Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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Allen from Grace I think just hat it means
A person who has grace in their hands, or they are riding on grace on the way to finding Christ to be saved. And returns to the law has fallen from that grace which could have saved them.
They did not fall from salvation. Their faith had always been in the law. Which is why they returned. They tried the christian thing out. Decided they trusted in the law more. And returned to it.
A person who has grace in their hands, or they are riding on grace on the way to finding Christ to be saved. And returns to the law has fallen from that grace which could have saved them.
They did not fall from salvation. Their faith had always been in the law. Which is why they returned. They tried the christian thing out. Decided they trusted in the law more. And returned to it.
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I was thinking that faith without works was only dead to men but I think I’m starting to understand what better why faith without works Is also dead to GOD and why salvation Involves GOD AND man.
I am confused by this thinking
What can man do that would cause God to forgive one sin, et alone the many sins we have are and will commit?
So let me ask why is it just "The OSAS interpretation" thats wrong? Can not your "interpretation" be wrong? From the start you said "interpretation". One would think that door swings both ways.. maybe not. Not the best footing here. Hmm who would put those thoughts in my head? Not God.. and says what He gives He never takes back.. yet something NEW as in spirit, new man, new creation wow we don't have to be a god to give back, not want something only a GOD created. Can't see it yet.. just simple words or not doing some works and voided out.
I can see why mindreader said that GOD and man are Involved In the salvation process If you believe that faith alone without doing any works Is dead to GOD then you would have to be In agreement that work Is needed In the salvation process but now you are saying that man Is not Involved In the salvation process.I'm confused.Some say that confession Is a spiritual work so then that's why faith Without works Is dead to GOD although I thought confession was the same as repentance.
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I can not be in agreement, Because I would have to admit that we are saved BY WORKS, and not by faith. I would have to believe that I am saved initially in the spirit (faith) but I must perfect that salvation in the flesh (by works) and according to paul. I would be a fool.
Abraham was saved the moment he believed in God. At that Moment, He was given the righteousness of Christ. He was adopted as Gods son. He was given eternal life. And his eternal destination was set in stone.
After this event, Abraham lived, He committed many sins, Many sins which are prety severe (He committed adultry with his maid, He lied about his wife calling her his sister due to lack of faith, He laughed at God.) But he also did many works, Like offering his son to God in faith that God could rise him from the dead. Because he believed in Gods promise. That through THIS child would become a great nation.
David too was called a man after Gods own Heart. Somewhere as a child he too believed God and was accounted as righteous. We too see his sin (the worse being adultry, some could say rape and murder) yet we also see his many great works.
Niether one of these men were saved by works, They did not cooperate or help God save them by their works. They were saved by their faith.
Their faith, Being living, not only saved them, But caused them to do these works. But they were not perfect men, They commited sins that I sadly would say if anyone in todays church saw men today do what these men did they would claim they could not be saved, or at the least lost their salvation because of their sins.
Confession, repentance faith is not a work. Because you can not BOAST of those things.
Its like this. You are drowning because you fell off a ship during a storm. You have no hope of saving yourself. You will die if you are not rescued (the word saved in scripture comes from the greek soso, which means to be rescued). Now a rescue swim=mre is sent to try to rescue or save you. You can not help them, you MUST sit still and ALLOW him to rescue you. Otherwise you put both of your lives in danger.
So in the end, The person sent to rescue you succeeds, He brings you back to the ship and they take you back to dry land.
While you began to try to save yourself. You repented and decided your unable. Your in a hopeless situation. When hope is sent your way, You decide to trust this person. Because you know they are trustworthy, And you allow him to rescue you. When you get to land. Your not going to BOAST of saving yourself. Your going to BOAST in the person who was trained to save your life who did what they were sent to do. You did not work to save yourself because you repented and went against nature to save yourself and allowed a stranger to save you. He saved you
Much the same. The tax collector. He repented and was so broken he got on his knees unable to even look up and begged God to have mercy on him. And jesus said he went home saved.
He could not boast of saving himself by his works. His repentance and faith was in someone who showed themself to him, who drew him to God, as he became poor in spirit (spiritually bankrupt) and and because of That God showed him mercy and grace and he entered the kingdom of God.
He was justified God said, He was saved, He was secure in christ Because Christ saved him.
The only way we can not be secure in christ is if we think we have to do something. In this case, Our hope is in our works, and our ability to stop sin, Do works, or whatever we think we must do. In order to maintain salvation. Our faith is not in God, it is in self.
Abraham was saved the moment he believed in God. At that Moment, He was given the righteousness of Christ. He was adopted as Gods son. He was given eternal life. And his eternal destination was set in stone.
After this event, Abraham lived, He committed many sins, Many sins which are prety severe (He committed adultry with his maid, He lied about his wife calling her his sister due to lack of faith, He laughed at God.) But he also did many works, Like offering his son to God in faith that God could rise him from the dead. Because he believed in Gods promise. That through THIS child would become a great nation.
