ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS... I THINK NOT!

[eternally-gratefull]

(2Pe 2:20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

(2Pe 2:21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

(2Pe 2:22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

You ask about the context which is in front of us. Those who have heard the Gospel message of salvation, as evidenced by their changed behaviour, should they return to their old ways, then their end is worse than in the beginning. It is about backsliding, which is like stepping out with Jesus and then turning back to our old sinful ways (vomit). Being a Christian means a daily walk with Him. The Lord saves, but we need to keep our eyes firmly fixed in Him.

Wrong context. The whole passage concerns false prophets and teachers.

It is one thing to HEAR the gospel of truth, It is another to actually have faith in it. These people did not have faith, If you read the whole passage as I posted it, you would have seen that.

These are false believers, who returned to their true self. they played the game for a bit,, but rejected the gospel which would save them. As Peter says, their accursed..

Twist it however you please. Your taking it out of context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am afraid there are people who reject His gift.

I am afraid God knew it from the beginning, Even if they asked for it, They they would reject him, and he would not give something to them he KNEW they would reject. Agree?

 

[damombomb]

The Lord has his ways of bringing his people back. Whom he loves, he chastises

 

[PS]

Wrong context. The whole passage concerns false prophets and teachers.

It is one thing to HEAR the gospel of truth, It is another to actually have faith in it. These people did not have faith, If you read the whole passage as I posted it, you would have seen that.

These are false believers, who returned to their true self. they played the game for a bit,, but rejected the gospel which would save them. As Peter says, their accursed..

Twist it however you please. Your taking it out of context.

2Pe 2:20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

(2Pe 2:21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

(2Pe 2:22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

It is not out of context. This is the verse you quoted about the dog returning to its own vomit.

 

[PS]

I am afraid God knew it from the beginning, Even if they asked for it, They they would reject him, and he would not give something to them he KNEW they would reject. Agree?

I agree that God knows our every thought and whether we will accept his offer of salvation or not, but even so his death, resurrection, his grace and his love is there for all.

The air we breathe is there for all, it is not portioned out to individuals, and so it is with the love of God who gave his life so that we might have life more abundantly.

God bless.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2Pe 2:20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

(2Pe 2:21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

(2Pe 2:22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

It is not out of context. This is the verse you quoted about the dog returning to its own vomit.

It is out of context.

Who is the THEY who returned?

I proved it in the passage. You can't just pull passages out of scripture to form your own belief.

For if they

who are they??

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority.

They (false prophets and teachers) are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,


[SUP]12 [/SUP]But these (false prophets and teachers), like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime.

They (false prophets and teachers) are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, [SUP]14 [/SUP]having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls.

They (false prophets and teachers) have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]They (false prophets and teachers) have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; [SUP]16 [/SUP]but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

[SUP]
17 [/SUP]These (false prophets and teachers) are wells without water, clouds[SUP][b][/SUP] carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.[SUP][c][/SUP]


[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they (false prophets and teachers) speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[SUP][d][/SUP] from those who live in error.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they (false prophets and teachers) promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, after they (false prophets and teachers) have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it has happened to them (false prophets and teachers) according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[SUP][e][/SUP] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”


Notice.. it does not say they turned from the holy command which delivered them, it says they turned from the command delivered TO them (they heard it, but they never recieved it!)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree that God knows our every thought and whether we will accept his offer of salvation or not, but even so his death, resurrection, his grace and his love is there for all.

The air we breathe is there for all, it is not portioned out to individuals, and so it is with the love of God who gave his life so that we might have life more abundantly.

God bless.

I agree, it is there for all, But that does not mean all have recieved it, or that everyone who had it delivered to them will accept it.

The people in peter did not accept it.. They were never saved, they heard it, But did not recieve it fully. That is why it will be worse for them. Imagine having heard it, Believed it, (but not trusted in it) and after twisting it to something else, and bringing others in with you to this false gospel. having to live for all eternity knowing you had it in your hands??

 

[Cobus]

EG does it not join in this scripture? ... Heb6:4.... For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If it was only the false teachers and prophets, when did they taste the heavenly gift, and when were they partakers in the Holy Ghost? When were they enlightened?... When were you enlightened, or any person here that reads this... When were you partker in the Holy Ghost, the enlightment, the goodd work of God, the powers of the world to come?

