Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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Mar 14, 2011
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Amen romans 1 says we not only know what we do is sin but we praise others for doing it knowing we are judged
and Paul spoke of times past before the law was given
 

Ogom

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Aug 22, 2020
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I agree with everything but your last sentence.

It was not that way from the start


3“What did Moses command you?” he replied.

4They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”

5“It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied.

?
 

Ogom

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Aug 22, 2020
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.... Being born again is instant. A baby is born complete. It grows into maturity, but it has everything that it needs from birth. So it is with the born again spirit. Don't confuse conception and birth.


19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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3“What did Moses command you?” he replied.

4They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”

5“It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied.

?
I still disagree with the concept unless I misunderstood it..

to me the start is Adam and eve and their sin. The law was not the culmination of everything from that time. The law was given so no one would have an excuse. You cant technically charge a person with the sin of adultery. unless there is a command that says do not commit adultery. And the command does not even tell you every way you can break the command. or how to keep it.
 

Icedaisey

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Jul 19, 2021
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I agree with everything but your last sentence.

It was not that way from the start
When God handed the 10 commandments to Moses, that was the start. And if you review them you'll see they encompass the two great commands Jesus, who was God, gave Moses.
Love God, love your neighbor.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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When God handed the 10 commandments to Moses, that was the start. And if you review them you'll see they encompass the two great commands Jesus, who was God, gave Moses.
Love God, love your neighbor.
When God gave them to Moses. He had moses declair to the people of Israel

Deuteronomy 27:26
‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen

Again, In Gal 3. Paul reiterated the same command. And finished by telling us the purpose of the law. Which was to lead us to christ.

james stated that if we keep the whole law. Yet stumble in one point we are guilty

The law was given to condemn us, not to help us live righteous lives.

As for the two commands. THEY ENCOMPASS the many commands of the law 9there were more than ten) not as you say, the ten commands encompass the law of love.

The law of love is what helps us grow in christ by being obedient, Not the law of moses..

If I love a person I will not sin against that person
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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When God gave them to Moses. He had moses declair to the people of Israel

Deuteronomy 27:26
‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen

Again, In Gal 3. Paul reiterated the same command. And finished by telling us the purpose of the law. Which was to lead us to christ.

james stated that if we keep the whole law. Yet stumble in one point we are guilty

The law was given to condemn us, not to help us live righteous lives.

As for the two commands. THEY ENCOMPASS the many commands of the law 9there were more than ten) not as you say, the ten commands encompass the law of love.

The law of love is what helps us grow in christ by being obedient, Not the law of moses..

If I love a person I will not sin against that person
It isn't Moses' law, it is God's law.

You can't love a person and not sin against them if the law is not applicable to your way of thinking.

Romans 2

Romans 7
Verse 7 What then shall we say? Is the Law sin? Never may it be! But I have not known sin, if not by Law. And indeed, I had not been conscious of covetousness if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet."
 
Mar 14, 2011
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It isn't Moses' law, it is God's law.
Scripture calls it moses law. So that is why I call it that

You can't love a person and not sin against them if the law is not applicable to your way of thinking.
Jesus said all the law and prophets are encompassed in these two commands. I am just going by what jesus said

I can never have sex with anyone but my wife, and according to the LAW. I have never sinned, Yet as Jesus said, If I look to a lady with lust, even though I never did the act. I have sinned.

According to the law Of moses I am not a transgressors. According to the law of love I have sinned.

This is WHY the law of moses was not given to instruct us how not to sin. It was given to EXPOSE the fact we are sinners. And then show us Gods provision to restor us to him (sacrifice and the temple)
Romans 2

Romans 7
Verse 7 What then shall we say? Is the Law sin? Never may it be! But I have not known sin, if not by Law. And indeed, I had not been conscious of covetousness if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet."
Paul is making a point that the law exposes our sin.
the law of love is where we need to go to. Not the law of moses. UNLESS you have not come to christ, in which case, Your still under the schoolmaster


Gal 3:
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring usto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

why would you want to go back to the tutur after it fulfilled its purpose in your life. And not go to what really makes us christlike people who learn to love as he first loves us.

