ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS... I THINK NOT!

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Zee_Zelot

Guest
I don't believe in once saved always saved, but I do know for a fact that if one crucifies the Son of God and then falls away, he is not able to crucify Christ again for his sins when he returns; but he will pay for his wickedness whatever way God's chooses. Think about king David with Bath-sheba 2 Samuel 11-12:... he fall away, he was no dummy, he knew he was sinning at the time he was doing his wickedness. (and please don't say he did not know Christ, because if you know the Father you the Son, or vice versa)
Hebrews 6:1-7 is talking about baptism. also see Romans 3:25 and notice the word "past".
Cain was written out of the genealogy, but Esau was not.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't believe in once saved always saved, but I do know for a fact that if one crucifies the Son of God and then falls away, he is not able to crucify Christ again for his sins when he returns; but he will pay for his wickedness whatever way God's chooses. Think about king David with Bath-sheba 2 Samuel 11-12:... he fall away, he was no dummy, he knew he was sinning at the time he was doing his wickedness. (and please don't say he did not know Christ, because if you know the Father you the Son, or vice versa)
Hebrews 6:1-7 is talking about baptism. also see Romans 3:25 and notice the word "past".
Cain was written out of the genealogy, but Esau was not.
Spiritual death is the punishment for sin.

We also suffer other things as a result of sins here on earth.

They are not related.. Your either alive in Christ or dead to him.. Either way, people still suffer the result of sin on earth (more so for the one alive in Christ because they also suffer Gods chastening)
 
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PS God says this about the ones HE GIVES THE SEED TOO, TO REMAINETH IN THEM... Some person asked if the Holy Spirit must leave a person before the person commits a sin... God says, HE GIVES HIS SEED TO REMAINETH IN THE PERSON AND THAT PERSON CANNOT SIN...

I believe this verse
just as it stands, rhen it makes sence... How can a person sin that has the Holy Spirit of God in him? HOW? It makes this verse so TRUE!!....

1 John 3:9... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

When Jesus talked about this BORN OF ABOVE, OR BORN OF GOD, OR REBORN FROM SPIRIT.... Jesus said. THat is born of flesh is flesh.... (Sinners are born of flesh).... But the ones BORN OF GOD is SPIRIT!!!Not just Spirit, HOLY SPIRIT. And God says... WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD.... WOW!!!!

Do you also see what I see.... Imagine being BORN OF GOD.... How Holy, how PERFECT, and HOW SINFREE this has to be. Imagine being BORN OF GOD....Man I cannot even think how powerful that has to be.

God giving a grown up man a REBIRTH, NOT OF FLESH but OFF HIMSELF.... Is that not what Rebirth means? I believe it is. And how many people think otherwise?

I love how God makes it very clear that if ANY PERSON is BORN of GOD, HE CANNOT SIN.... And if we understand thaat that birth, and LIFE that person is going to live, that person will live it out IN GOD, then we can understand that because there is NO SIN IN GOD, that person does not have ACCESS to sin. WHOLLY sanctified IN GOD....That is what God does when HE SAVES a person... HOW CAN THAT PERSON SIN IN GOD? HOW CAN GOD SIN IN THAT PERSON... THEY ARE ONE!!!!

NO PERSON CAN SIN WHEN HE IS ONE WITH GOD.... Even my three yearold undeerstand this, So does my eight yearold, my 22 yearold, and my 25 yearold, And so my wife 53 yearold, my oldest friend 80 years old, and I do to 56 yearold.... All you need to understnd is.... KNOW GOD AND WHAT HE CAN DO!!!!
 
F

francina

Guest
No. it does not..

it says if THEY (the people the whole chapter is talking about) fall back again (leave the presence of the church, and the good things that even a non believer can gain from it)

it goes right along with 1 john,, where it talks about people who were in the church, and left and are now against christ. they were NEVER OF US (saved) for if they were TRULY OF US (saved) they never would have departed.

Eternally-grateful is willfully blind. First of all the main disagreement with eternal security is torn apart in this 'letter' (there were no chapters originally it is referring constantly to the beginning). The main heresy is that we can sin & still be saved, which is what Calvinism teaches, hence they came up with eternal security. I recall Billy Graham saying that Johnny Cash who never overcame his bad drug habit (because he never knew the truth that it would land you in hell) was free in heaven. Whereas the bible plainly states that a 'drunkard' or a 'glutton' will not inherit the Kingdom of God, can we not safely include the drug addict ?
How about Greg Laurie talking about his mother. He was surprised & relieved to learn that she had made a confession of faith in Jesus & thought of herself as a christian. The surprise was because she had many different abusive men in her home, she was always intoxicated & neglectful. Yet he says, you see, you never can tell by the way a person lives what is in their heart. Again the bible declares the opposite, we can tell what is in your heart by exactly that, how you live. Eternal Security is a silly man made doctrine which was never heard of before John Calvin, a vile sinner to the end. This passage describes him completely since you say it speaks of false teachers being entangled in sin themselves.

