Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Here's a thought: if Judas was never justified, would the Lord have given him Communion along with the other Apostles. Imo, it is possible that, because he took Communion badly, with malice, deliberate sin and intention to murder Christ in his heart, therefore, that Satan entered him as it says, and he fell from Grace. The other Apostles received the Lord. But Judas received Satan because he wanted to betray and murder Christ, and took Communion with that malicious intent.

Earlier, in the discussion, it was said of the OT Just in Moses' time, that because God gave them manna, most probably they were justified. A similar possibility is likely here, though we will learn for sure only when we go to Heaven.

"Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him." (Jn 13:26-27)

The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 that those who take Communion badly with intention to sin do this unto damnation, another sign that those once justified (such as those who receive Communion) can sin unto damnation, sadly.

1 Corinthians 11:

"26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

Most probably, this is what Judas did. May God have Mercy on us all, and bring us safely to Eternal Life in Heaven. Amen.

God Bless.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Hi EG, just saw your post.

Am going to bed now, as it's late here. Will read and respond to your reply later. Good Night and God Bless.

 

[Runningman]

Here's a thought: if Judas was never justified, would the Lord have given him Communion along with the other Apostles. Imo, it is possible that, because he took Communion badly, with malice, deliberate sin and intention to murder Christ in his heart, therefore, that Satan entered him as it says, and he fell from Grace. The other Apostles received the Lord. But Judas received Satan because he wanted to betray and murder Christ, and took Communion with that malicious intent.

Earlier, in the discussion, it was said of the OT Just in Moses' time, that because God gave them manna, most probably they were justified. A similar possibility is likely here, though we will learn for sure only when we go to Heaven.

"Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him." (Jn 13:26-27)

The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 that those who take Communion badly with intention to sin do this unto damnation, another sign that those once justified (such as those who receive Communion) can sin unto damnation, sadly.

1 Corinthians 11:

"26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

Most probably, this is what Judas did. May God have Mercy on us all, and bring us safely to Eternal Life in Heaven. Amen.

God Bless.

I think many people will be surprised who they see in heaven. Judas was guaranteed a place.

Matthew 19
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

 

[PennEd]

If we look at it, we see there is a huge difference between the first 3 and the last group

the 1st three had no root. They were never rooted in christ

The last group had a root. And through christ produced at least some fruit..

I don’t see in the text that the third soil has no Root.

It specifically says soil 2 had no Root.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I think many people will be surprised who they see in heaven. Judas was guaranteed a place.

The "son of perdition"???

Matthew 19
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

At "the renewal of all things", the names of the apostles on the 12 foundations of the NJ will be Paul, the GREATEST apostle of all.

Judas went where he belonged. So said Peter. Acts 1:25

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I don’t see in the text that the third soil has no Root.

It specifically says soil 2 had no Root.

the weeds suffocated it before it had a chance to grow root.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I think many people will be surprised who they see in heaven. Judas was guaranteed a place.

Matthew 19
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Judas? Whome jesus called an unbeliever and betrayer. The thief who stole from them the whole time he was with them. the betrayer of them all? the son of perdition?

no. Judas was never saved, he was chosen for one reason. To deny Christ.

 

[Runningman]

The "son of perdition"???


At "the renewal of all things", the names of the apostles on the 12 foundations of the NJ will be Paul, the GREATEST apostle of all.

Judas went where he belonged. So said Peter. Acts 1:25

That’s not what Jesus said so I’m with Christ. You’re free to follow whoever, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Here's a thought: if Judas was never justified, would the Lord have given him Communion along with the other Apostles. Imo, it is possible that, because he took Communion badly, with malice, deliberate sin and intention to murder Christ in his heart, therefore, that Satan entered him as it says, and he fell from Grace. The other Apostles received the Lord. But Judas received Satan because he wanted to betray and murder Christ, and took Communion with that malicious intent.

Earlier, in the discussion, it was said of the OT Just in Moses' time, that because God gave them manna, most probably they were justified. A similar possibility is likely here, though we will learn for sure only when we go to Heaven.

"Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him." (Jn 13:26-27)

The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 that those who take Communion badly with intention to sin do this unto damnation, another sign that those once justified (such as those who receive Communion) can sin unto damnation, sadly.

1 Corinthians 11:

"26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

Most probably, this is what Judas did. May God have Mercy on us all, and bring us safely to Eternal Life in Heaven. Amen.

God Bless.

Judas did not believe. Like many unbelievers in the church who take communion, yet were never born again.