The law of moses brings condemnation.

The law of love brings Gods love to us and turns our focus off self and on to God
 

Icedaisey

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Jul 19, 2021
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Scripture calls it moses law. So that is why I call it that


Jesus said all the law and prophets are encompassed in these two commands. I am just going by what jesus said

I can never have sex with anyone but my wife, and according to the LAW. I have never sinned, Yet as Jesus said, If I look to a lady with lust, even though I never did the act. I have sinned.

According to the law Of moses I am not a transgressors. According to the law of love I have sinned.

This is WHY the law of moses was not given to instruct us how not to sin. It was given to EXPOSE the fact we are sinners. And then show us Gods provision to restor us to him (sacrifice and the temple)

Paul is making a point that the law exposes our sin.
the law of love is where we need to go to. Not the law of moses. UNLESS you have not come to christ, in which case, Your still under the schoolmaster


Gal 3:
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring usto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

why would you want to go back to the tutur after it fulfilled its purpose in your life. And not go to what really makes us christlike people who learn to love as he first loves us.

The law of moses brings condemnation.

The law of love brings Gods love to us and turns our focus off self and on to God
When you think the law has no thing, no place, in the life of Christians you're doing what EG thinks and says.

It has no semblance of relationship to what Jesus taught.

It's not an argument or a debate. There's Jesus. And there's your preference to delete what you don't agree with. That's it.

Anyone who says the law of God has no place in the life of a Christian is giving their testimony.
They're not speaking of nor from the actual truth, of God's , Jesus' word. Because God's word revokes the falsehood that God's law is no longer applicable for the Christian.

It's a lie straight from the pit.

No seeker of Christ and redemption, no holy spirit indwelt Christian, will or shall ever be misled by such falsehood.

Shame on anyone seeking to lead anyone here astray.

People! Don't follow lies.
Seek the truth and the truth shall make you, keep you, free.

“We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:10

The law of God in OT didn't save people. It doesn't save them now. The law pertains to comportment. Behavior, recognizing right from wrong.

You can't not sin against your neighbor if you aren't cognizant of what sin is.
Anyone who has questions concerning that, I implore you to take your time and read Romans 2.

Commentary excerpted from link:
Romans 2:12-13
We cannot be justified before God except through faith in the sacrifice of God's Son, Jesus Christ, and then God gives us grace. This does not excuse us from keeping the law because He says those who keep the law will be justified; therefore, keeping the law cannot justify. It cannot save a person, but those who keep the law will be justified and saved—not because they are keeping the law in order to be saved but because they are faithful in showing God that they are preparing their lives for His Kingdom, where everybody will live the same godly life, according to the same rules. That is what God's law outlines—His way of life.

This section, up to verse 16, shows that both those with a formal ignorance of God's law (say, the Gentiles) and those with knowledge of the law (in this case, the Jews, or in our context now, Christians) will be judged by the law. Why? Because the law defines sin! Sin brings God's judgment.

John W. Ritenbaugh
The Covenants, Grace, and Law (Part Sixteen)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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When you think the law has no thing, no place, in the life of Christians you're doing what EG thinks and says.
I did not say it Paul did. I quoted to you the passage where he said it.

When you try to push the law as applicable to a christians life. You are doing what Icedaisey thinks. Not what scripture says (How did that feel. was that a valid argument saying it is just what you think?
It has no semblance of relationship to what Jesus taught.

It's not an argument or a debate. There's Jesus. And there's your preference to delete what you don't agree with. That's it.

Anyone who says the law of God has no place in the life of a Christian is giving their testimony.
They're not speaking of nor from the actual truth, of God's , Jesus' word. Because God's word revokes the falsehood that God's law is no longer applicable for the Christian.

