ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS... I THINK NOT!
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S
It's like this. When you STUDY the scripture,as 2nd Timothy 2:15(King James Bible,by the way) and try to get God's(not man's )approval, then you will have NO(and I mean ABSOLUTELY NO) trouble believing once saved-always. Now this crap about we who believe that believe this "I'll live any way I want to." stuff is a lie. Certainly, when you get saved ,it secures you a home in heaven. But we ALL live every day however we decide to. And NOONE can tell me, and I believe it, that they are 100% obedient to God ALL the time. You would HAVE to be to "live right." If salvation could EVER be lost. the we would be wasting our time worshipping a God who would NOT be who HE says He is. The entire purpose of salvation is to save us from paying for ours sins in hell (which would be the sin debt we owe God.) Our lifestyle after we are saved is to win others to Christ and benefit us at the judgement seat of Christ,not the great white throne judgement. That is reserved for the lost.As I said on another thread, this discussion about once saved-always saved will go on until we die or the Lord returns. People are going to believe what they want. My own pastor says not to take his word for everything, but study it out. That is why God said in that verse ,"approved unto God." Don't just take the scripture 100% literal, or"means what it says, says what it means,". If you don't understand the King James Bible, which is the ONLY word of God as far as I'm concerned, it is either because you are lost , or you are NOT spiritually mature enough to handle the knowledge you are asking for. Eternal security is a 100% Biblical truth. and if you study the scriptures as 2nd Timothy 2:15 say to , you will have NOP problem believing it as well. God bless. savedsince14 and mean every bit of it.
Once a person is saved they become more powerful than God? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?
John 10:28-29
[SUP]
28 [/SUP]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Was there any talk of any exceptions here or is the Word of Christ in fact True and no man is able to pluck the saved from the Lords Hand???
Do you have any bible verses to back up your position?
John 10:28-29
[SUP]
28 [/SUP]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Was there any talk of any exceptions here or is the Word of Christ in fact True and no man is able to pluck the saved from the Lords Hand???
Do you have any bible verses to back up your position?
W
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,[SUP]"[/SUP] says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” [SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. - Hebrews 10:26-31 (NKJV)
and
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. - Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV)
and
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. - Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV)
F
I am 42 years old, have been in the church since I was 6, almost always Baptist/Calvinist. I have never met anyone who believed this in my whole life, who lived a godly life. I'm talking of people I've gotten to know. Right now I'm surrounded by people who believe this way & 2 are ministers, they all have filthy mouths. All have premarital sex. All lie like they need to do it to live. There is absolutely no difference between them & and those who are atheist, except they sing christian songs. I mean not one single person !! You shall know them by their fruit.
There are so many passages and scriptures, surely you jest.
Here is a list you could go through; Scriptural refutation of "eternal Security"
F
Oh, let me add that John Calvin & Martin Luther were two people whose personal lives were twisted & corrupt. In many passages the bible instructs us not to listen to people whose lives does not line up with the Word of God but stay away from them. Calvin is a murderer & Lutheran promoted the hatred of Jews calling them dogs & saying all their possessions should be taken from them & they should be kicked out of the country.
Without holiness no man shall see the Lord !
It is historical fact that the early church did believe your salvation could be lost. Over 1000 years after Jesus, Calvin was the first person to teach this apostasy which is fulfillment of scripture speaking of the 'great falling away' in the end times. I've never seen such acceptance for unbelievable corrupt & sinful preachers & so-called 'chrisitians'. Another prophecy fuliflled, because of them the Way shall be evil spoken of. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. You can not live a godly life without the fear of the punishment of hell for a lifestyle contrary to the will of God,
Nobody preached grace & forgiveness in the bible or the early church. They preached repentance from sin & forgiveness ! Grace is the power to overcome sin which you need to do to have eternal life.
Without holiness no man shall see the Lord !
It is historical fact that the early church did believe your salvation could be lost. Over 1000 years after Jesus, Calvin was the first person to teach this apostasy which is fulfillment of scripture speaking of the 'great falling away' in the end times. I've never seen such acceptance for unbelievable corrupt & sinful preachers & so-called 'chrisitians'. Another prophecy fuliflled, because of them the Way shall be evil spoken of. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. You can not live a godly life without the fear of the punishment of hell for a lifestyle contrary to the will of God,
Nobody preached grace & forgiveness in the bible or the early church. They preached repentance from sin & forgiveness ! Grace is the power to overcome sin which you need to do to have eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15:2 "through which also you are obtaining salvation, if you bear in mind the words in which I proclaimed it -- unless indeed your faith has been unreal from the very first." (Weymouth New Testament)
Now let's return to the KJV.
Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
Now ask yourself at what point these following words of Jesus are telling us that we will save our lives and also why Jesus there said we must save our lives by doing this if his death already saved us?
Mark 8:35 "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it."
Next we see Jesus gave us a lesson that it is how we walk which saves us: John 13:10 "Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all."
Notice Paul, speaking to the church who were already believers, speaks future tense here: Romans 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
And here also to the church and also future tense: Romans 5:10 "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
So then, why does it sometimes seem to say it as though we are already saved? Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
Jude 1:5 "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not."
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Jude 1:23 “And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.”
What if any of these got tired of being on that ark and jumped overboard? 2 Peter 2:5 “And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly”
1 Peter 4:18 “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?”
We must maintain that answer of a good conscience to be saved like not jumping off of that ark: 1 Peter 3:21 “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”
James 1:21 “Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.”