David too was called a man after Gods own Heart. Somewhere as a child he too believed God and was accounted as righteous. We too see his sin (the worse being adultry, some could say rape and murder) yet we also see his many great works.
Niether one of these men were saved by works, They did not cooperate or help God save them by their works. They were saved by their faith.
Their faith, Being living, not only saved them, But caused them to do these works. But they were not perfect men, They commited sins that I sadly would say if anyone in todays church saw men today do what these men did they would claim they could not be saved, or at the least lost their salvation because of their sins.
Confession, repentance faith is not a work. Because you can not BOAST of those things.
Its like this. You are drowning because you fell off a ship during a storm. You have no hope of saving yourself. You will die if you are not rescued (the word saved in scripture comes from the greek soso, which means to be rescued). Now a rescue swim=mre is sent to try to rescue or save you. You can not help them, you MUST sit still and ALLOW him to rescue you. Otherwise you put both of your lives in danger.
So in the end, The person sent to rescue you succeeds, He brings you back to the ship and they take you back to dry land.
While you began to try to save yourself. You repented and decided your unable. Your in a hopeless situation. When hope is sent your way, You decide to trust this person. Because you know they are trustworthy, And you allow him to rescue you. When you get to land. Your not going to BOAST of saving yourself. Your going to BOAST in the person who was trained to save your life who did what they were sent to do. You did not work to save yourself because you repented and went against nature to save yourself and allowed a stranger to save you. He saved you
Much the same. The tax collector. He repented and was so broken he got on his knees unable to even look up and begged God to have mercy on him. And jesus said he went home saved.
He could not boast of saving himself by his works. His repentance and faith was in someone who showed themself to him, who drew him to God, as he became poor in spirit (spiritually bankrupt) and and because of That God showed him mercy and grace and he entered the kingdom of God.
He was justified God said, He was saved, He was secure in christ Because Christ saved him.
The only way we can not be secure in christ is if we think we have to do something. In this case, Our hope is in our works, and our ability to stop sin, Do works, or whatever we think we must do. In order to maintain salvation. Our faith is not in God, it is in self.
There are only about 5% of users in BDF that I agree with in respect to doctrine.
Where is our doctrine found?
Who is the author of our doctrine?
Who reveals and instructs us in that doctrine?
If any of the answers you think of come to mind with another's name other than God,then you are living by man made doctrine.
I am just an old fashioned believer that follows the Spirit,and allows him to teach me the doctrines of God.
OSAS
CALVINIST
ARMINIUSIST
HYPER GRACE
JESUS ONLY
LEGALISTS
DESPENSALIONIST
TRINITARIANS
ECT...ECT.
Where is the divide in the word for all these different interpretations and beliefs?
How do you study?
How sure are you of your weight in the balance?
Titus3:9 But avoid foolish debates,genealogies,quarrels,and disputes about the law,for they are unprofitable and worthless.
Where is our doctrine found?
Who is the author of our doctrine?
Who reveals and instructs us in that doctrine?
If any of the answers you think of come to mind with another's name other than God,then you are living by man made doctrine.
I am just an old fashioned believer that follows the Spirit,and allows him to teach me the doctrines of God.
OSAS
CALVINIST
ARMINIUSIST
HYPER GRACE
JESUS ONLY
LEGALISTS
DESPENSALIONIST
TRINITARIANS
ECT...ECT.
Where is the divide in the word for all these different interpretations and beliefs?
How do you study?
How sure are you of your weight in the balance?
Titus3:9 But avoid foolish debates,genealogies,quarrels,and disputes about the law,for they are unprofitable and worthless.
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God is PRECISE in His words
"Come oh blest of My Father for I was anhungered and ye gave Me meat, thirsty and ye gave Me drink etc" it was their deeds that brought them their reward. Their character is shown in that they were sheeps, not goats.
The question is what IS their inheritance?
Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.
"Come oh blest of My Father for I was anhungered and ye gave Me meat, thirsty and ye gave Me drink etc" it was their deeds that brought them their reward. Their character is shown in that they were sheeps, not goats.
The question is what IS their inheritance?
Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.
I am not saying what Spurgeon or what the dispensationalist say.
I'm saying what the scripture says, what it actually says not what your various commentators [who you quote] says it means.
First the scripture says the church does not figure in the last judgement, we have John says "passed from judgement to life" How CAN we be judged? Jesus was judged in our place aye and condemned and executed in our place.
No no our place in the last judgement Paul teaches is to judge the world, "God will bring us with when He comes to judge ..."
How will we judge the world?
Matthew 25 shows us
"Inasmuch as ye did it to one of the least of these My brethren ye did it to Me..."