It's a lie straight from the pit.

No seeker of Christ and redemption, no holy spirit indwelt Christian, will or shall ever be misled by such falsehood.

Shame on anyone seeking to lead anyone here astray.

People! Don't follow lies.
Seek the truth and the truth shall make you, keep you, free.

“We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:10

The law of God in OT didn't save people. It doesn't save them now. The law pertains to comportment. Behavior, recognizing right from wrong.

You can't not sin against your neighbor if you aren't cognizant of what sin is.
Anyone who has questions concerning that, I implore you to take your time and read Romans 2.

Commentary excerpted from link:
Romans 2:12-13
We cannot be justified before God except through faith in the sacrifice of God's Son, Jesus Christ, and then God gives us grace. This does not excuse us from keeping the law because He says those who keep the law will be justified; therefore, keeping the law cannot justify. It cannot save a person, but those who keep the law will be justified and saved—not because they are keeping the law in order to be saved but because they are faithful in showing God that they are preparing their lives for His Kingdom, where everybody will live the same godly life, according to the same rules. That is what God's law outlines—His way of life.


This section, up to verse 16, shows that both those with a formal ignorance of God's law (say, the Gentiles) and those with knowledge of the law (in this case, the Jews, or in our context now, Christians) will be judged by the law. Why? Because the law defines sin! Sin brings God's judgment.

John W. Ritenbaugh
The Covenants, Grace, and Law (Part Sixteen)
1. I am not saying it is ok to break the law. Since it seems that is what you are claiming, You need to stop right now. Because you are not hearing a word I say.
2. The law was given to expose sin. NO ONE can keep the law. Even Jesus said no one is good but God. and as Paul said, All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, how do we know all have sinned and fall short? THE LAW.
3. How can one keep the law be justified when the law condemns anyone who does not obey every word? Your causing the word to Contradict. When paul said doers of the law. He did not mean they KEPT THE LAW, He said those who DO (by practice) the law. How do we do this? By not breaking the law.

How do we not break the law? By the letter? Well once again I PROVED TO YOU one can keep the letter yet still sin. So it is not the law that tells us how to Keep it or do it. It is becoming like christ.

how do we do this?

BY THE LAW OF LOVE.

Your looking to the law to attempt to be righteous. You will fail. Because that was NOT the purpose of the law.

Try looking to Christ and learn to love as he loves you. And you will by practice keep the law

Continue to try to do it by the law. You will be just another pharisee who never understand what it looks like to be christlike
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Continue to try to do it by the law. You will be just another pharisee who never understand what it looks like to be christlike
You are changing the Lord's instructions to obey Him if you love him into obey him if you want to be justified. Twisting a truth from the Lord is what demons do, not Christians.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You are changing the Lord's instructions to obey Him if you love him into obey him if you want to be justified. Twisting a truth from the Lord is what demons do, not Christians.
No, I am not doing that at all

I am trying to let you know HOW and what EMPOWERS us to do obey

Your the one twisting the truth my friend. By refusing to acknowledge the purpose of the law
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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I did not say it Paul did. I quoted to you the passage where he said it.

When you try to push the law as applicable to a christians life. You are doing what Icedaisey thinks. Not what scripture says (How did that feel. was that a valid argument saying it is just what you think?


1. I am not saying it is ok to break the law. Since it seems that is what you are claiming, You need to stop right now. Because you are not hearing a word I say.
2. The law was given to expose sin. NO ONE can keep the law. Even Jesus said no one is good but God. and as Paul said, All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, how do we know all have sinned and fall short? THE LAW.
3. How can one keep the law be justified when the law condemns anyone who does not obey every word? Your causing the word to Contradict. When paul said doers of the law. He did not mean they KEPT THE LAW, He said those who DO (by practice) the law. How do we do this? By not breaking the law.