To directly answer the comment, which is ridiculous, this scripture is continuing the thought of the beginning of the letter:
2Pe 1:2 May grace and peace be yours in full measure through your knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
2Pe 1:3 God's divine power has given us everything we need to live a truly religious life through our knowledge of the one who called us to share in his own glory and goodness.

2Pe 1:4 In this way he has given us the very great and precious gifts he promised, so that by means of these gifts you may escape from the destructive lust that is in the world, and may come to share the divine nature.
2Pe 1:5 For this very reason do your best to add goodness to your faith; to your goodness add knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add endurance; to your endurance add godliness;
2Pe 1:7 to your godliness add Christian affection; and to your Christian affection add love.
2Pe 1:8 These are the qualities you need, and if you have them in abundance, they will make you active and effective in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But if you do not have them, you are so shortsighted that you cannot see and have forgotten that you have been purified from your past sins.
2Pe 1:10 So then, my friends, try even harder to make God's call and his choice of you a permanent experience; if you do so, you will never abandon your faith.
2Pe 1:11 In this way you will be given the full right to enter the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
We do not escape sin by going to church !! We escape sin by an experiential knowledge of Jesus Christ. That is what the word epignósis means. It is the 'knowledge of our Lord', they made Him Lord & did not do what Peter advises in the beginning of the letter to constantly build & grow in the faith so they did what he is warning against - abandoned the faith, whiles still claiming to be a christian, like Johnny Cash.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Eternally-grateful is willfully blind. .
You are willfully blind my friend.

If sin can make us lose salvation. then We are under law not grace. Scripture proves this to be in error. Those who believe this are no different than the jews in Pauls day continually trying to add works of the law to be saved

People like you need to face the fact that if you stood in front of God this moment, you would see all the sin you commit on a daily basis, and be horrified at the prospect that you are totally undeserving of gods grace and forgiveness based on what you did just 24 hours before you were taken to his presense.

The problem people have is they never mature in Christ. The mature mature you get the more you become like paul, the more you realise how much of a sinner you really are.

How? You stop looking at the law. and you start looking at self. and how many times you chose self over God, or your neighbor in a lack of love.

Sin is NOT just the sins you all like to shove down everyones throats. Sin is anything you do with self in mine.. Which INCLUDES but is not limited to the sins you all like to profess..

You may not do all those overt sins. But the sins you do do (including sins of ommision) are just as serious in the eyes of God as those overt sins..

ALL sin would cause us to suffer eternally if not for Christ and his death. Either he payed the debt in full, and as he said "it is finished" or he did not.

You all need ot make up your mind, If you want to crucify christ daily by saying your debt was not paid in full and he takes he salvation back and forth all the time. Well to me that is a sad state!

God knows everything you will ever do. from birth to death. To say God is going to give you something he calls a gift. knowing he owuld have to take it back and forth many times over your lifetime is another issue, it mocks the omniscience and character of God. period!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,539
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Eternally-grateful is willfully blind. First of all the main disagreement with eternal security is torn apart in this 'letter' (there were no chapters originally it is referring constantly to the beginning). The main heresy is that we can sin & still be saved, which is what Calvinism teaches, hence they came up with eternal security. I recall Billy Graham saying that Johnny Cash who never overcame his bad drug habit (because he never knew the truth that it would land you in hell) was free in heaven. Whereas the bible plainly states that a 'drunkard' or a 'glutton' will not inherit the Kingdom of God, can we not safely include the drug addict ?
How about Greg Laurie talking about his mother. He was surprised & relieved to learn that she had made a confession of faith in Jesus & thought of herself as a christian. The surprise was because she had many different abusive men in her home, she was always intoxicated & neglectful. Yet he says, you see, you never can tell by the way a person lives what is in their heart. Again the bible declares the opposite, we can tell what is in your heart by exactly that, how you live. Eternal Security is a silly man made doctrine which was never heard of before John Calvin, a vile sinner to the end. This passage describes him completely since you say it speaks of false teachers being entangled in sin themselves.

To directly answer the comment, which is ridiculous, this scripture is continuing the thought of the beginning of the letter:
2Pe 1:2 May grace and peace be yours in full measure through your knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
2Pe 1:3 God's divine power has given us everything we need to live a truly religious life through our knowledge of the one who called us to share in his own glory and goodness.