Share your experiences please...

EG did ANY false teacher/prophet ever taste God's GOOD WORK?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG does it not join in this scripture? ... Heb6:4.... For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If it was only the false teachers and prophets, when did they taste the heavenly gift, and when were they partakers in the Holy Ghost? When were they enlightened?... When were you enlightened, or any person here that reads this... When were you partker in the Holy Ghost, the enlightment, the goodd work of God, the powers of the world to come?

Share your experiences please...

EG did ANY false teacher/prophet ever taste God's GOOD WORK?

Yes. they can

1. When they heard the word, they tasted it (it does not mean they gnawed on it as in John 6)
2. When they are around Gods people, and partake in the blessings associated with being around Gods people they have tasted it

Judas tasted it when he walked with Jesus personally, but he never received it.. He was one of them, as are all false prophets and teachers who creep into the church.

 

[PS]

Yes. they can

1. When they heard the word, they tasted it (it does not mean they gnawed on it as in John 6)
2. When they are around Gods people, and partake in the blessings associated with being around Gods people they have tasted it

Judas tasted it when he walked with Jesus personally, but he never received it.. He was one of them, as are all false prophets and teachers who creep into the church.

As with food for example, we can receive it, taste it, and spit it out, but by receiving it, and tasting it WE HAVE KNOWN IT.

That is a dreadful thing to do with the righteousness of God, but people do, and as the Bible says, "it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

If we taste it we know it. We are told to taste and see that the Lord is good. Psalm 34:8. Woe betide if after having tasted, people reject Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As with food for example, we can receive it, taste it, and spit it out, but by receiving it, and tasting it WE HAVE KNOWN IT.

That is a dreadful thing to do with the righteousness of God, but people do, and as the Bible says, "it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

If we taste it we know it. We are told to taste and see that the Lord is good. Psalm 34:8. Woe betide if after having tasted, people reject Him.

true.. But we are not to just taste it and keep tasting it. We are to gnaw, chew and take it all in..(john 6)

Many people taste it, but have never been fed by it to the point of being given new life from it..

A dog is always a dog.. he was never given new life or changed, thats why he will ALWAYS return to his own vomit..

 

[PS]

true.. But we are not to just taste it and keep tasting it. We are to gnaw, chew and take it all in..(john 6)

Many people taste it, but have never been fed by it to the point of being given new life from it..

A dog is always a dog.. he was never given new life or changed, thats why he will ALWAYS return to his own vomit..

Don't forget that like a dog a sinner is always a sinner and I know I am far from perfect. So yes, lets keep feeding on the Word of God.

 

[Cobus]

I believe they cannot, Jesus said the spirit of the world CANNOT recieve the Spirit of Truth. It is like their ears does not hear it, their eyes does not see it and the heart CANNOT reveive it.. God says there are two spirits, and only the one that knoweth GOD can have the Spirit of Truth....

1 John 4:6... We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

These men that tasted the of the heavenly gift NEVER had teh Truth... So it is not them that fall away... It is ones that did not ENDURE TO THE END.... It is a VERY dangerous thing to be pre-maturely thinking you are OK WITH GOD...

God cleanse us as clean as HE IS, but that does not make it SAFE YET.... Saints are already people that stopped sinning, but they need to be PERFECTED... This is the ones that tasted and partook and saw and repented to NO MORE SIN... but they are STILL INCOMPLETE..... God says HE appointed men in office to PERFECT THE SAINTS... If A SAINT STARTS SINNING AGAIN... HE IS GONE.... FOREVER....

There is such a huge misconception about the POWER OF GOD'S SALVATION.... IT IS THE MOST POWERUL THING ON EARTH!

NOTHING is more PERMANENT, MORE SURE, and HIGHER IN CALLING. NOTHING ON EARTH WILL SURVIVE, EXCEPT THE ONES GOD SAVES.... ALL saved will have GOD IN THEM. AND THEY ARE ALREADY IN GOD....Now how POWERFUL IS THAT?

