ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS... I THINK NOT!
- Thread starter ANIOHEVTORAH
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
F
God chose to save those(His elect)whom He will save before the foundation of the world(Eph.1:4). If you are saved it is because of His grace(Eph.2:8-9).In addition, God will enable you to perservere. We are kept by His power(1Peter.1:5).Jesus said that nothing can snatch us from His hands(John 10:27-28).We are sealed by the Holy Spirit(Eph1:13-14).God has promised us eternal life and He cannot lie(Titus ). Once we have been adopted into God's family we are eternally related to Him . Praise God ! Nothing can seperate us from His love ( Romans 8 ).
E
Do what?
A dog can be trained to do certain things. much like a non believer can be trained to look and act like a believer. But a Dog will always be a dog. and return to his own vomit. Just like a non believer will return to his old way of life. Because he is still a non believer.
Not to mention. what is the context of the whole passage? Who are the THEY being spoken of here??
2 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. [SUP]3 [/SUP]By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority.
They (false prophets and teachers) are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But these (false prophets and teachers), like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime.
They (false prophets and teachers) are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, [SUP]14 [/SUP]having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls.
They (false prophets and teachers) have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]They (false prophets and teachers) have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; [SUP]16 [/SUP]but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]These (false prophets and teachers) are wells without water, clouds[SUP][b][/SUP] carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.[SUP][c][/SUP]
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they (false prophets and teachers) speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[SUP][d][/SUP] from those who live in error.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they (false prophets and teachers) promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, afterthey have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it has happened to them (false prophets and teachers) according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[SUP][e][/SUP] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
You people picking and choosing verses out of a passage and distorting it to your own interpretation to fit your faulty belief is disgusting..
A dog can be trained to do certain things. much like a non believer can be trained to look and act like a believer. But a Dog will always be a dog. and return to his own vomit. Just like a non believer will return to his old way of life. Because he is still a non believer.
Not to mention. what is the context of the whole passage? Who are the THEY being spoken of here??
2 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. [SUP]3 [/SUP]By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority.
They (false prophets and teachers) are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But these (false prophets and teachers), like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime.
They (false prophets and teachers) are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, [SUP]14 [/SUP]having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls.
They (false prophets and teachers) have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]They (false prophets and teachers) have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; [SUP]16 [/SUP]but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]These (false prophets and teachers) are wells without water, clouds[SUP][b][/SUP] carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.[SUP][c][/SUP]
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they (false prophets and teachers) speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[SUP][d][/SUP] from those who live in error.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they (false prophets and teachers) promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, afterthey have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it has happened to them (false prophets and teachers) according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[SUP][e][/SUP] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
You people picking and choosing verses out of a passage and distorting it to your own interpretation to fit your faulty belief is disgusting..
I believe that you can fall from the road, but once you have been saved and accepted Jesus Christ, you have been re-borned. We may fall from everything good and get lost out of our own will (which in this case you have choosen a different path than the one leading to salvation).
However through Jesus we find salvation, and those that understand know that only through him we will achieve this. In short, remember he tells you that he is a forgiving God, and my favorite part, no matter what, Jesus makes ALL things new!
However through Jesus we find salvation, and those that understand know that only through him we will achieve this. In short, remember he tells you that he is a forgiving God, and my favorite part, no matter what, Jesus makes ALL things new!
Repentance comes from the greek Metanoia which is primarily an after-thought, different from the former thought; a change of mind accompanied by regret and change of conduct, "change of mind and heart", or, "change of consciousness". The Bible says if you ask for forgiveness AND turn away from your sin. If we keep asking and never really have a heart to change, we are being dishonest with ourselves and God and although God knows, aren't we wasting his time and making a fool out of him? It's really a tough question
Its not necessarily about being saved its not a one and done. Its not about I am saved now let me live my life the way I want and Christ will always forgive me no matter what I do I can keep on sinning! It's not how it works! Paul's letters say that whenever sin abounds grace over abounds, but he quickly covers his tracks and says does that mean that I should keep on sinning so that grace can continue to overabound? He asks BY NO MEANS! or NO WAY JOSE! haha
and that Sarah is the million dollar question! How many people are saved or believe they are "saved" because in their understanding its as easy as saying Jesus I accept you as my Lord and savior with the escape clause *BUT I WONT CHANGE BECAUSE YOU FORGIVE ME REGARDLESS OF WHAT I DO* that's false teaching and its leading many astray!
I did not claim I save or suggest that I am any better than anyone else if you read all my posts Rick...I would suggest you reread them in case you missed every time I spoke for myself and suggested examples where I do or have done the very thing I am arguing towards. Christ saves, but being saved comes with repentance...if you say you are saved you must have come to a realization of repentance if not are you truly saved? Saved, means acknowledgement that you are a sinner, that is opening your heart to Christ and admitting your sinfulness and needing Christ to be free from them, but if you admit your sins and are not working to be free from them and instead make excuses for them you may be lying to yourself or justifying it to yourself but you are not fooling God. If your past sin does not completely disgust you and the thought of hurting your father is not greater than the urge to commit that sin have you truly changed your heart in that or did you just change your behavior? Changing behavior and changing your heart are two very distinct things. I could change my behavior and it just "look" from the outside appearance that I am doing well, but then, who am I kidding? God knows my heart no one may know but God does and God would see my hypocrisy where my behavior tells me one thing but my heart is wicked. I did not claim any holier than though mentality or that I am any better than anyone in fact I think I am far worse, understanding all the arguments I pointed out I can still and do still fall...
(2Pe 2:20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
(2Pe 2:21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
(2Pe 2:22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
You ask about the context which is in front of us. Those who have heard the Gospel message of salvation, as evidenced by their changed behaviour, should they return to their old ways, then their end is worse than in the beginning. It is about backsliding, which is like stepping out with Jesus and then turning back to our old sinful ways (vomit). Being a Christian means a daily walk with Him. The Lord saves, but we need to keep our eyes firmly fixed in Him.
E
Scripture teaches against an easy believism gospel. In fact it says belief is not enough, a licentious gospel (those who have no faith) is a false gospel.
But a works gospel (I can possibly lose salvation) is just as much a false gospel as a licentious gospel.
Both are based on pride.. and not on the work of Christ.