2Pe 1:4 In this way he has given us the very great and precious gifts he promised, so that by means of these gifts you may escape from the destructive lust that is in the world, and may come to share the divine nature.
2Pe 1:5 For this very reason do your best to add goodness to your faith; to your goodness add knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add endurance; to your endurance add godliness;
2Pe 1:7 to your godliness add Christian affection; and to your Christian affection add love.
2Pe 1:8 These are the qualities you need, and if you have them in abundance, they will make you active and effective in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But if you do not have them, you are so shortsighted that you cannot see and have forgotten that you have been purified from your past sins.
2Pe 1:10 So then, my friends, try even harder to make God's call and his choice of you a permanent experience; if you do so, you will never abandon your faith.
2Pe 1:11 In this way you will be given the full right to enter the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
We do not escape sin by going to church !! We escape sin by an experiential knowledge of Jesus Christ. That is what the word epignósis means. It is the 'knowledge of our Lord', they made Him Lord & did not do what Peter advises in the beginning of the letter to constantly build & grow in the faith so they did what he is warning against - abandoned the faith, whiles still claiming to be a christian, like Johnny Cash.
What are you going to do with the man in 1 Cor 5? Paul writing with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit does not condemn a man in open fornication. He was shaming the church but Paul says only to put him out of the assembly and deliver his flesh to satan for destruction. His soul is preserved in the day of the Lord. I should think if it were possible for any to lose their salvation this guy would be the poster child for the cause. Nothing is said of his partner so perhaps she never made a claim of salvation. Still what did his father think of all this? Why one is overtaken is such horrific sin will remain a mystery but we can see it is possible to happen. Ours is to restore such a one if possible. Gal 6:1 Not a restoration of salvation but a restoration into discipleship unto the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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AgapeSpiritEyes

Guest
well, when Peter saw jesus walking on the water. He said Lord may I come to you and He said yes and Peter walked on the water. But, when he took his eyes off Jesus, he sank. Then cried Lord save me and Jesus lifted him up and they walked on the water back to the boat.

If we take our faith off the cross, we sank. It is the work of the cross that saves and sanctifies and justifies and nothing else. We look at the cross or we fall. It's that simple.
Very Good I cherish deeply the cross but may I add not only looking at the cross but carrying it our cross and following Jesus as He reveals to us His path for us to finish our race to the finish line of leaving this earth and entering to forever saved with Him..
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
What are you going to do with the man in 1 Cor 5? Paul writing with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit does not condemn a man in open fornication. He was shaming the church but Paul says only to put him out of the assembly and deliver his flesh to satan for destruction. His soul is preserved in the day of the Lord. I should think if it were possible for any to lose their salvation this guy would be the poster child for the cause. Nothing is said of his partner so perhaps she never made a claim of salvation. Still what did his father think of all this? Why one is overtaken is such horrific sin will remain a mystery but we can see it is possible to happen. Ours is to restore such a one if possible. Gal 6:1 Not a restoration of salvation but a restoration into discipleship unto the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
If the man in 1 Corinthians 5 was a believer, why was he referred to as 'wicked' in verse 13? "But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (1 Cor 5:13). I mean, the bible never characterise believers as 'wicked', but non-believers.

Also, the bible says that the eternal destiny of the 'wicked' is the furnace of fire...

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Matthew 13:49-50 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

And...

Psalms 5:4-5 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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If the man in 1 Corinthians 5 was a believer, why was he referred to as 'wicked' in verse 13? "But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (1 Cor 5:13). I mean, the bible never characterise believers as 'wicked', but non-believers.

Also, the bible says that the eternal destiny of the 'wicked' is the furnace of fire...

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Matthew 13:49-50 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

And...

Psalms 5:4-5 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
You apparently missed to context change in verse nine. Fornicators that are outside the church they already knew they were to company with. Why would they tolerate such activities in the body?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
You apparently missed to context change in verse nine. Fornicators that are outside the church they already knew they were to company with. Why would they tolerate such activities in the body?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
No, I didn't miss the context. Yes, they couldn't possibly avoid fornicators outside the church as the scripture says believers are in the world but not of the world, however they could take drastic measures by removing the corrupting influence in their midst. Secondly, just because someone attends church amongst believers doesn’t mean they too are saved. This was a lost man IN their midst. Lastly, verse 5 does not suggest that the man was a believer. Paul was simply hoping that by the excommunication he may be saved. Another proof that he was lost is that he was referred to as a wicked person as I stated earlier, and a fornicator and what does the bible say about fornicators?

