Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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James is contrasting “Real” faith in Christ vs an empty, dead profession. WE are made alive who were dead. This is what Ephesians speaks of;
Made Alive in Christ
2 And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [e]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead [f]in our transgressions, made us alive together [g]with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Made Alive in Christ
2 And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [e]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead [f]in our transgressions, made us alive together [g]with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
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No thanks, I don’t need to borrow your bib, but thanks for asking my friend.
So I’m still wondering about last night. I almost thought you were prophesying at first or you’re secretly my neighbor and saw something.
So I’m still wondering about last night. I almost thought you were prophesying at first or you’re secretly my neighbor and saw something.
Seen we are friends at the mo? ready to finally answer some questions i have?
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How.are Paul and James reconciled?
Paul says Abraham was justified by faith, and that his works may justify him to men but not to God.
James says "someone may say" and is admonishing Jews in particular for being partial to the rich and showing contempt for the poor.
Paul says rich and poor alike, Jew and Gentile alike have sina nd are all guilty and no one is able to judge but God alone.
James says if you have sinned even once you are guilty of breaking the whole law.
Paul says none of us should judge each other but accept one another in the faith without raising doubtful accusations.
James says talking about hospitality without actually showing it is as good as not even bothering to talk about it.
I mean what are you gonna do, throw away all of Romans except chapter 2?
Or accept that the scripture is way more complex than this ridiculous argument over whether God is faithful or not is getting painted to be?
Acknowledging that salvation is by grace through faith, not of works is NOT tantamount to excusing a life of willful sin.
Please.
Let's figure out how to spur one another to good works and to wise, righteous living without falsely threatening God's children with damnation.
Salvation is free. It is real salvation. it is not a fake salvation or a lying promise. Eternal life is not a temporary illusion of maybe-life-but-maybe-death-who-knows.
The only proper reaction to salvation is seeking goodness and love. That's what we who are actually saved do. We can't help it; God lives in us. So no more tearing down, how about building up?
Paul says Abraham was justified by faith, and that his works may justify him to men but not to God.
James says "someone may say" and is admonishing Jews in particular for being partial to the rich and showing contempt for the poor.
Paul says rich and poor alike, Jew and Gentile alike have sina nd are all guilty and no one is able to judge but God alone.
James says if you have sinned even once you are guilty of breaking the whole law.
Paul says none of us should judge each other but accept one another in the faith without raising doubtful accusations.
James says talking about hospitality without actually showing it is as good as not even bothering to talk about it.
I mean what are you gonna do, throw away all of Romans except chapter 2?
Or accept that the scripture is way more complex than this ridiculous argument over whether God is faithful or not is getting painted to be?
Acknowledging that salvation is by grace through faith, not of works is NOT tantamount to excusing a life of willful sin.
Please.
Let's figure out how to spur one another to good works and to wise, righteous living without falsely threatening God's children with damnation.
Salvation is free. It is real salvation. it is not a fake salvation or a lying promise. Eternal life is not a temporary illusion of maybe-life-but-maybe-death-who-knows.
The only proper reaction to salvation is seeking goodness and love. That's what we who are actually saved do. We can't help it; God lives in us. So no more tearing down, how about building up?
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James literally says "someone will say..."
Who is that someone? Why is that someone saying what they will say?
James literally says if you break the law in any point you are guilty of all of it. James does not break the law into parts; he literally says the whole law. He ain't talking about 'just the 10 commandments' his whole spiel is from Leviticus 19 —showing partially to the rich ((or those who buy into your ideas of what 'rich' means))
Paul literally says no one is innocent of breaking the law - all have sinned and are guilty.
Paul literally says salvation has nothing to do with our conduct but everything to do with our belief and what we put our trust in.
Are Paul and James presenting different gospels or is James talking about out witness and wise conduct and is Paul talking about our salvation?
How much of the Bible do we believe? All of it together?
A lot of people literally preach that Paul is Antichrist and want to delete everything he wrote except for a couple of isolated verses from places like Romans 2
@Runningman be careful or in a year you're going to be in exactly that boat - and bro, it's full of holes. Bail.
Who is that someone? Why is that someone saying what they will say?
James literally says if you break the law in any point you are guilty of all of it. James does not break the law into parts; he literally says the whole law. He ain't talking about 'just the 10 commandments' his whole spiel is from Leviticus 19 —showing partially to the rich ((or those who buy into your ideas of what 'rich' means))
Paul literally says no one is innocent of breaking the law - all have sinned and are guilty.
Paul literally says salvation has nothing to do with our conduct but everything to do with our belief and what we put our trust in.
Are Paul and James presenting different gospels or is James talking about out witness and wise conduct and is Paul talking about our salvation?
How much of the Bible do we believe? All of it together?
A lot of people literally preach that Paul is Antichrist and want to delete everything he wrote except for a couple of isolated verses from places like Romans 2
@Runningman be careful or in a year you're going to be in exactly that boat - and bro, it's full of holes. Bail.
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Of course you disagree because you teach salvation by works in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) they have faith, but they have no works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
Faith "alone" here refers to an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works, as we see in James 2:14. SAYS/CLAIMS to have faith - key word. *Not to be confuse with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. That is crystal clear.
The faith of Abraham was faith. Works followed as the demonstrative evidence of his faith, yet faith is still faith and works are still works. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith that is alive and not dead, yet works are not the essence of faith and also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.
Yes I do as do all genuine believers.
Salvation by works is not the will of the Father. (Matthew 7:22-23) John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Are you ready to believe?
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) they have faith, but they have no works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
Faith "alone" here refers to an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works, as we see in James 2:14. SAYS/CLAIMS to have faith - key word. *Not to be confuse with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. That is crystal clear.
The faith of Abraham was faith. Works followed as the demonstrative evidence of his faith, yet faith is still faith and works are still works. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith that is alive and not dead, yet works are not the essence of faith and also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.
Yes I do as do all genuine believers.
Salvation by works is not the will of the Father. (Matthew 7:22-23) John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Are you ready to believe?
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Empty profession of faith/dead faith is exactly what James is writing about. Says/claims (key word) to have faith, but has no works. Can that faith save him? (James 2:14) Faith that is alive in Christ saves and will be utilized (Ephesians 2:5-10) but not a bare profession of faith.
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If someone has genuine faith there will be works because God is working in them. Amen! All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) Those who produce no fruit at all demonstrate a spurious faith. (James 2:14) Without faith it's impossible to please God, as these many people who trusted in works for salvation (Matthew 7:22-23) and failed to do the will of the Father (John 6:40) will find out the hard way.
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Acts 17:31 KJV
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which
he will judge the world
in righteousness
by that man whom he hath ordained;
whereof
he hath given assurance
unto all men,
in that he hath raised him
from the dead.
God is a righteous Judge, no matter what your circumstance.
He knows how to get the Gospel to every person.
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which
he will judge the world
in righteousness
by that man whom he hath ordained;
whereof
he hath given assurance
unto all men,
in that he hath raised him
from the dead.
God is a righteous Judge, no matter what your circumstance.
He knows how to get the Gospel to every person.
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Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.
1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.
1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
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