Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[eternally-gratefull]

God is PRECISE in His words

"Come oh blest of My Father for I was anhungered and ye gave Me meat, thirsty and ye gave Me drink etc" it was their deeds that brought them their reward. Their character is shown in that they were sheeps, not goats.

The question is what IS their inheritance?
Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.

Salvation is a gift not a reward.

 

[Evmur]

Salvation is a gift not a reward.

You have to answer the scripture as it stands. I don't believe anyone can do good deeds in order to be saved. But folks who do what the law requires who have not the law Paul teaches will either be accused or excused by their consciences on the day that God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to Paul's gospel.

 

[phil36]

There are only about 5% of users in BDF that I agree with in respect to doctrine.
Where is our doctrine found?
Who is the author of our doctrine?
Who reveals and instructs us in that doctrine?

If any of the answers you think of come to mind with another's name other than God,then you are living by man made doctrine.

I am just an old fashioned believer that follows the Spirit,and allows him to teach me the doctrines of God.

OSAS
CALVINIST
ARMINIUSIST
HYPER GRACE
JESUS ONLY
LEGALISTS
DESPENSALIONIST
TRINITARIANS
ECT...ECT.

Where is the divide in the word for all these different interpretations and beliefs?
How do you study?
How sure are you of your weight in the balance?


Titus3:9 But avoid foolish debates,genealogies,quarrels,and disputes about the law,for they are unprofitable and worthless.

Good question/s Gardenias.

Although private bible study is good, private interpretation can be a dangerous thing.

I think we all wish we could just all agree on everything, but what we usually mean by that is, I wish everyone would agree with me!


I have a question for you and this may help answer some of your questions. You say this:

""I am just an old fashioned believer that follows the Spirit,and allows him to teach me the doctrines of God.""

But you have already told us you only agree with about 5% of BDF users. I will ask you your own question here :""Where is the divide in the word for all these different interpretations and beliefs?"" where do you divide with 95% of BDF'ers?

So here is my question. What Doctrines of God has the Holy Spirit taught you that are correct over against the 95% you don't agree with?

How do you know in fact that you are correct?

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It's not an easy question to answer.. why so many different views.. yet at the same time all Christians should agree on the fundamentals. We also have to remember that the truth does indeed divide.

 

[phil36]

I am not liberal thank you, I am orthodox conservative. .

You can label yourself as you please.

But your liberal views tell a different story. There is only one way for salvation for all mankind! not two!

 

[Evmur]

You can label yourself as you please.

But your liberal views tell a different story. There is only one way for salvation for all mankind! not two!

Yes yes you like to label folks and put them into pigeon holes, makes you feel safe.

I have not labelled you.

 

[phil36]

Yes yes you like to label folks and put them into pigeon holes, makes you feel safe.

I have not labelled you.

Your views are liberal views Evmur. There is only one way for all mankind to be saved and that is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.. That is the truth of the gospel. There is no other way for anyone!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All


All this adds up to the saying of Isaiah "God will judge with equity"

That is with perfect fairness, if God [holy as He is] cannot overlook sin, neither can He overlook good deeds as Jesus said.

"if anyone gives so much as a cup of water to one of these little ones because they believe in Me, they shall not lose their reward"

That makes for a massively wider mercy than is generally taught in Evangelicalism.

there will be many who gave water who will not be in heaven.

Pau; makes this clear.

It is NOT by works of righteousness (like giving to the poor) which we have done. But by his mercy he saved us.

Again, Salvation is a gift. Not a reward

Rewards are earned by the sheep or Gods children who do works out of love.

Non believers can also do good deeds. However these deeds will not save or help save them. The Bible calls these works of self righteousness. Because they proceeded from self. Not from God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have to answer the scripture as it stands. I don't believe anyone can do good deeds in order to be saved. But folks who do what the law requires who have not the law Paul teaches will either be accused or excused by their consciences on the day that God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to Paul's gospel.

I think I have answered scripture as it stands.

The lost will be judged by their works at the great white throne. And cast out because they rejected christ

The saved will be judged for their works at the bema seat. And rewarded with gold silver precious stones wood hay or stubble (but even if his reward is burnt, he will still be saved even as though escaping the fire)

 

[Evmur]

Your views are liberal views Evmur. There is only one way for all mankind to be saved and that is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.. That is the truth of the gospel. There is no other way for anyone!

Through Christ. But faith is expressed by what we do, if somebody will receive a prophet because he is a prophet he shall receive a prophet's reward.

And Jesus spoke about folks who were ministering who did not follow Him saying "he who is not against us is for us"

Many hold the doctrines of righteousness with a firm grip but who do not do the doctrines of righteousness.

 

[Evmur]

there will be many who gave water who will not be in heaven.

Pau; makes this clear.

It is NOT by works of righteousness (like giving to the poor) which we have done. But by his mercy he saved us.

Again, Salvation is a gift. Not a reward

Rewards are earned by the sheep or Gods children who do works out of love.

Non believers can also do good deeds. However these deeds will not save or help save them. The Bible calls these works of self righteousness. Because they proceeded from self. Not from God

No they who do what the law requires who do not have the law are a law unto themselves they will be either accused or excused by their consciences on the day that God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to Paul's gospel.

 

[Evmur]

I think I have answered scripture as it stands.

The lost will be judged by their works at the great white throne. And cast out because they rejected christ

The saved will be judged for their works at the bema seat. And rewarded with gold silver precious stones wood hay or stubble (but even if his reward is burnt, he will still be saved even as though escaping the fire)

THAT'S what YOU read the scripture doesn't say that. The saints will already have been raised [so shall we ever be with the Lord] these others are judged as to whether or not their names are in the book of life according to their deeds.