Notice saving again as the thing we hope for by maintaining that good conscience:Hebrews 10:39 “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”
And now for the earlier text reading of 1 Peter 2:2 “as newborn babes, long for the spiritual milk which is without guile, that ye may grow thereby unto salvation”
Hope this helps. There is much more there if you dig for it. Many yet need to see this, so learn it and share it.
Now let's return to the KJV.
Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
Now ask yourself at what point these following words of Jesus are telling us that we will save our lives and also why Jesus there said we must save our lives by doing this if his death already saved us?
Mark 8:35 "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it."
Next we see Jesus gave us a lesson that it is how we walk which saves us: John 13:10 "Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all."
Notice Paul, speaking to the church who were already believers, speaks future tense here: Romans 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
And here also to the church and also future tense: Romans 5:10 "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
So then, why does it sometimes seem to say it as though we are already saved? Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
Jude 1:5 "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not."
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Jude 1:23 “And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.”
What if any of these got tired of being on that ark and jumped overboard? 2 Peter 2:5 “And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly”
1 Peter 4:18 “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?”
We must maintain that answer of a good conscience to be saved like not jumping off of that ark: 1 Peter 3:21 “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”
James 1:21 “Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.”
Notice saving again as the thing we hope for by maintaining that good conscience:Hebrews 10:39 “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”
And now for the earlier text reading of 1 Peter 2:2 “as newborn babes, long for the spiritual milk which is without guile, that ye may grow thereby unto salvation”
Hope this helps. There is much more there if you dig for it. Many yet need to see this, so learn it and share it.
You are someone, you can't say "no one can't pluck you out of my Father's hand" and not include yourself in that, because are you someone. If you can reject the faith just like that, then you never were saved to being with because once your saved, you are new creature, born-again, a son of God, a brother of Jesus, regenerated and justified, sanctified and being sanctified and soon to be glorified. Any true believer would never think about falling completely away from the faith.
Many have this sort of on again, off again faith: James 1:6-7 "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. "For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord."
That engrafted life-giving word which James 1:21 speaks of is that seed which once has been sown in us protects us from falling away to sin again. If our faith is not of the tried and true quality of the finest silver and gold, it wavers, dipping us in and out of the Lord's hand. "Let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord."
That engrafted life-giving word which James 1:21 speaks of is that seed which once has been sown in us protects us from falling away to sin again. If our faith is not of the tried and true quality of the finest silver and gold, it wavers, dipping us in and out of the Lord's hand. "Let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord."
M
Here's a powerful scripture. Jesus said: They who hear my word & believe on him who sent me have everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but are passed from death unto life. John 5: 24
Do you hear his word? Do you have ears to hear? Are you listening? Do you believe on him who sent Jesus? Do you have faith in God? Do you trust him? If you can answer yes to these questions? You "have everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but are passed from death unto life"
Father in heaven, Our creator, bring your truth into our minds, enable us to receive it. Bring a spirit of unity upon all of your children. Overcome the power of our common spiritual enemy bring to us a new faith, a new trust, a new love, help our unbelief. in Jesus name I pray amen? amen!
Do you hear his word? Do you have ears to hear? Are you listening? Do you believe on him who sent Jesus? Do you have faith in God? Do you trust him? If you can answer yes to these questions? You "have everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but are passed from death unto life"
Father in heaven, Our creator, bring your truth into our minds, enable us to receive it. Bring a spirit of unity upon all of your children. Overcome the power of our common spiritual enemy bring to us a new faith, a new trust, a new love, help our unbelief. in Jesus name I pray amen? amen!
E
A careful and slow reading of Hebrews 6 should demonstrate the following things:
1. Hebrews is addressed to people who are following, not people who simply consider themselves "saved" in modern thinking.
2. In chapter 6, the topic of salvation is set aside at the beginning, this dialogue is a different topic.
3. It is impossible to be once enlightened, then fall away.
It doesn't say it's impossible to renew, it says it's impossible to fall away in the first place, as if to renew.
It means a true servant doesn't take a break.
"But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak."
Read slowly. Reference the Greek if you are able.
1. Hebrews is addressed to people who are following, not people who simply consider themselves "saved" in modern thinking.
2. In chapter 6, the topic of salvation is set aside at the beginning, this dialogue is a different topic.
3. It is impossible to be once enlightened, then fall away.
It doesn't say it's impossible to renew, it says it's impossible to fall away in the first place, as if to renew.
It means a true servant doesn't take a break.
"But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak."
Read slowly. Reference the Greek if you are able.
N
II Peter 2:20-22 NKJV
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
R
Once saved, its is up to you to maintain it. By your hearts devotion to live by God's word, and follow his will and commandments. how can you refer God's salvation to a dog vomit? a Dog don't have soul like we do, so how can a dog be a new creation if it were to be born again? Aren't we more important to God than animals without a soul? its not our physical body that get born again its our very soul to our body. So were did you get that theory of a dog vomit refers to God's salvation?
if Father saves you.
you are saved.
is He like a man?
who would change His mind?
i'm a Lutheran.
but Calvinism has much truth.
if you doubt you are saved....
1) you're not
2) you think salvation is dependant on you - in which case you are not saved..repent of unbelief and no TRUST in Emmanuel.
3) iF He saves you...you are SAVED INDEED.
it ain't your stinkin plan...IT'S HIS PLAN.
and it's perfect.
you are saved.
is He like a man?
who would change His mind?
i'm a Lutheran.
but Calvinism has much truth.
if you doubt you are saved....
1) you're not
2) you think salvation is dependant on you - in which case you are not saved..repent of unbelief and no TRUST in Emmanuel.
3) iF He saves you...you are SAVED INDEED.
it ain't your stinkin plan...IT'S HIS PLAN.
and it's perfect.