How do we not break the law? By the letter? Well once again I PROVED TO YOU one can keep the letter yet still sin. So it is not the law that tells us how to Keep it or do it. It is becoming like christ.

how do we do this?

BY THE LAW OF LOVE.

Your looking to the law to attempt to be righteous. You will fail. Because that was NOT the purpose of the law.

Try looking to Christ and learn to love as he loves you. And you will by practice keep the law

Continue to try to do it by the law. You will be just another pharisee who never understand what it looks like to be christlike


You're lost. The hollow statement, the law of love, resonates as evidence.And calling me the slanderous lie that I am anything close to Pharisee doesn't change that.
Nor does trying to implicate Paul in your false doctrine.



Readers, if you don't know what love for God means, or is, and you don't know what it means to respect yourself and others, you can't know what it means to love them.

If you love yourself and your neighbor you don't steal from them, covet their goods, lie about them, etc...

If you love yourself and God who gave you life, you have no other Gods in your heart. You do not take his name in vain, etc...
There are more commands as Jesus told us as well.
Beware of being called least in the kingdom of heaven for leading others to deny the laws spirit or presence in the Christian life is null and void.


Matthew 5 - there is also an admonishment regarding the taking of oaths

Readers, not all has come to pass with regard to the new age that ensued with the coming of the Messiah. Therefore, Matthew 5 still has something to teach you.

Lastly, there is another falsehood that relates to the Decalogue, ten commands. That the American justice systems laws are grounded in those.

This is not true.
Link

Many imagine this is so because 10 commandments monuments appear(Ed) on the grounds of courthouses across America.

Those monuments were placed by person's employed by Hollywood studios long years ago in 1951.

This to promote the forthcoming release of the Charlton Heston film, The Ten Commandments.

"...a Minnesota judge asked a defendant if he realized he'd broken the Ten Commandments. The young man said he had never heard of them.

Hollywood director Cecil B. DeMille learned of this and saw it as the perfect opportunity to boost his new movie, which just happened to be an epic version of The Ten Commandments story. DeMille and a fraternal group called the Eagles paid to install a couple hundred Decalogue tablets in important public spaces across America." Source, full article


More reading/information sources
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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If your system of living ignores the ten commands Jesus said to obey if you love him, because those honor God and the fellow woman-man we're suppose to love as ourselves, or 9 for those who don't honor the day God gifted us in his rest, you're on the wrong page.
Jesus gave a lot more than 10 commands, commandments to obey when on earth.
 
Mar 14, 2011
75,364
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You're lost. The hollow statement, the law of love, resonates as evidence.And calling me the slanderous lie that I am anything close to Pharisee doesn't change that.
Nor does trying to implicate Paul in your false doctrine.



Readers, if you don't know what love for God means, or is, and you don't know what it means to respect yourself and others, you can't know what it means to love them.

If you love yourself and your neighbor you don't steal from them, covet their goods, lie about them, etc...

If you love yourself and God who gave you life, you have no other Gods in your heart. You do not take his name in vain, etc...
There are more commands as Jesus told us as well.
Beware of being called least in the kingdom of heaven for leading others to deny the laws spirit or presence in the Christian life is null and void.


Matthew 5 - there is also an admonishment regarding the taking of oaths

Readers, not all has come to pass with regard to the new age that ensued with the coming of the Messiah. Therefore, Matthew 5 still has something to teach you.

Lastly, there is another falsehood that relates to the Decalogue, ten commands. That the American justice systems laws are grounded in those.

This is not true.
Link

Many imagine this is so because 10 commandments monuments appear(Ed) on the grounds of courthouses across America.

Those monuments were placed by person's employed by Hollywood studios long years ago in 1951.

This to promote the forthcoming release of the Charlton Heston film, The Ten Commandments.

"...a Minnesota judge asked a defendant if he realized he'd broken the Ten Commandments. The young man said he had never heard of them.

