Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Everlasting-Grace]

It doesn’t prove your point. Actually it debunks your point which is why I showed it to you. If the condition isn’t met then that person doesn’t abide in the Son or Father and, therefore, doesn’t have eternal life.

A person does not attach themselves to christ They do not have that power

It does not say we abide in him, it says if the truth we HEARD abides in us.

so no,. It does not debunk my point at all

 

[Mem]

According to the parable, good soil is what needs to be present, by which good roots can form. To make for good planting, the soil must be broken up, rocks thrown out, weeds pulled, and sufficiently watered. Then the seed can be ensured to take root and flourish, given that it is good seed. So that is the 'saved.' The other ground has little or no chance of producing any crop.

 

[Runningman]

A person does not attach themselves to christ They do not have that power

It does not say we abide in him, it says if the truth we HEARD abides in us.

so no,. It does not debunk my point at all

Oh I remember you. It’s been awhile since we talked, but I hope you’re doing well. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but I see you’re intentionally misunderstanding universally agreed upon grammar, definitions, and ignoring parts of the context. So I think I’ll end here and post it one more time now that we’re on the next page.

Eternal life is conditional upon faith and faith is a choice:
1 John 2:24,25 NKJV
24Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25And this isthe promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Oh I remember you. It’s been awhile since we talked, but I hope you’re doing well. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but I see you’re intentionally misunderstanding universally agreed upon grammar, definitions, and ignoring parts of the context. So I think I’ll end here and post it one more time now that we’re on the next page.

Eternal life is conditional upon faith and faith is a choice:
1 John 2:24,25 NKJV
24Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25And this isthe promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

Please show me in the passage where John said if the FAITH abides in you.

in order for your example to hold true. John would have to be saying that FAITH must abide.

as you see. He did not say FAITH abides, he said if they HEARD abides in them

those are two different things..

The word will only continue to abide in those who have true faith. If one has mere belief, or lacks faith. The word will not abide in them, because the word has no power..

 

[Runningman]

Please show me in the passage where John said if the FAITH abides in you.

in order for your example to hold true. John would have to be saying that FAITH must abide.

as you see. He did not say FAITH abides, he said if they HEARD abides in them

those are two different things..

The word will only continue to abide in those who have true faith. If one has mere belief, or lacks faith. The word will not abide in them, because the word has no power..

He’s talking about faith. No one is saved by having head knowledge they heard about the gospel abiding in them.

 

[cv5]

Oh I remember you. It’s been awhile since we talked, but I hope you’re doing well. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but I see you’re intentionally misunderstanding universally agreed upon grammar, definitions, and ignoring parts of the context. So I think I’ll end here and post it one more time now that we’re on the next page.

Eternal life is conditional upon faith and faith is a choice:
1 John 2:24,25 NKJV
24Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25And this isthe promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

Bro....Christians have answered both of these questions:

-who and what is there that is better than Jesus and His Prescence?
-where else and what else is there than the Kingdom and the salvation that Jesus provides?

 

[Runningman]

Please show me in the passage where John said if the FAITH abides in you.

in order for your example to hold true. John would have to be saying that FAITH must abide.

as you see. He did not say FAITH abides, he said if they HEARD abides in them

those are two different things..

The word will only continue to abide in those who have true faith. If one has mere belief, or lacks faith. The word will not abide in them, because the word has no power..

Anyway, let’s not split hairs. It does say “let” and “if.” Those are conditions that must be met. If someone stops meeting those conditions, such as those in 1 John 2:19, then they don’t have eternal life.

The bottom line is that what they heard from the beginning must continue to abide in them to have eternal life. If it doesn’t then no eternal life. OSAS is debunked by this passage. I guess you’re free to believe what you want though. That seems to be what most people do nowadays.

 

[Runningman]

Bro....Christians have answered both of these questions:

-who and what is there that is better than Jesus and His Prescence?
-where else and what else is there than the Kingdom and the salvation that Jesus provides?