I just hope you read for once what God says about HIS SALVATION.... God says... What HE starts HE WILL FINISH. Now can you name ONE thing GOD DID NOT MAKE PERFECT? Just ONE! Now if God starts to make a CHILD FOR HIMSELF, and GOD DID ALL HE DID TO MAKE THE CHILD,,,, THAT CHILD IS MADE EXACTLY LIKE HE MADE JESUS!!!! ONE WITH HIM...

One thing ADAM NEVER had, was Adam was made in the likeness and the image of God, but NEVER ONE WITH HIM. That is why Jesus came to this earth AFTER ADAM fouled it. He came to restore holiness, and to give LIFE EVERLASTING, ONE IN GOD.

Adam was in the Garden, we can be IN GOD! And in the GARDEN was chance for sin, IN GOD IS NO SIN.... We are MUCH better off than ADAM... Adam had ONE SIN AVAILABLE, IN GOD THERE ARE NO SIN AVAILABLE.... NONE... NOT ONE!!!!

God says, HE CAME TO TAKE AWAY OUR SIN... IF God takes it away, you CANNOT HAVE IT AGAIN... But you have to be made COMPLETE.... How that is done is where we start to disagree even more.... All I know is... If Jesus does save me, I will be EXACTLY to HIS STATURE AND FULNESS... If that is not perfect, THEN NOTHING IS...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe they cannot,

they did not recieve it.. Tasting it and receiving it is not the same.. If I taste it and spit it out, I reject it..

One can taste. and not receive.

one is ONLY saved, if they receive (faith)

 

[SonInMe]

''For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][a][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.''

I haven't read all of the thread, but the premise that this scripture is against OSAS is exactly the opposite of what it says. This scripture supports OSAS.

IF...its the key word in this scripture. What this scripture is doing is setting up a scenario and then debunking it. Its saying if someone is saved, they cannot lose that salvation because it would be like putting Christ back on the cross.

Agendist interpretation leads to very poor reading comprehension

 

[PS]

''For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][a][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.''

I haven't read all of the thread, but the premise that this scripture is against OSAS is exactly the opposite of what it says. This scripture supports OSAS.

IF...its the key word in this scripture. What this scripture is doing is setting up a scenario and then debunking it. Its saying if someone is saved, they cannot lose that salvation because it would be like putting Christ back on the cross.

Agendist interpretation leads to very poor reading comprehension

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.


It is saying if someone is saved and they go back AGAIN then their end is worse than the beginning.

I presume you know what AGAIN means.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.


It is saying if someone is saved and they go back AGAIN then their end is worse than the beginning.

I presume you know what AGAIN means.

No. it does not..

it says if THEY (the people the whole chapter is talking about) fall back again (leave the presence of the church, and the good things that even a non believer can gain from it)

it goes right along with 1 john,, where it talks about people who were in the church, and left and are now against christ. they were NEVER OF US (saved) for if they were TRULY OF US (saved) they never would have departed.

 

[PS]

No. it does not..

it says if THEY (the people the whole chapter is talking about) fall back again (leave the presence of the church, and the good things that even a non believer can gain from it)

it goes right along with 1 john,, where it talks about people who were in the church, and left and are now against christ. they were NEVER OF US (saved) for if they were TRULY OF US (saved) they never would have departed.

If they fall back again.

How hard is that to understand!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If they fall back again.

How hard is that to understand!

How hard is it to understand who THEY ARE??

Again is not the word you should focus on, you should focus on the word THEY, they are spoken of in the WHOLE CHAPTER as I have proven to you twice!

If I am an unbeliever and go to church and am exposed to the truth and all the blessings by being around Gods people, I have tasted the good gift of God. but never Got saved,

If I fall back again.. was I ever saved to begin with??

 

[PS]

How hard is it to understand who THEY ARE??

Again is not the word you should focus on, you should focus on the word THEY, they are spoken of in the WHOLE CHAPTER as I have proven to you twice!

If I am an unbeliever and go to church and am exposed to the truth and all the blessings by being around Gods people, I have tasted the good gift of God. but never Got saved,

If I fall back again.. was I ever saved to begin with??

I cannot be bothered.