Galatians 5:19-21
19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21. Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

You'd have to completely redefine the meaning of the above passage in order to prove that this fornicator would inherit the kingdom of God.

 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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No, I didn't miss the context. Yes, they couldn't possibly avoid fornicators outside the church as the scripture says believers are in the world but not of the world, however they could take drastic measures by removing the corrupting influence in their midst. Secondly, just because someone attends church amongst believers doesn’t mean they too are saved. This was a lost man IN their midst. Lastly, verse 5 does not suggest that the man was a believer. Paul was simply hoping that by the excommunication he may be saved. Another proof that he was lost is that he was referred to as a wicked person as I stated earlier, and a fornicator and what does the bible say about fornicators?

Galatians 5:19-21
19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21. Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

You'd have to completely redefine the meaning of the above passage in order to prove that this fornicator would inherit the kingdom of God.

Well you can go on advising God on how He should judge but I don't see Paul exercising that authority. The text says what it says. Destruction of the flesh that the spirit might be saved. Since the Holy Spirit was writing through Paul I'll submit to that authority.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
A

Avalonjunky

Guest
ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED...THAT'S A CROCK
The Bible tells us this.. it's is truly possible to loose our salvation. We must live for Jesus not live to fight him.
 
B

bomba

Guest
I love God with all my heart, and I have great faith, and belief in him. Except somtimes I feel like in a sense he's walking beside me on my road in life. Although sometimes I feel like I may stumble, and ask him to put his arms around me to keep me from falling. Or like I fall behind, and I ask him to take a hold of my hand to bring me right back to his side. I think it's in these times that I feel like this, that it's because I am having test, and trials in my life, which causes these feelings. Although the greatest thing of all is knowing that he will never let me down, and will always love me, even at my weakest moments. This is why I have great faith, belief, and love for him, and always will! God! Bless! You! All! It feels good to be able to share the greatness of of God's love!
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
Well you can go on advising God on how He should judge but I don't see Paul exercising that authority. The text says what it says. Destruction of the flesh that the spirit might be saved. Since the Holy Spirit was writing through Paul I'll submit to that authority.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I hope you also submit to the Spirit's inspired word in Galatians 5:19-26. God's word does not contradict itself, the scripture is clear that no unrighteous person will inherit the kingdom of God. God is Light and in Him is no darkness thus one cannot walk in darkness (with Satan) and light (with God) simultaneously, God liberates one from the power of darkness. Destruction of the flesh in verse 5 is not literal, but figurative for excommunicating the wayward man from their midst so that he might repent and be saved when the Lord returns. He was not saved that very moment in his sins for the bible does not teach salvation IN sin.

The blood of Christ is not ineffectual that it only impacts man's spirit while the flesh is left enslaved by sin. God's salvation wroughts total transformation and His grace gives us power to overcome temptation.


Apostle John refuted this Gnostic heresy that seems prevalent today...
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Manifest:
phaneros
fan-er-os'
From G5316 ; {shining} that {is} apparent (literally or figuratively); neuter (as adverb) {publicly} externally: - {abroad} + {appear} {known} {manifest} open [+ {-ly]} outward ([+ -ly]).


 
F

francina

Guest
I hope you also submit to the Spirit's inspired word in Galatians 5:19-26. God's word does not contradict itself, the scripture is clear that no unrighteous person will inherit the kingdom of God. God is Light and in Him is no darkness thus one cannot walk in darkness (with Satan) and light (with God) simultaneously, God liberates one from the power of darkness. Destruction of the flesh in verse 5 is not literal, but figurative for excommunicating the wayward man from their midst so that he might repent and be saved when the Lord returns. He was not saved that very moment in his sins for the bible does not teach salvation IN sin.






The blood of Christ is not ineffectual that it only impacts man's spirit while the flesh is left enslaved by sin. God's salvation wroughts total transformation and His grace gives us power to overcome temptation.


Apostle John refuted this Gnostic heresy that seems prevalent today...
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Manifest:
phaneros
fan-er-os'
From G5316 ; {shining} that {is} apparent (literally or figuratively); neuter (as adverb) {publicly} externally: - {abroad} + {appear} {known} {manifest} open [+ {-ly]} outward ([+ -ly]).