 

[cv5]

The answer is no. Peter would not have went to hell. Because peter had eternal security.

Jesus KNEW peter was going to deny him
He also KNEW hw would lead his church,
he also KNEW he would die a martyr's death on the cross.

Absolutely correct

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Hi EG, just saw your post.

Am going to bed now, as it's late here. Will read and respond to your reply later. Good Night and God Bless.

sleep well!

 

[cv5]

I think many people will be surprised who they see in heaven. Judas was guaranteed a place.

Good grief man are you ever right about anything?

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Peter deliberately sinned. out of fear, He lacked faith in God at that time and for fear if his life denied his savior

The answer is no. Peter would not have went to hell. Because peter had eternal security.

Jesus KNEW peter was going to deny him
He also KNEW hw would lead his church,
he also KNEW he would die a martyr's death on the cross.

Jesus does not make mistakes and save people knowing they will fall away.

Jesus also KNEW Judas did not believe, he told us this in John 6.. long before Judas sin of betrayal

Jesus also does not make mistakes and save people he knows do not have true faith

Thats why Jesus can save completely and does, that which is lost with no mistakes. Because he knows.

People who claim salvation can be lost do not understand Gods knowledge.

Ok, changed my mind, will stay up a little longer. Tomorrow's Saturday after all.

EG,

This statement seems to contradict itself: "Peter deliberately sinned. out of fear, He lacked faith in God at that time and for fear if his life denied his savior

The answer is no. Peter would not have went to hell. Because peter had eternal security."

Peter sinned out of fear, agreed. But if he lacked faith in God, as you said, then how could he have had salvation, let alone eternal security? I have bolded the two parts above in your statement I find confusing. Please clarify.

Every one agrees that Jesus is the Author and Perfecter of our Faith, and thus of our Salvation. Here, we are asking, what happens to those who fall away from Faith. The passage I showed earlier suggests they are lost.

Here's the Passage Again: "Take Up the Cross and Follow Him
24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works"

As for Peter, most probably he did not lose faith, and thus remained saved (justified), but only sinned out of fear. Internally, he always believed, but externally, he was afraid of persecution on that dark night of trials/tribulation/persecution.

God Bless.

 

[PennEd]

the weeds suffocated it before it had a chance to grow root.

I’ve read it several times. Nowhere does it say they didn’t have Root..

They had no fruit, and were themselves choked out. But that doesn’t mean they didn’t have a Root.

I’ve had plants myself that grew and had roots, but eventually got choked out and died because I’m a terrible gardener.

 

[Runningman]

Judas? Whome jesus called an unbeliever and betrayer. The thief who stole from them the whole time he was with them. the betrayer of them all? the son of perdition?

no. Judas was never saved, he was chosen for one reason. To deny Christ.

Jesus never called Judas an unbeliever, He called Judas a betrayer and a devil. The unbelievers were those who turned back and no longer followed Him. Judas kept following Jesus. Peter also confirmed that he and the other 11 were believers. See for yourself below.

John 6
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
70Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

 

[ResidentAlien]

No plant springs up without a root. The root is the first thing that develops. The plants withered and died not because they had no root, but because they had no depth of soil for the root to grow down into. A plant requires depth of soil so it can go down deep and get water. The plants in the parable withered and were scorched because they couldn't get water.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

I think many people will be surprised who they see in heaven. Judas was guaranteed a place.

Matthew 19
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

I think that was a Conditional Promise and favors Conditional Security. As FG also said, possibly, it was Matthias, and more probably, it was the Apostle Paul who finally got that place which Judas sinned and fell and lost for himself.

God Bless.

 

[PennEd]

That’s not what Jesus said so I’m with Christ. You’re free to follow whoever, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

Just bizarre that you think Judas is in Heaven.


Matthew 26:24

New King James Version

24 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

 

[Runningman]

I think that was a Conditional Promise and favors Conditional Security. As FG also said, possibly, it was Matthias, and more probably, it was the Apostle Paul who finally got that place which Judas sinned and fell and lost for himself.

God Bless.

I don’t think so. The only unforgivable sin Jesus mentioned was blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It doesn’t appear Judas ever did that as far as the New Testament says.

 

[PennEd]

No plant springs up without a root. The root is the first thing that develops. The plants withered and died not because they had no root, but because they had no depth of soil for the root to grow down into. A plant requires depth of soil so it can go down deep and get water. The plants in the parable withered and were scorched because they couldn't get water.

Yeah. The problem with that is Jesus said they had no Root.