It is preposterous for you to pre judge them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

THAT'S what YOU read the scripture doesn't say that. The saints will already have been raised [so shall we ever be with the Lord] these others are judged as to whether or not their names are in the book of life according to their deeds.

It is preposterous for you to pre judge them.

Um no.

This would make them earn their salvation by their deeds. That would put us under law, not under grace. And no one has made it.

No one at the great white throne judgment is saved, they ALL will suffer the second death.

Death and Hades it is said is delivered to christ. Not raised by Him

Death and hades is judged

Death and hades is cast into the lake of fire.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No they who do what the law requires who do not have the law are a law unto themselves they will be either accused or excused by their consciences on the day that God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to Paul's gospel.

The law requires perfection.

There is only one man who ever fulfilled that. And that is Christ

So ONLY christ will be seen righteous based on his own merit. The rest of us require grace.

 

[Evmur]

No they who do what the law requires who do not have the law are a law unto themselves they will be either accused or excused by their consciences on the day that God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to Paul's gospel.

When Paul speaks about those who do what the law requires who do not have the law he says that they show that the law is written upon their hearts .... Who do you suppose wrote it there?

No-one is suggesting anyone can be saved apart from Christ.

 

[Evmur]

Um no.

This would make them earn their salvation by their deeds. That would put us under law, not under grace. And no one has made it.

No one at the great white throne judgment is saved, they ALL will suffer the second death.

Death and Hades it is said is delivered to christ. Not raised by Him

Death and hades is judged

Death and hades is cast into the lake of fire.

The scripture doesn't say so, YOU say so.

The scripture affirms that WE have been by grace through faith ... everyone else will be judged according to their deeds, we are passed over from judgement, so ...

so how can we be the ones judged?

 

[phil36]

When Paul speaks about those who do what the law requires who do not have the law he says that they show that the law is written upon their hearts .... Who do you suppose wrote it there?

No-one is suggesting anyone can be saved apart from Christ.

Really?

When Jesus addresses the sheep He says " Come ye blest of My Father you did good deeds to me...." He said not a word about saved by grace. Nor did they have faith for they did not know what in the world He was on about, "when saw we Thee naked and anhungered? ... " they didn't have a clue about the indwelling Christ.

You have already said there are those who are saved not by faith or grace!!!

 

[Evmur]

Really?




You have already said there are those who are saved not by faith or grace!!!

No it is God who says that we the church are saved by grace through faith ... others will be judged. We are passed from judgement to life, so how can the sheep who are rewarded for their deeds be the church?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The scripture doesn't say so, YOU say so.

The scripture affirms that WE have been by grace through faith ... everyone else will be judged according to their deeds, we are passed over from judgement, so ...

so how can we be the ones judged?

For salvation that is correct.

They will be judged for their deeds, and found wanting and be lost forever

For rewards. WE will be judged at the bema seat (1 cor)

 

[Evmur]

I think I have answered scripture as it stands.

The lost will be judged by their works at the great white throne. And cast out because they rejected christ

The saved will be judged for their works at the bema seat. And rewarded with gold silver precious stones wood hay or stubble (but even if his reward is burnt, he will still be saved even as though escaping the fire)

There you go again pre judging the Great White Throne, it preposterous.

I agree we are judged at the Bema seat. We have already been raised in the resurrection of the just

But this resurrection is called the resurrection of THE QUICK and the dead, those whose names are written in the book of life and those whose names are not written in the book of life. Quick here means living.

It is preposterous for you to pre judge them.

 

[phil36]

No it is God who says that we the church are saved by grace through faith ... others will be judged. We are passed from judgement to life, so how can the sheep who are rewarded for their deeds be the church?

This question has already been answered.. #217. Remember when you said evangelicals have never answered your questions? but it turns out they actually have!!

---------------------------
"In the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, we are looking at man redeemed and saved, and man condemned and lost. A casual reading seems to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. The “sheep” acted charitably, giving food, drink, and clothing to the needy. The “goats” showed no charity. This seems to result in salvation for the sheep and damnation for the goats.

However, Scripture does not contradict itself, and the Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that salvation is by faith through the grace of God and not by our good works (see John 1:12; Acts 15:11; Romans 3:22-24; Romans 4:4-8; Romans 7:24-25; Romans 8:12; Galatians 3:6-9; and Ephesians 2:8-10). In fact, Jesus Himself makes it clear in the parable that the salvation of the “sheep” is not based on their works—their inheritance was theirs “since the creation of the world” (Matthew 25:34), long before they could ever do any good works!


The good works mentioned in the parable are not the cause of salvation but the effect of salvation. As Christians we become like Christ (see Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18; and Colossians 2:6-7). Galatians 5:22 tells us that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. Good works in a Christian’s life are the direct overflow of these traits, and are only acceptable to God because of the relationship that exists between servant and Master, the saved and their Savior, the sheep and their Shepherd (see Ephesians 2:10).

The core message of the Parable of the Sheep and Goats is that God’s people will love others. Good works will result from our relationship to the Shepherd. Followers of Christ will treat others with kindness, serving them as if they were serving Christ Himself. The unregenerate live in the opposite manner. While “goats” can indeed perform acts of kindness and charity, their hearts are not right with God, and their actions are not for the right purpose – to honor and worship God. -https://www.gotquestions.org/parable-sheep-goats.html "
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The view you hold is actually very sad, because you diminish the work of Christ.

When Jesus addresses the sheep He says " Come ye blest of My Father you did good deeds to me...." He said not a word about saved by grace. Nor did they have faith for they did not know what in the world He was on about, "when saw we Thee naked and anhungered? ... " they didn't have a clue about the indwelling Christ.

Hopefully now you will see that you are contradicting scriputure.