Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

[MadebyHim]

And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: Luke 15:17-22

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree with your OSAS but faith without works is dead. They cannot be separated.

Our faithful Creator by believing, exercising His faith said; let there be light and there was. It worked.

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Then you might run into those who say; God does not have faith or needed it.

Will their unbelief (no faith) make the faith of God without effect as the work of God , who does the work of effecting? Paul said God forbid.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the "faith of God" without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Rom 3:3

Amen....true faith that comes from God inside of us will produce fruit of some sort in the believer. There will always be a corresponding action from that faith. It happens first when we hear the message of Christ and believe and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We could do all the good works in the world and that doesn't save us - it will help others out. Salvation as in being with the Lord joined as one spirit is the root of God's works being done in and through us. Works do not create salvation. True salvation is a fruit of the new creation in Christ being manifested out. This fruit grows as our minds become renewed to the truths of the gospel.

 

[MadebyHim]

Once we become one in Christ, He will not let us wonder so far that He can't bring us back in.

 

[Ariel82]

Our faith is a gift from God Peter.

What do you have your faith in that it can be broken?

Many people place their Faith in false things, like their works to save them, or false doctrines.

If you faith is not in the fact that Christ death on the cross for the remission of your sins is ENOUGH. Then you have placed your faith in a different foundation than Christ.

If your faith is on walking righteously to be saved, then yes you can lose that faith for its a false faith.

Faith in Christ can never be lost or broken, because it is faith in a Savior that can save completely His people.

 

[Grace777x70]

Personally I think the whole discussion on once saved always saved and people that lose salvation is something that is never talked about in the New Testament scriptures.

The scriptures and the Lord Jesus always talked about "life". God's quality of life. Sin is anything that is not participating in of the quality of God's life - coming short of the glory which is goodness of God.

We can "not be in faith" in any aspect of the Lord's finished work. Like peace - we can not be experiencing peace in a situation even though Jesus said He leaves us His peace. We don't believe we have this peace because the circumstance is screaming at us something totally different.

Therefor we are not partaking of His life that is available to us. His peace which is supposed to bring us life is not being manifested in us.

We are not experiencing the salvation of that peace in our lives. Salvation means to be rescued, to keep safe, to preserve. There is no talk in the NT about losing one's salvation nor of a once saved always saved talking. They always talk about "life" and the believing of Christ and what he has done brings us His life which means that His life brings us salvation in every area - if we believe.

He that has the Son has eternal life but it is with faith and patience that we inherit the promises that come with this "life" that is in Him only.

This is why falling from grace nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives - we are depending on ourselves which is what all works-based mindsets are doing.

This is why we need to preach the love and grace of God shown in Christ's finished work so that we can grow in grace and knowledge of Him and experience this salvation and life that is ours in Christ while we are on this earth.

 

[Ariel82]

Not sure what your saying Grace. God can give peace even when the world falls apart around us.

 

[garee]

This is a good question. Do you know what confession and repentance is?

Do you know the difference between ambition and delivery?

Ambition of God as God turns us towards Him, or self-ambition, self-pride and we turn our own selves ? Repentance is a work of God that He works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. If He does not first turn us no man could repent.

We love Him because He first loves us every time.He is kind and tender hearted to those who know they do not deserve His mercy and grace.

Jer 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

Lamentations 5:21 Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

 

[PeterJens]

Our faith is a gift from God Peter.
What do you have your faith in that it can be broken?
Many people place their Faith in false things, like their works to save them, or false doctrines.
If you faith is not in the fact that Christ death on the cross for the remission of your sins is ENOUGH. Then you have placed your faith in a different foundation than Christ.
If your faith is on walking righteously to be saved, then yes you can lose that faith for its a false faith.
Faith in Christ can never be lost or broken, because it is faith in a Savior that can save completely His people.

I suspected what your position actually was.

In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3

So many people lie, it shocks me, and the judgments brought against others,
shocking.

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
Phil 2:12

If you do not know what an open heart is, I can say no more, it is
pointless.

So much "religion" or security in ideas and not seeing Christ dying in
torture and agony in front of you, if you see this, into eternity you
know God. Everything springs from this reality.

But because Ariel you asked what you have, you do not know this
reality for yourself. So there I have to leave it.

God bless, Peter.

 

[phil36]

I think we get confused over the terms we use. The descriptions we give things are still valid though. If you look at a great example - the 'Trinity' A descriptive term we use to describe a biblical truth.

One saved always saved is one of those descriptors we use to describe a biblical truth. Regarding losing ones salvation, I believe we do not see that in scripture. It is the opposite of what scripture teaches, in that we have eternal life in Christ, and it he who will see us to the end.

We have to let scripture speak and not second guess based on our emotions regarding humans.

Scripture provides ample evidence. Paul gives us great evidence of his assurance.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 38-39)

And that comes right after the golden chain Romans 8:29-20.

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yah no problem I still not sure y'all get what I'm saying. But I just believe it does matter how we live after salvation.

we believe the same, We do not believe the old strawman that one can believe and say a prayer and live however they want and be saved.

But I guess y'all say if salvation really occurred then everyone lives to try and follow God's words. But this still don't explain Christians that fall away or change religion.

John 2 does.. They were never of us,, That is good enough for me..

Peter I believe also answered, A god returns to his vomit.. because they are still dogs.

They was once all joyful fir God but somewhere in life changed. How is that being saved if they was to never have faith in God again.

