Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Our problem is we think eternal life and Jesus are two different thing. Eternal life always In Jesus Christ, As long as we hold Jesus we have it. You can not separate Eternal life and Jesus. I reject Jesus and have eternal life- It does not work that way.
1 John 5:12- He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
John 3:15- so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life
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I agree that salvation can not be lost. Once saved always saved is right. But after getting saved, If we can not Reject Jesus, Than God is doing something out of his nature. He is forcing his will to us. I know that He can force us, but according to his nature he gives free will and freedom. So he will not force us. That's why I am saying salvation can not be lost but can be thrown away. I threw something does not mean I have lost it, I know where to look, I know where to go and pick it up. Nobody can pick my salvation but me.

P.S- My comment for every bible narration is- If anybody narrate bible verse which is opposite of Gods nature, than there is a problem. such as- (God is sovereign, omnipotent, Just, peace, all loving, believe in freedom, free in nature, good, friendly, has holy anger, all knowing etc ... ... ... ) So if any narration is not harmonized with Gods nature, I will not agree with it completely. How many literal Bible verse you show me it does not matter as long as it do not match with Gods nature.

Thank you for understanding.
Nope

We have to take jesus at his word or else we will take our eyes off of him and put it on ourself

Our hope of faith is that we have eternal life.

Titus paul tells us the hope of eternal life., which God, who can not lie, promised before time began.

John says he wrote a whole book so we can know we have eternal life in our possession and by it believe in his name..

I can not put myself in God. God must pull me to himself. He adopts me. He keeps me. I have no power to do anything.

If eternal life is based on me putting myself in christ. then I have the power of eternal life. Not god.

That is works my friend.
 

arpon

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2017
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Nope

We have to take jesus at his word or else we will take our eyes off of him and put it on ourself

Our hope of faith is that we have eternal life.

Titus paul tells us the hope of eternal life., which God, who can not lie, promised before time began.

John says he wrote a whole book so we can know we have eternal life in our possession and by it believe in his name..

I can not put myself in God. God must pull me to himself. He adopts me. He keeps me. I have no power to do anything.

If eternal life is based on me putting myself in christ. then I have the power of eternal life. Not god.

That is works my friend.
You are Exactly right. In Christ we have eternal life. I agree with you that it is based on us putting ourselves in Christ. Christ is the Tree we are the vine. So as long we are into the tree we are in eternal life. But as long as we are not within the tree, though we are the vine but we do not have the life, cause Jesus himself is eternal life. He gives us eternal life actually means He gives himself to us. Jesus=eternal life is the gift of our father.
But we can throw Jesus/eternal life away because God do not work opposite of his nature. If you say you will not throw away Jesus/eternal life, no problem. But If you say you can not throw away eternal life, there is Gods nature related problem cause in that case you are only his slave but not children.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are Exactly right. In Christ we have eternal life. I agree with you that it is based on us putting ourselves in Christ. Christ is the Tree we are the vine. So as long we are into the tree we are in eternal life. But as long as we are not within the tree, though we are the vine but we do not have the life, cause Jesus himself is eternal life. He gives us eternal life actually means He gives himself to us. Jesus=eternal life is the gift of our father.
But we can throw Jesus/eternal life away because God do not work opposite of his nature. If you say you will not throw away Jesus/eternal life, no problem. But If you say you can not throw away eternal life, there is Gods nature related problem cause in that case you are only his slave but not children.
John 6

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

You can't throw away eternal life. Because you could never earn it.

We are predestined because God knows who are his. and God gave them to Jesus out of this knowledge/

Saying we can change and have to tell God to take his gift back is to say God gave a gift not knowing that person would stop believeing and deny him

Thats dangerous my friend
 

arpon

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2017
72
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John 6

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

You can't throw away eternal life. Because you could never earn it.

We are predestined because God knows who are his. and God gave them to Jesus out of this knowledge/

Saying we can change and have to tell God to take his gift back is to say God gave a gift not knowing that person would stop believeing and deny him

Thats dangerous my friend
Thank you, It was really helpful for me to ponder about Gods freedom. I really grateful to you cause you have deepened my thought more about this topic.

... I will by no means cast out.- Yes, Jesus will by no means cast out. I agree with that verse. But the problem is we are thinking only partially, not the whole side. If you only take it literally without the nature of God, than you are rejecting some part of God, which is freedom of choice. If one wants to be cast out than what? will Jesus forcefully stop him or not? If Jesus see him as slave he will stop him, If Jesus see him as child of God and slave than he will let him out, as simple as that. So when we combine the verse with Gods nature than we will understand that Jesus will not cast out as long his people are willing to be with him. So If we cast out the nature of God from the scene, than your version of OSAS is totally correct and in that version we are his puppets, slave but not children who have freedom of choice.

Bye the way. Now I am more strong in my believe. Thank you again. You might want to be slave, Its OK, But I am not. I am Gods child so are you and I will be Gods child and slave even after the final hour. I have no intension to be Gods Slave only who do not have any freedom. (If you can state and connect your OSAS with Gods nature and show me, I will totally ready to accept that. Cause It really will be awesome, Who wants to lose salvation? no one, at least not me. But the reality does not seemed like that, our imagination is seemed like that.) :) Nice talking to you. My apology if I hurt your feelings.
 

peldom10

Well-known member
May 22, 2020
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9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Learn to read my friend

Jesus did not contradict himself and claim we can only be saved by belief in him, then say we must endure to the end if we really want salvation

I knew that would be your response if we were lucky enough to get one.

There is nothing in that reference that limits it to just the trib. period. Look at 9...then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you....
That is citing the same as with tribulation and refers to time before.
There are other references...you can search and find them.