Hollywood director Cecil B. DeMille learned of this and saw it as the perfect opportunity to boost his new movie, which just happened to be an epic version of The Ten Commandments story. DeMille and a fraternal group called the Eagles paid to install a couple hundred Decalogue tablets in important public spaces across America." Source, full article


More reading/information sources
Your a typical lawyer. So there is really nothing more to be said.

You did slander me by insinuating that I think it is ok to break Gods commandments. You all do this

to conclude

1. I proved the law according to God required perfection. other wise. you are cursed. It was said by Moses. Repeated by Paul. and reiterated by James. Even jesus himself said, No one is good but God
2. If I break a command. I am in sin. I never denied this
3. The law of love is a factual thing, It is the two commands Jesus said encompasses all the law and prophets. It is HOW we are obedient
4. The command says. do not commit adultry
a. The command does not tell us every possible way of commiting this sin
b. the command does not tell us HOW to obey it
5. The law says if I break this command, I have commited sin
6. the law says if you break this one command you are guilty of it and cursed
7. James made it clear. even if you STUMBLED into breaking this command, your guilty of the law
8. The law says if you break this command, the only way to have that sin attoned is by the blood of a pur unspotted lamb ( a lamb without sin)

so in effect..
1. The law shows all under sin
2. The law says whoever sin is cursed
3. The law says the only means of atonement is the lamb

for all have sinned and fall hort (missed the mark) of the glory of God

the law is that mark,

Your not perfect. I am not perfect.

of course the courts use the commands. The commmands were there to CONDEMN YOU so you could be tried and found guilty. So that judgment can be passed.

The law was NOT given to show you HOW to be christlike.

It was given to PROVE TO YOU how unchristlike you are.

The fact you think you can keep the law is worrysome. Because it shows me you have no comprehension of the purpose of the law. and you have watered down the law so it suits you. Otherwise. You would be on your knees crying out for Gods mercy like the tax collector.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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You are changing the Lord's instructions to obey Him if you love him into obey him if you want to be justified. Twisting a truth from the Lord is what demons do, not Christians.
You will never reach someone who is blind to the truth.

Jesus foresaw false teachers committed to the work of their father.
Which is why millionaire false megachurch wolves are so easily dismissed.

Jesus said, sell all you have and follow him. That to be an Apostle of his word would mean to let those who received them and the Good News, sustain them with food, shelter.
Which means a Paula White abomination who arrives in the church parking lot and while driving a Rolls Royce is a literal damned fraud.

God gives us his holy spirit to indwell the Christian so that we are able to ascertain his truth, his anointed ministers of his word, as well as to identify the damned. Those Mammon worshiping liars and those committed to injecting contradictory teachings into forums dedicated to praising Gods truth.

I browsed a forum a few years ago. A person claiming to be a preacher for the truth of God was a member then.
Oh, the chaos they installed into that BDF.
Astonishing bolder dash and blatant blasphemies they argues as gospel.

I returned weeks later to see if that newbie was still being tolerated. They weren't. Praise God.

They're out there though. Some are atheists pretending to believe, just to argue false doctrine and upset real believers.
They don't believe in God. They just believe they'll spend time upsetting Gods people.

We can't argue with the Devil's own. If they knew truth they'd not hold allegiance with the pit destined loser.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
890
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Jesus gave a lot more than 10 commands, commandments to obey when on earth.
Be careful, or we'll hear Jesus being accused of being a lawyer. :rolleyes:

Law breakers hate lawyers.

Have you noticed a correlation between those who insist God's laws are vacated, no longer have merit at all, with those who insist we have to labor, work, to retain our Salvation? Because it is not eternal and we can lose it by our own choice or actions?

I've encountered many like that. It's a blessing in that they in their own words then prove they're not to be taken seriously when denying first that God's laws are finished.

Probably shouldn't have said that though. If any of those type folk happen on that they may change their tactics.:unsure: