Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[ZNP]

Cast off the works of darkness

Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

Satan wants you to sit back and do nothing while he is busy with his works of darkness. Don't listen to the "super apostles" of Satan. The apostles of Satan slander you, you overcome by the blood of the lamb and by the word of your testimony.

2Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[ResidentAlien]

the jews believed in good works. The apostles believes in good works. Paul said one of them were wrong. and taught a different gospel.

What was the difference between them?

Paul didn't say "one of them was wrong"; he said some Jews didn't attain what they were seeking because they didn't pursue it by faith (Romans 9:32). But there were righteous Jews who did seek the truth by faith. Likewise, you can't make a blanket statement and say anyone who believes that salvation can be forfeited is pursuing salvation by works. No doubt some are, but as with the Jews, not everyone fits neatly into your little boxes.

I don't work to earn salvation any more than you do.

 

[ZNP]

God has ordained that we should walk in good works

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[ZNP]

We are charged to reprove unfruitful works of darkness

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Where is the fruit from this OSAS? They agree that you can be saved so as through fire and suffer loss. They agree that you can be saved and still put to shame at the Lord's return. And they don't take any responsibility if it turns out you aren't saved. Instead of "Once Saved Always Saved" what they really teach is "Once Saved Always Saved unless you aren't in which case you never were, and by the way, this could be a very poor and shameful salvation".

 

[ZNP]

Paul charged women in the church to adorn themselves with good works.

1Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

He said you only take a widow into the rolls if she is well reported of for good works.

9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man. 10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

He charged the rich to be rich in good works

17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

 

[ZNP]

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

They equate being redeemed from all iniquity as being saved. But if they were really saved they would be zealous of good works.

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

I have no issue with salvation being by faith alone, so why am I slandered for talking about the need to maintain good works?

Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

 

[ResidentAlien]

No doubt there are also eternal security folks who try to earn points with God by doing good works. Not out of faith but to earn better rewards, a bigger crown, a seat closer to the Lord at His table, etc.

"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' " Matthew 7:22-23

 

[Sipsey]

Are you aware that this verse relates directly to Acts 15:24 - We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

Do you what this was referring to?

Acts 15:1-5
1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad.
4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

The "certain people" in v.1 who were teaching believers are the same as the red words in v.5.

So 1 Jn 2:19 isn't about unbelievers infiltrating the church, but rather, believers who are confused and follow false doctrines.

Just as the confused believers who claimed believers needed to be circumcised to be saved (v.1) today we have confused believers who claim that a believer must be water baptized to be saved.

Same principle, different ceremonies.

So, you think the preceding verse (18) when it speaks of the many anti christ’s, and then proceeds to talk about those that left in verse 19 are not related? I find that remarkable.

18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 

[Grandpa]

How do you know they weren't saved, because they fell away? That's like saying which came first, the chicken or the egg. And if what you say is true, then no true Christians ever backslide or fall away.

Correct.

That's why you need to define "Saved", "Walking with the Lord", and "falling away".

Remember, I already asked you to do that before you started asking silly questions and making silly statements.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Correct.

That's why you need to define "Saved", "Walking with the Lord", and "falling away".

Remember, I already asked you to do that before you started asking silly questions and making silly statements.

Have a nice days Grandpa. Life's too short.

 

[PennEd]

I think Jesus tells us who the saved are, and who are not, and why in the parable of the 4 soils.

Soil 1. Are the unsaved world. They heard, but utterly rejected the Gospel right off the bat.

Soil 2. Are your 1 John 2:19 people. The fact that they fell away proves they never had Jesus (the Root) to begin with.

Soil 3. The most difficult soil to grapple with. I believe they are saved, but arrive in eternity with nothing but Jesus as their Foundation, and are amongst the least in Heaven.

Soil 4. Are of course the saved who will rule and reign, along with other rewards, with Jesus.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Paul didn't say "one of them was wrong"; he said some Jews didn't attain what they were seeking because they didn't pursue it by faith (Romans 9:32). But there were righteous Jews who did seek the truth by faith. Likewise, you can't make a blanket statement and say anyone who believes that salvation can be forfeited is pursuing salvation by works. No doubt some are, but as with the Jews, not everyone fits neatly into your little boxes.

I don't work to earn salvation any more than you do.

No.he said some f them were wrong, and they were to be anathema because they tried to add works to the requirment of being saved.. He even called them fools for believing they begin in the flesh (faith) but perfect in the spirit (works)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No doubt there are also eternal security folks who try to earn points with God by doing good works. Not out of faith but to earn better rewards, a bigger crown, a seat closer to the Lord at His table, etc.