He probably was a part of the body of Christ. In his state he was as the Prodigal son is described, dead & lost. In James 5 it states:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]My friends, if any of you wander away from the truth and another one brings you back again, [SUP]20 [/SUP]remember this: whoever turns a sinner back from the wrong way will save that sinner's soul from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.
Therefore, there is no such thing as once saved always saved.

spirit MIGHT BE saved -
Might is defined as to express doubt or a lower possibility.
(verb)An example of might is to say that you may or may not go to the zoo tomorrow.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,539
113
I hope you also submit to the Spirit's inspired word in Galatians 5:19-26. God's word does not contradict itself, the scripture is clear that no unrighteous person will inherit the kingdom of God. God is Light and in Him is no darkness thus one cannot walk in darkness (with Satan) and light (with God) simultaneously, God liberates one from the power of darkness. Destruction of the flesh in verse 5 is not literal, but figurative for excommunicating the wayward man from their midst so that he might repent and be saved when the Lord returns. He was not saved that very moment in his sins for the bible does not teach salvation IN sin.

The blood of Christ is not ineffectual that it only impacts man's spirit while the flesh is left enslaved by sin. God's salvation wroughts total transformation and His grace gives us power to overcome temptation.


Apostle John refuted this Gnostic heresy that seems prevalent today...
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Manifest:
phaneros
fan-er-os'
From G5316 ; {shining} that {is} apparent (literally or figuratively); neuter (as adverb) {publicly} externally: - {abroad} + {appear} {known} {manifest} open [+ {-ly]} outward ([+ -ly]).


God imputes the righteousness of Christ to those who believe in Him. 2 Cor 5:21 As an evidence of the new creature we have a new nature.2 Cor 5:17 We now are righteous and we are able as a son to love our heavenly Father. Which is a better position to be in? Under bondage to the law and it's curse of death or to receive the inheritance of a son which is eternal life? One is deserved the other is a gift which cannot be earned. It is just plain silly to think that God changed me into a son only to un-change me if I don't conduct myself pleasing to some other man. I did not possess the authority to change me into a saint I certainly do not have the authority to change myself back to an unrepentant sinner. I have been saved to the uttermost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
He probably was a part of the body of Christ. In his state he was as the Prodigal son is described, dead & lost. In James 5 it states:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]My friends, if any of you wander away from the truth and another one brings you back again, [SUP]20 [/SUP]remember this: whoever turns a sinner back from the wrong way will save that sinner's soul from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.
Therefore, there is no such thing as once saved always saved.

spirit MIGHT BE saved -
Might is defined as to express doubt or a lower possibility.
(verb)An example of might is to say that you may or may not go to the zoo tomorrow.
Thank you for your insight.

The problem is that many have a wrong notion of God's salvation. They think that God just throws a boat and leaves one drowning in the sea of sin (basically saved from sin while still enslaved by it). No, that is not how God's grace works; His grace does not ignore carnality but enable man to overcome. The loving Father pulls you out the sea of sin, cleanses you and clothes you with His righteousness that you become a new creature (1 Cor. 5:17), and all He requests is that we willingly abide in Him and we'll be preserved in His arms. However, this does not mean temptations and trials of faith won't arise and there isn't a possibility of falling away. Whenever one falls away, their spiritual life is in jeopardy and restoration will need to occur just like King David and the prodigal son. Anyone who teaches that a believer can turn away from God and not jeopardise their spiritual life is a false teacher because that is contrary to the scripture. That is licentiousness which the Apostles vehemently spoke against.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
God imputes the righteousness of Christ to those who believe in Him. 2 Cor 5:21 As an evidence of the new creature we have a new nature.2 Cor 5:17 We now are righteous and we are able as a son to love our heavenly Father. Which is a better position to be in? Under bondage to the law and it's curse of death or to receive the inheritance of a son which is eternal life? One is deserved the other is a gift which cannot be earned. It is just plain silly to think that God changed me into a son only to un-change me if I don't conduct myself pleasing to some other man. I did not possess the authority to change me into a saint I certainly do not have the authority to change myself back to an unrepentant sinner. I have been saved to the uttermost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
It's not about God "un-changing" someone but rather about them wallowing in the mud again. If you were washed and cleansed from sin and then you return to sin, will you remain clean? No.

I did not possess the authority to change me into a saint I certainly do not have the authority to change myself back to an unrepentant sinner. I have been saved to the uttermost.

So one can be in a justified state whilst in an unrepentant state?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
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It's not about God "un-changing" someone but rather about them wallowing in the mud again. If you were washed and cleansed from sin and then you return to sin, will you remain clean? No.


Interesting thought.

Before God cleans us we are dirty. A little extra dirt on the already dirty things doesn't seem so bad.

When God cleans us we are really clean. Even a little dirt seems really disgusting compared to the cleanliness of the rest.

So when God changes us that is what it is like. There is nothing to go back to because back there is disgusting...

It wasn't before. It was "normal". "Everyone" is doing it... there's probably a thousand other ways we justify it. Like "don't judge" lol...