 10..which says you can shrink back to destruction...says very bluntly that osas is false.

Hebrews‬ ‭10:37-39‬ ‭
FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.​

I also think of Paul in Romans 11..God doesn’t guarantee us...He just provides the way of salvation.

Romans‬ ‭11:19-22‬ ‭
You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

We are being saved day by day...its not a done deal yet.
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.​

If you stop believing on the Lord Jesus Christ...does God want you to be in heaven with Him when it is the way to salvation? Aren’t you then making your own way to God..and that doesn’t work..there is only one way to the Father...through the Son.

John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
‭‭
Anyway..that’s my thinking on these things. :)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,124
4,521
113
#47
FYI every time you read what Jesus preached during the 4 Gospels, always bear in mind his audience then, as stated in Matthew 15:24 and Romans 15:8. Furthermore, the gospel of the kingdom was never meant for gentiles (Matthew 10:5-7)

So you actually interpret what Paul is saying in that 1 Thess 4:16-17 passage, as the 2nd coming of Christ?

There are many Christians who believe that the Body of Christ will also go thru the Tribulation.

One question I have for these is this "Suppose a Christian takes the mark of the beast during that period of time, do they believe he will then lose his salvation?"

What are your views on this? Most of whom I ask will avoid this dilemma by adopting this doctrine "If he took the mark, that means he was never saved in the first place".

Is that your view too?
One of the best teachings on how we are become Israel is the Epistle to the Ephesians.

It is taught in my places throughout the Word, but this particular writing is easiest to learn.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
1,211
113
#48
One of the best teachings on how we are become Israel is the Epistle to the Ephesians.

It is taught in my places throughout the Word, but this particular writing is easiest to learn.
Why don’t you quote the scripture then?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
1,211
113
#49
I don’t know that the gospel was never meant for gentiles...For God so loved the world is what John tells us. Not just the Jews or ok..I guess the gentiles too..but God so loved the world. Which tells me He loves us all.


Is this not the rapture..Where we go to meet the Lord in the clouds.

‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.​

I am one of those who believes that us Christinas will go through the tribulation until the wrath of God..and then we will be raptured because God has not destine us for wrath.

Yes, I do believe that any Christian who pledges his allegiance to the antichrist by taking the mark will lose their salvation.

Revelation‬ ‭14:9-11‬ ‭
Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.​
‭‭

I believe that any Christian can fall away from the faith and lose their salvation by doing that...taking the mark is a form of falling away.

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.​

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Some people say that its not real Christinas that fall away from the faith...but how can you fall away from the faith if you’re not a real Christian? Doesn’t that mean you have to first have faith?

Some people say that Hebrews are not talking to Christians here. And I say...who can be partakers of the Holy Spirit? From what I know only Christians can become partakers of the Holy Spirit.

‭‭John‬ ‭14:16-17‬ ‭
I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.


We, Christians still have free will..we can choose to abide in God or not and the Holy Spirit will help us be steadfast in our faith if we ask Him..but anyone can defect at any time...God doesn’t make us do anything. That’s why once saved always saved is such a deadly and false theory. One assumes that they can’t lose what God gave and give verses that I don’t think says what they think it says as reasons why when there are obvious verses, like Hebrews 6:4-6 and even Hebrews 10..which says you can shrink back to destruction...says very bluntly that osas is false.

Hebrews‬ ‭10:37-39‬ ‭
FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.​

I also think of Paul in Romans 11..God doesn’t guarantee us...He just provides the way of salvation.

Romans‬ ‭11:19-22‬ ‭
You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

We are being saved day by day...its not a done deal yet.
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.​

If you stop believing on the Lord Jesus Christ...does God want you to be in heaven with Him when it is the way to salvation? Aren’t you then making your own way to God..and that doesn’t work..there is only one way to the Father...through the Son.

John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
‭‭
Anyway..that’s my thinking on these things. :)
Yes John 3:16 is such a popular verse people memorized that when people encounter verses like Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24, Mark 7:27, people tend to discount what Jesus really meant those latter passages.

I would propose that, under prophecy, Gentiles are to be blessed thru the rise of Israel (Genesis 12:3). So when Jesus was sent to Earth, it was to lead to the rise of Israel first, and followed by all gentiles.

That is how you reconcile all these passages.

As for the loss of salvation among Christians, yes, you have made your case. I can understand why you would naturally believe that the Body of Christ will be going thru the Tribulation too.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
4,367
1,026
113
#50
I will try to explain what is missing.
The Jewish people are God's chosen people. Even though they which were scattered to the ends of the earth according to the word of the Lord so they are brought back to the land of promise.
Even today the lost tribes are returning to Israel according to the word of the Lord.
"My sheep hear my voice"
They have kept the word of the Lord for centuries and because of this there persecution has been great.
For God said Israel shall be a stumbling block and become a cup of trembling to all the nation's.

It is true that Israel will enter in to a covenant with the man of sin but only for a season.
Jesus prophied this ....I have come in my father's name and you do not receive me, but one will come in his own name him you will receive.

Jesus was not against the jews but against the Pharisees a sect of jews that added to the word of God.
Making the law of God a out word appearance to be kept. Bringing God's word down to rituals and ceremonies. They did not serve the law but had the law serve them.

These are the wolves in sheep's clothing. To Lord over the people.
We have the same problem in the church today. Do we not?

The titles of Jesus up to his Ascension.
Goel.......redeemer.
High priest.....advocate.. intercessor.
Pass over lamb..... sacrifice...
Son of david.... Melchizedek a sitting king.
Prophet.....tells us of things to come.
Son of God.....the expressed image of God.
The word of God.....the creator himself.
The way, the truth, the life,
The alpha and the omega.
Bread of life...Mana from heaven...sustainer. word of God.
And so many more titles.

Israel has been observing pass over since there delivery out of egypt does that not make them Pentecostal? Even though they do not recognize it yet.
Are they not of all kindred and tongue due to the scattering. Compare to the upper room event.

I will stop here to wait for replys if any . One also might consider the re-birth of israel in 1948. One of the greatest fulfilled prophecy since jesus. And now Jerusalem Declared it's capital after much debate in 2020.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#51
My only question is, how does anyone know the ten lost tribes are returning when they were lost and no one knows or know where they were? This is an honest question.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
908
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#52
My only question is, how does anyone know the ten lost tribes are returning when they were lost and no one knows or know where they were? This is an honest question.
Here maybe, I'll let you be the judge.

Matt 13:
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
(MY NOTE: In this parable the wheat is the elect)

Matt 24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(MY NOTE: A world wide gathering of God's elect)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,124
4,521
113
#53
My thinking has always been come the resurrection the Lost Ten who believe will be resurrected along with all gentiles who have come to beleive.. I know the Father is not about to lose anyone. Thank you for the replay.