You’ll probably get a million different answers from Christians to those questions, but as a Christian myself I agree that there no one better than Jesus and His presence and compared to other things nothing is more important than salvation.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

He’s talking about faith. No one is saved by having head knowledge they heard about the gospel abiding in them.

Where do you get that he is talking about faith? If he was talking about faith, he wowuld have said faith. He spoke of knowledge only

Judas had head knowledge but he never had faith, which is why the word did nto abide in him

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Anyway, let’s not split hairs. It does say “let” and “if.” Those are conditions that must be met. If someone stops meeting those conditions, such as those in 1 John 2:19, then they don’t have eternal life.

The bottom line is that what they heard from the beginning must continue to abide in them to have eternal life. If it doesn’t then no eternal life. OSAS is debunked by this passage. I guess you’re free to believe what you want though. That seems to be what most people do nowadays.

The only condition is grace through faith

A licentious person has belief, but has no faith it is dead which is why they have no works.

A legalist may have belief but they have no faith its why they add works to the gospel.

 

[Runningman]

Where do you get that he is talking about faith? If he was talking about faith, he wowuld have said faith. He spoke of knowledge only

Judas had head knowledge but he never had faith, which is why the word did nto abide in him

I know he’s talking about faith because I know the requirements for eternal life. Notice in 1 John 5 he didn’t say knowledge is necessary, it’s believing, but it’s obviously not belief alone since even devils do that. This is the kind of believing that involves faith and trust.

1 John 5
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[Runningman]

The only condition is grace through faith

A licentious person has belief, but has no faith it is dead which is why they have no works.

A legalist may have belief but they have no faith its why they add works to the gospel.

and those who lose their faith keep their eternal life?

 

[Sipsey]

Faith is more easily understood as Trust. It is the “Object” of that trust that determines if that faith is valid. Those that say faith is a fickle phenomenon, are looking askew at the issue. One starts by trusting, then stops, then maybe starts trusting again. Personally, that view mistakes genuine trust, for something less than an absolute trust, which of course, is what God requires.

 

[cv5]

Those that say faith is a fickle phenomenon

Yes....ours. Not God's. We trust in HIS faithfulness. Not ours.

We trust that HE is doing all, paid all, planned all and will complete all.

 

[ZNP]

In Revelation, Satan is bound in the pit by one (mere) angel with a seal that he cannot break.

So who is going to break our seal?

Ask Esau

 

[ZNP]

Deuteronomy 8:19 It shall come about if you ever forget the Lord your God and go after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you today that you will surely perish.

According to the OSAS doctrine this verse is not possible. Those who fall away are not able to "forget the Lord" because they never knew the Lord. Those who at any time in their life did know the Lord are not able to perish.

 

[ZNP]

Deuteronomy 28:20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

forsake here means to leave, to abandon. According to OSAS this is impossible that anyone could abandon the Lord, they argue that those who leave and forsake Him never ever were with Him in the first place, hence they didn't forsake Him. They argue that those who are truly born again would never perish because of the wickedness of their doings. Just so many verses they have cut out of the Bible.

 

[Sipsey]

Deuteronomy 28:20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

forsake here means to leave, to abandon. According to OSAS this is impossible that anyone could abandon the Lord, they argue that those who leave and forsake Him never ever were with Him in the first place, hence they didn't forsake Him. They argue that those who are truly born again would never perish because of the wickedness of their doings. Just so many verses they have cut out of the Bible.

Are you aware that the OT is somewhat different than the NT?

 

[Snacks]

OSAS leads people to chose Universalism or Calvinism.

I can’t argue with your experience regarding OSAS believers, perhaps you’ve seen a trend as you describe above, but I’m not even remotely close to being in either category.

 

[ZNP]

Are you aware that the OT is somewhat different than the NT?

Yes, I am also aware that God is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8) and I am also aware that the things that happened in the OT Were given to us as examples

1Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

I am also aware that those who hold to OSAS have to say that much of the OT does not apply to them, so they deny these two truths.