Who are the church? the sheeps? or is it those whom He calls "these My brethren"?
The answer is as plain as the nose on your face
The problem started with Jerome who translated the ancient scripts into latin, see now the church had abandoned the doctrine concerning the 1, 000 year reign so he takes no cognition of the fact the the church had been raptured. You DO believe the resurrection is in stages don't you?
don't you believe that the resurrection is first Christ is raised, then those who are Christ's at His coming [already 2, 000 years apart] The resurrection comes first and then the judgement, not the other way around. John in Revelations shows that the resurrection is divided into the first resurrection "happy and holy is he who has part in the first resurrect for the 2nd death can have no power over them"
Then we have the 1, 000 years. Then we have the second and general resurrection unto judgement. And according to John they are judged according to their deeds.
Paul teaches exactly the same doctrine in 1. Corinthians . 15.
First Christ has been raised
Then they who are in Christ at His coming
Then comes the end
for He must first reign until all His enemies are put under His feet.
Jerome takes no cognition of all this so when he sees "The King will come on that day and all His holy ones with Him" he translates holy ones as holy angels, the word is sacredos, it can mean either holy angels or it can mean saints. I say it is saints in line with Paul.
It is the saints who the King refers to "as these My brethren"
I'm saying what the scripture says, what it actually says not what your various commentators [who you quote] says it means.
First the scripture says the church does not figure in the last judgement, we have John says "passed from judgement to life" How CAN we be judged? Jesus was judged in our place aye and condemned and executed in our place.
No no our place in the last judgement Paul teaches is to judge the world, "God will bring us with when He comes to judge ..."
How will we judge the world?
Matthew 25 shows us
"Inasmuch as ye did it to one of the least of these My brethren ye did it to Me..."
Who are the church? the sheeps? or is it those whom He calls "these My brethren"?
The answer is as plain as the nose on your face
The problem started with Jerome who translated the ancient scripts into latin, see now the church had abandoned the doctrine concerning the 1, 000 year reign so he takes no cognition of the fact the the church had been raptured. You DO believe the resurrection is in stages don't you?
don't you believe that the resurrection is first Christ is raised, then those who are Christ's at His coming [already 2, 000 years apart] The resurrection comes first and then the judgement, not the other way around. John in Revelations shows that the resurrection is divided into the first resurrection "happy and holy is he who has part in the first resurrect for the 2nd death can have no power over them"
Then we have the 1, 000 years. Then we have the second and general resurrection unto judgement. And according to John they are judged according to their deeds.
Paul teaches exactly the same doctrine in 1. Corinthians . 15.
First Christ has been raised
Then they who are in Christ at His coming
Then comes the end
for He must first reign until all His enemies are put under His feet.
Jerome takes no cognition of all this so when he sees "The King will come on that day and all His holy ones with Him" he translates holy ones as holy angels, the word is sacredos, it can mean either holy angels or it can mean saints. I say it is saints in line with Paul.
It is the saints who the King refers to "as these My brethren"
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All this adds up to the saying of Isaiah "God will judge with equity"
That is with perfect fairness, if God [holy as He is] cannot overlook sin, neither can He overlook good deeds as Jesus said.
"if anyone gives so much as a cup of water to one of these little ones because they believe in Me, they shall not lose their reward"
That makes for a massively wider mercy than is generally taught in Evangelicalism.
All this adds up to the saying of Isaiah "God will judge with equity"
That is with perfect fairness, if God [holy as He is] cannot overlook sin, neither can He overlook good deeds as Jesus said.
"if anyone gives so much as a cup of water to one of these little ones because they believe in Me, they shall not lose their reward"
That makes for a massively wider mercy than is generally taught in Evangelicalism.
I am not liberal thank you, I am orthodox conservative. Incidentally I am far from the only one who believes in the wider mercy, even Billy Graham did, christians know in their guts that billions of human souls will not go to hell. But they can't seem to find the scriptures that support it. Nor have you been able to stand before the scriptures I have shown. And I do believe in the doctrine of eternal punishment and can preach it freely, the wicked will go to hell. But who they are is not mine to judge.
The answer is this
You can't take doctrines out of the bible with it not having a knock on effect upon all the other doctrines. In the 4th century the church [because it had made a dirty deal with Rome] abandoned the doctrine of the 1, 000 year reign and substituted Amillennialism in it's place. The nature of this doctrine is to squeeze out the resurrection of the just or the rapture and compound the rapture at His second coming with the last resurrection.
The answer is this
You can't take doctrines out of the bible with it not having a knock on effect upon all the other doctrines. In the 4th century the church [because it had made a dirty deal with Rome] abandoned the doctrine of the 1, 000 year reign and substituted Amillennialism in it's place. The nature of this doctrine is to squeeze out the resurrection of the just or the rapture and compound the rapture at His second coming with the last resurrection.