Well. Your not going to earn reward for nothing, they are a result of doing works. However, if your doing them to EARN something, it is from the flesh. As apposed to loving out of a humble heart.. Where Gd gets all the credit. Remember what the word says, the greatest will be the least. The least will be the greatest..

We should boast of nothing.. sadly. Many of us do take credit.. Myself included. Which is in error

"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' " Matthew 7:22-23

He never knew them
They practice sin

These are not, mre have they ever been, true believing children of God..

 

[Grandpa]

I think Jesus tells us who the saved are, and who are not, and why in the parable of the 4 soils.

Soil 1. Are the unsaved world. They heard, but utterly rejected the Gospel right off the bat.

Soil 2. Are your 1 John 2:19 people. The fact that they fell away proves they never had Jesus (the Root) to begin with.

Soil 3. The most difficult soil to grapple with. I believe they are saved, but arrive in eternity with nothing but Jesus as their Foundation, and are amongst the least in Heaven.

Soil 4. Are of course the saved who will rule and reign, along with other rewards, with Jesus.

Soil 1 - the seed falls on the ground and immediately dries up

Soil 2 - falls on the rocky ground and has no root and dries up

Soil 3 - falls on the thorny ground and the thorns choke out the plant

Soil 4 - the good ground which brings forth good fruit


I wrote that down to keep it straight in my head. I mix up 1&2 and combine them a lot, in my head, accidently.

I believe these are the 4 different stages of a Saved person. Or the 3 different stages of an unsaved person.


I believe we must go through the first 3 stages to understand that it is ONLY God that can cause our "ground" to be good. I don't believe God would draw someone to Himself and only draw them 3/4 of the way.

Kinda makes you wonder how someone even gets to Soil 3...? Must take a lot of study and perseverence but in the long run relies on human wisdom/understanding and strength.

 

[Grandpa]

No.he said some f them were wrong, and they were to be anathema because they tried to add works to the requirment of being saved.. He even called them fools for believing they begin in the flesh (faith) but perfect in the spirit (works)

You've got that backwards, I think accidently.

He calls them fools for having started in the Spirit but then go back to the flesh (works) to be "perfect".

 

[ResidentAlien]

I think Jesus tells us who the saved are, and who are not, and why in the parable of the 4 soils.

Soil 1. Are the unsaved world. They heard, but utterly rejected the Gospel right off the bat.

Soil 2. Are your 1 John 2:19 people. The fact that they fell away proves they never had Jesus (the Root) to begin with.

Soil 3. The most difficult soil to grapple with. I believe they are saved, but arrive in eternity with nothing but Jesus as their Foundation, and are amongst the least in Heaven.

Soil 4. Are of course the saved who will rule and reign, along with other rewards, with Jesus.

This isn't very good for you case: 1) We can't tell for sure from 1 John 2:19 if the people John refers to ever were saved to begin with. You assume they never had Jesus; but they could have had Him and then rejected Him and fell into apostasy. We simply don't know. 2) The parable of the sower actually makes a better case for those in 1 John 2:19 having been saved at one point. They received the word with joy; they sprang up and had life but didn't endure. They didn't have the same depth of soil as the others in 1 John 2:19, who reamained steadfast.

The first three are actually examples of people who probably won't be in heaven. Only the last group will be.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Matthew 13:9

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You've got that backwards, I think accidently.

He calls them fools for having started in the Spirit but then go back to the flesh (works) to be "perfect".

lol.. Proof that I am not perfect.. My dislexia strikes again..

thank you for correcting me

 

[Grandpa]

The first three are actually examples of people who probably won't be in heaven. Only the last group will be.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Matthew 13:9

Agreed.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This isn't very good for you case: 1) We can't tell for sure from 1 John 2:19 if the people John refers to ever were saved to begin with. You assume they never had Jesus; but they could have had Him and then rejected Him and fell into apostasy. We simply don't know. 2) The parable of the sower actually makes a better case for those in 1 John 2:19 having been saved at one point. They received the word with joy; they sprang up and had life but didn't endure. They didn't have the same depth of soil as the others in 1 John 2:19, who reamained steadfast.

The first three are actually examples of people who probably won't be in heaven. Only the last group will be.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Matthew 13:9

If we look at it, we see there is a huge difference between the first 3 and the last group

the 1st three had no root. They were never rooted in christ

The last group had a root. And through christ produced at least some fruit..

 

[Grandpa]

If we look at it, we see there is a huge difference between the first 3 and the last group

the 1st three had no root. They were never rooted in christ

The last group had a root. And through christ produced at least some fruit..

I think we can see the soil as conditions of the Heart.

The first 3 conditions are Stony Heart conditions. Not good enough for growing good Fruit.

The 4th soil condition is a Good Heart condition. The only condition good enough for growing good fruit.


Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.