Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?
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A
1Corinthians 3
For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
B
ONLY JESUS SAVES and that by ONLY BY GODS OWN BLOOD can we all agree upon that?
[h=1]1 John 5:3-4[/h][FONT="] For this demonstrates our love for God: We keep his commandments, and his commandments are not difficult, because everyone who is born from God has overcome the world. Our faith is the victory that overcomes the world.[/FONT]
[h=1]1 John 5:3-4[/h][FONT="] For this demonstrates our love for God: We keep his commandments, and his commandments are not difficult, because everyone who is born from God has overcome the world. Our faith is the victory that overcomes the world.[/FONT]
My foundation is on the Love of Christ, it is my heart, soul and spirit.
In the whole of scripture is there a better expression of Gods love than the cross.
A union of holiness, purity, righteousness and justice with love and openness and
forgiveness.
But we are redeemed to walk in purity and righteousness, without which the gospel
is irrelevant. If there is no walk or being like Christ we are still damned.
And the confusion is about the heart of everyone, only with an open heart can
we begin to know the power of God in our lives. Now those who oppose love
do not speak of an open heart, of emotions transformed of being rocked in tears
and wonder at Christ and His love for us. This is the language of eternity and the
Kingdom.
The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my sheep."
John 21:17
Do you love Jesus?
In the whole of scripture is there a better expression of Gods love than the cross.
A union of holiness, purity, righteousness and justice with love and openness and
forgiveness.
But we are redeemed to walk in purity and righteousness, without which the gospel
is irrelevant. If there is no walk or being like Christ we are still damned.
And the confusion is about the heart of everyone, only with an open heart can
we begin to know the power of God in our lives. Now those who oppose love
do not speak of an open heart, of emotions transformed of being rocked in tears
and wonder at Christ and His love for us. This is the language of eternity and the
Kingdom.
The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my sheep."
John 21:17
Do you love Jesus?
A
I am curious - I have been and am still trying to decipher the differences in views here (and of course then what is biblical).
I agree with the statements made above by EG, but I was also struck by an earlier line by FranC - "I wish works wasn't a dirty word." - I think I know what she means - it seems that whenever (I know it isn't always!
)someone talks about works on CC they are accused of being legalistic, etc.
EG says above that "genuine faith will produce good works" - I agree with this completely - but I think it is not "automatic".
Here is what I mean: True Biblical faith will produce good works to some degree - maybe twenty-fold, or fifty-fold, or one-hundred fold. But to say that if a person is saved that then they will automatically do and keep doing good deeds just isn't so. Paul often spends half of his epistles in practical teaching on how to live. We need instruction and knowledge on how to live.
I agree with the statements made above by EG, but I was also struck by an earlier line by FranC - "I wish works wasn't a dirty word." - I think I know what she means - it seems that whenever (I know it isn't always!
)someone talks about works on CC they are accused of being legalistic, etc. EG says above that "genuine faith will produce good works" - I agree with this completely - but I think it is not "automatic".
Here is what I mean: True Biblical faith will produce good works to some degree - maybe twenty-fold, or fifty-fold, or one-hundred fold. But to say that if a person is saved that then they will automatically do and keep doing good deeds just isn't so. Paul often spends half of his epistles in practical teaching on how to live. We need instruction and knowledge on how to live.
2 Peter 1
But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
A
How? Why? Where did those question relate to anything he said?
You trying to entice him to the whole-rock-on the floor, I am a victim mentality?
That was a decent post....not relevant to the thread, but decent.
I guess you could vaguely tie it in to how Peter's love of Jesus has him feeding His sheep.
You trying to entice him to the whole-rock-on the floor, I am a victim mentality?
That was a decent post....not relevant to the thread, but decent.
I guess you could vaguely tie it in to how Peter's love of Jesus has him feeding His sheep.
O make no mistake about it....They will say that OSAS is false and that we can lose our salvation and are not saved because we believe that, but they themselves have NEVER LOST IT because they are as HOLY and RIGHTEOUS as they come, always serving GOD and doing every work under the sun.....the fallacy of their argument.....OSAS can lose it, but the workers for...never lose it....ever!