They never were planted. If they were planted, they never would have left. You assume they were once all joyfull with God, Maybe it was just blessing by association with Gods people.. But since there was no root, the joy did not last long.. I stopped trying to figure out what was in peoples hearts along time ago.

 

[Grace777x70]

Not sure what your saying Grace. God can give peace even when the world falls apart around us.

Yes He certainly can and He does all the time without fail. But what if you don't believe it? What if we believe the situation instead of the peace of God? It's not a matter of what He does or has done . It's a matter of believing it and experiencing His life on this earth.

My point is - if we don't experience His peace - we don't go to hell for it. Salvation after we come to Christ is about experiencing His life o this earth - not about going to hell or heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think your coming around to using the work word. Be careful it may get you stoned

lol, thanks for the warning..


work is not a bad word,
where work is placed in the salvation process is..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All scripture is word of God and to be taken together fluently. No should deny James or Paul but see they are speaking together otherwise your saying our bible has contradictions

Yes, James and paul say the same thing, But to two different audiences..

Context is crucial.. We can not just rip a verse out of the scripture and make a doctrine, especially when it has eternal consequences.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When i read Bible its as if its speaking to me, and i don't think He'd tell one person one thing and the next person another thing. The Word is His love letter in my eyes. You can see it how you choose.

The bible has many places it speaks to certain people

In matt 24,Jesus is speaking of great tribulation, Which will be so great that if he did not return no flesh would survive, His warning is to those living at that time, Endure, do not give up hope. if you endure till the end, I will return and spare your physical life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People who don't understand and believe that once God has saved you, He will NEVER let you go....are saying "God can't love me that much...I better make sure I am more loveable."

some people do not believe that. and have made it clear. one can lose salvation if they do not do certain things,

When people confront them, it is not an attack, it is questioning them so they can understand them, If they continue to say that, then the confrontation because a warning.. should we not warn those who are basing their faith on human ability not the cross?

Not to be argumentative, Just wanted to share my view..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would tell them:

yes, God loves you that much. Agape love is divine love. I would that all not only experience it but understand and pour it like living waters into the lives around us.

then what to you say after all that, that that is not enough, You have to be holy and righteous, or it means nothing, you will not make it to heaven?

 

[Grace777x70]

I am in agreement with those that saying Once Saved Always Saved can lead others that have NOT heard the real gospel to be deceived by sin in the flesh that it's ok to do whatever we want now. Jesus came to save us from sins not to sin.

Actually if no one says "What? are you saying it's ok to sin all we want now because of the grace of God?" when we preach the true gospel - we have not preached the gospel that Paul preached. The very nature of the good news lends itself to be mis-understood but that doesn't mean we should water down the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work.

I personally believe this doctrine of losing one's salvation has done more harm to the body of Christ other than the perversion of the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ. It creates a false gospel of works-based mindsets which try to dominate people's hearts by fear and intimidation. It is the complete opposite of the life of God being expressed.

I have a medical background and I have heard from a few psychiatrists that a lot of people with mental issues and in the asylums are Christians that have this fear that they been forsaken by God and have blasphemed God or the Holy Spirit and now are doomed. This belief comes from this false doctrine of losing salvation as in being with the Lord when we die.

Yes there are many warnings about not living in faith of what Christ has done for us and we can get distracted from the simplicity that is in Christ. What happens is people are equating not being in faith in an area to mean that those in Christ are going to hell now. That is very serious error IMO.

Jesus and the apostles all talked about "life" in Christ. We get to participate in His quality of life while on this earth.

So, yes..let's preach and teach the love and grace of God in Christ so that we can grow up in Him and not be ship-wrecked in this life and not participate in God's quality of life that He came to give us.

 

[PeterJens]

Scripture provides ample evidence. Paul gives us great evidence of his assurance.

I think Paul did believe in the elect being secure.
Handing believers over to satan seems to go along with this belief.

Jesus being faithful, a friend, our Lord is aimed for people being tortured,
in prison, deprived of human contact, and pushed to the limit of surviving.

So the whole desire to push OSAS is wrong. It has ended in people doing
unbelievably bad things while depressed believing themselves to be saved
no matter what. Others use it as a sign of salvation itself like open warfare.

The elect are saved from one side of eternity to the other, but it is not our
job to identify them, just to walk and live in Jesus's love. If people live in sin
they are to be confronted and ejected if without repentance, so the witness of
the body reflects the life of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You know this is fallen when righteousness and being a light is not the bodies
primary focus.

 

[PeterJens]

I personally believe this doctrine of losing one's salvation has done more harm to the body of Christ other than the perversion of the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ. It creates a false gospel of works-based mindsets which try to dominate people's hearts by fear and intimidation. It is the complete opposite of the life of God being expressed.

So here is the truth. The real evil is not believing you are saved no matter what.

Sin and righteousness are not the issues or ministry of the Church, it is legalism.

No more needs to be said. I can really see this is the issue when preaching in
India, Saudi, China.

Now legalism is a problem in RCC countries, but still sin and righteousness are
the key message.

 

[PeterJens]

You have to be holy and righteous

Here is the double lie. You are holy and righteous, washed clean, purified and
healed.

So many are so lost in religion, they live in unbelief when God declares them whole
they insist they are still lost sinners, because Christ has not done enough.

It is ironic, Christ died on the cross, the creator of the universe, washes our sins
away, but this was not enough, it is still a mess. Maybe the fact was this is
what their life was and is, even though they claim to know Christ.

The fact scripture declares a different experience does not make them question
how they have experienced God, they just assume scripture is wrong.