Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,201
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,201
Runningman said:
I don’t even know what you’re talking about. What about the law? you think the first and greatest commandment, to love God, is the law of Moses? That isn’t the law of Moses, that’s the law of God.

What I think will help you have a coherent Bible discussion is learning about the different kinds of laws and works. When the word law or work is used, it isn’t always referring to keeping the Law of Moses.
Click to expand...
I can;t take anymore of your self righteous mumbo jumbo anymore

go and water down the law. You will see one day how deeply sinful you are. I pray you see before its too late
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#5,202
Jul 13, 2021
3,655
568
113
#5,202
Runningman said:
You’re not interpreting it correctly and your premise is false. I know how to correctly interpret it though. It means that salvation is a gift, but grace and faith aren’t.
Click to expand...
You interpret it wrong. If salvation is a gift and it is by grace and faith, then they must be gifts too - can't be one without the others.

Runningman said:
Anyway, in Ephesians 5 it says that salvation can be lost via living according to a sinful nature. I strongly urge you to read more than just Ephesians 2 improperly divided and isolated from the grander narrative.

Ephesians 5
3But among you, as is proper among the saints, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Click to expand...
Those saved have in principle already received their inheritance so it cannot be informing they might lose or not get it. Chapter 5 edifies the saints on how they are to live, not on how to get or keep salvation. Edification is how saints come to learn. But only
those saved follow it without trying to use it to leverage salvation- they follow it because they know it is from God and providing them guidance through Paul, and therefore, it is their desire to follow it. Those who become saved do not wake up one morning, after salvation automatically knowing everything about how to live a Christian life, that has to be taught to them.
Besides that, to you think that King David was saved? He committed many of the sins you say would preclude salvation but they were forgiven him by God.

[Eph 5:17 KJV] 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord [is].
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#5,203
Jan 18, 2011
12,291
6,665
113
#5,203
Runningman said:
You’re not interpreting it correctly and your premise is false. I know how to correctly interpret it though. It means that salvation is a gift, but grace and faith aren’t.

Anyway, in Ephesians 5 it says that salvation can be lost via living according to a sinful nature. I strongly urge you to read more than just Ephesians 2 improperly divided and isolated from the grander narrative.

Ephesians 5
3But among you, as is proper among the saints, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Click to expand...
the definition of the greek word for grace is " unmerited favor : so, there is that..
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#5,204
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#5,204
gb9 said:
the definition of the greek word for grace is " unmerited favor : so, there is that..
Click to expand...
That’s an easy one to disprove and I think most people already know this, but the word for grace in Greek does not imply favor being received without. If you can prove otherwise, then provide the proof for your claim.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#5,205
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
#5,205
Runningman said:
That’s an easy one to disprove and I think most people already know this, but the word for grace in Greek does not imply favor being received without. If you can prove otherwise, then provide the proof for your claim.
Click to expand...
What did you do to merit your salvation?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#5,206
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#5,206
rogerg said:
You interpret it wrong. If salvation is a gift and it is by grace and faith, then they must be gifts too - can't be one without the others.



Those saved have in principle already received their inheritance so it cannot be informing they might lose or not get it. Chapter 5 edifies the saints on how they are to live, not on how to get or keep salvation. Edification is how saints come to learn. But only
those saved follow it without trying to use it to leverage salvation- they follow it because they know it is from God and providing them guidance through Paul, and therefore, it is their desire to follow it. Those who become saved do not wake up one morning, after salvation automatically knowing everything about how to live a Christian life, that has to be taught to them.
Besides that, to you think that King David was saved? He committed many of the sins you say would preclude salvation but they were forgiven him by God.

[Eph 5:17 KJV] 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord [is].
Click to expand...
No they haven’t receive their inheritance yet. One can have eternal life, beginning now, provided they don’t die again spiritually, but immortality isn’t actually received until after the resurrection in the age to come. That’s because salvation can be lost.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#5,208
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#5,208
VARob said:
What did you do to merit your salvation?
Click to expand...
If grace is unmerited then not even faith would be required. People say things like “grace is unmerited favor” which just another cog in the OSAS machine that makes it all work.

Since grace is based on merit, it accessed through faith like Romans 5 says. Grace just means favor.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,209
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,209
Runningman said:
If grace is unmerited then not even faith would be required. People say things like “grace is unmerited favor” which just another cog in the OSAS machine that makes it all work.

Since grace is based on merit, it accessed through faith like Romans 5 says. Grace just means favor.
Click to expand...
Faith is not required.

you neither understand grace or faith..

you need to find another church.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#5,210
Jan 18, 2011
12,291
6,665
113
#5,210
Runningman said:
That’s an easy one to disprove and I think most people already know this, but the word for grace in Greek does not imply favor being received without. If you can prove otherwise, then provide the proof for your claim.
Click to expand...
ah, so just ignore word meanings and just make up your own.

yep, that is a good idea....
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#5,211
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#5,211
gb9 said:
ah, so just ignore word meanings and just make up your own.

yep, that is a good idea....
Click to expand...
That’s what you’re doing though. I’ve already looked it up many times and studied it. It doesn’t mean unmerited favor.

I gave you a chance to not embarrass yourself, but you’re doubling down on false information.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,213
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,213
Runningman said:
That’s what you’re doing though. I’ve already looked it up many times and studied it. It doesn’t mean unmerited grace.

I gave you a chance to not embarrass yourself, but you’re doubling down on false information.
Click to expand...
You have not studied

Paul said we can not boast of grace. So its not something we can earn.

he also said if it is of grace it is NOT of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

so no matter how you spin it. Works cancels grace/
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,217
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,217
VARob said:
It most certainly is.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

No faith in Christ, no salvation.
Click to expand...
Lol.. Faith is the means by which we RECIEVE grace.

but it is grace that we are saved.

Faith is not a work. He is saying faith is a work. That is wrong. Hence in his defenition of faith, it is not required.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#5,220
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
#5,220
Runningman said:
If grace is unmerited then not even faith would be required. People say things like “grace is unmerited favor” which just another cog in the OSAS machine that makes it all work.
Click to expand...
God through Christ made salvation available by faith. Do you think having faith in Christ somehow EARNS God's grace?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.