Hebrews 12:14 has been so grossly mis-interpreted that it is astounding. If we keep saying the same wrong interpretations - it still doesn't make them right - it just means we have been religiously brain-washed from the actual truth.
We need to take scripture in context or that text will con you. Take Hebrews 12:14 as an excellent example. Taken isolated - we dream up all sorts of man-made traditions. But it context with "other" scriptures around it - it becomes evident what is being spoken about here.
Hebrews 12:12-15 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
The context of this verse, Hebrews 12:13 instructs us to not walk in a manner that will cause others to stumble. Therefore, I believe this verse isn’t talking about us seeing God but rather that if we don’t act in a holy manner, no one will see God in our lives. ( we are a living epistle )
That would certainly be a true statement that is not only consistent with Hebrews 12:14 but leads perfectly into Hebrews 12:15.
Our actions don’t earn the grace of God. That wouldn’t be grace (Romans 11:6). Therefore, we don’t fall from grace by not being holy enough to earn it.
Galatians 5:4 speaks of falling from grace by putting faith in our works instead of having our faith firmly placed in Christ and what He did for us. So, the way people “fail of the grace of God” is through legalism.
Hebrews 12:15 - Notice that bitterness in our lives doesn’t just hurt or poison us but many people. Again the context of this verse shows that we are supposed to walk in a manner that influences others in a positive way. If we get bitter, that bitterness will affect others.
Works-based salvationsists have used this verse to beat people with for years as we know we are sanctified forever in our inner man now and we do need to work out what is already in us in Christ in our outward behavior.
This has nothing to do with " becoming un-born " and not seeing the Lord ourselves and thus losing the free gift He gave us in Christ's finished work.
A
Have you ever considered that the world has taught people fear, so that it's hard to see how much God truly love them?
Ever think compassion, instead of attack and violence?
Who are you really defending?
God doesn't need defense.
His sheep can tell lies from truth...so if you simply state the truth, they will be drawn by that light because they recognize it is from God.
Who are you REALLY defending?
Are you SURE it's the faith, and not your own pride?
Ever think compassion, instead of attack and violence?
Who are you really defending?
God doesn't need defense.
His sheep can tell lies from truth...so if you simply state the truth, they will be drawn by that light because they recognize it is from God.
Who are you REALLY defending?
Are you SURE it's the faith, and not your own pride?
Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. Luke 15:1-7
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. Luke 15:1-7
This is a good question. Do you know what confession and repentance is?
Do you know the difference between ambition and delivery?
Peter had ambition, but needed to know what it meant, deep in his heart before it could
become real.
A sin does not recrucify Christ, but walking away in rebellion from Christ by loosing your faith
does.
My son as a youngster loved talking and doing things. We offered him a lot of money to not
break the rules for 5 hours. He honestly thought about it, and refused the offer because he
knew he could not deliver. Now he could, easily.
Christ measures our direction of walk, not how far along we are. Our faith is counted as our
relationship or righteousness, our walk is reflecting the righteousness we have been given.
If we walk too many times away from what we are in Christ our faith breaks and we loose
fellowship with the Lord and die again. Whether we ever will recover, I do not know.
Scripture warns we can be so damaged only judgement awaits us.
Do you know the difference between ambition and delivery?
Peter had ambition, but needed to know what it meant, deep in his heart before it could
become real.
A sin does not recrucify Christ, but walking away in rebellion from Christ by loosing your faith
does.
My son as a youngster loved talking and doing things. We offered him a lot of money to not
break the rules for 5 hours. He honestly thought about it, and refused the offer because he
knew he could not deliver. Now he could, easily.
Christ measures our direction of walk, not how far along we are. Our faith is counted as our
relationship or righteousness, our walk is reflecting the righteousness we have been given.
If we walk too many times away from what we are in Christ our faith breaks and we loose
fellowship with the Lord and die again. Whether we ever will recover, I do not know.
Scripture warns we can be so damaged only judgement awaits us.