Once Saved Always saved....Read this
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[h=1]Matthew 18:21-35[/h][h=3]Parable of the Unforgiving Debtor[/h]21 Then Peter came to him and asked, “Lord, how often should I forgive someone[a] who sins against me? Seven times?”
22 “No, not seven times,” Jesus replied, “but seventy times seven![b]
23 “Therefore, the Kingdom of Heaven can be compared to a king who decided to bring his accounts up to date with servants who had borrowed money from him. 24 In the process, one of his debtors was brought in who owed him millions of dollars.[c] 25 He couldn’t pay, so his master ordered that he be sold—along with his wife, his children, and everything he owned—to pay the debt.
26 “But the man fell down before his master and begged him, ‘Please, be patient with me, and I will pay it all.’ 27 Then his master was filled with pity for him, and he released him and forgave his debt.
28 “But when the man left the king, he went to a fellow servant who owed him a few thousand dollars.[d] He grabbed him by the throat and demanded instant payment.
29 “His fellow servant fell down before him and begged for a little more time. ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it,’ he pleaded. 30 But his creditor wouldn’t wait. He had the man arrested and put in prison until the debt could be paid in full.
31 “When some of the other servants saw this, they were very upset. They went to the king and told him everything that had happened.32 Then the king called in the man he had forgiven and said, ‘You evil servant! I forgave you that tremendous debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Shouldn’t you have mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had mercy on you?’ 34 Then the angry king sent the man to prison to be tortured until he had paid his entire debt.
35 “That’s what my heavenly Father will do to you if you refuse to forgive your brothers and sisters[e] from your heart.”
22 “No, not seven times,” Jesus replied, “but seventy times seven![b]
23 “Therefore, the Kingdom of Heaven can be compared to a king who decided to bring his accounts up to date with servants who had borrowed money from him. 24 In the process, one of his debtors was brought in who owed him millions of dollars.[c] 25 He couldn’t pay, so his master ordered that he be sold—along with his wife, his children, and everything he owned—to pay the debt.
26 “But the man fell down before his master and begged him, ‘Please, be patient with me, and I will pay it all.’ 27 Then his master was filled with pity for him, and he released him and forgave his debt.
28 “But when the man left the king, he went to a fellow servant who owed him a few thousand dollars.[d] He grabbed him by the throat and demanded instant payment.
29 “His fellow servant fell down before him and begged for a little more time. ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it,’ he pleaded. 30 But his creditor wouldn’t wait. He had the man arrested and put in prison until the debt could be paid in full.
31 “When some of the other servants saw this, they were very upset. They went to the king and told him everything that had happened.32 Then the king called in the man he had forgiven and said, ‘You evil servant! I forgave you that tremendous debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Shouldn’t you have mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had mercy on you?’ 34 Then the angry king sent the man to prison to be tortured until he had paid his entire debt.
35 “That’s what my heavenly Father will do to you if you refuse to forgive your brothers and sisters[e] from your heart.”
That is absolutely ridiculous.
You quit the conversation because you got backed into a theological corner. You claimed, and continue to claim, that one has to cease from all sinning or lose their salvation.
1 John 3:9 Goes one step farther and says one who is born of God can not sin - period.
You, however, still sin. every single day. Just like everyone else. Yet, you place yourself up on a pedestal and judge the conduct of others while doing the very same things they are.
Which makes you nothing but a hypocrite.
Wow. That is so off base it's not even in the ballpark anymore.
The verse says exactly what it means. Just because you don't accept that it's means exactly what it says, doesn't make the verse mean what you want.
John is talking about the two natures. One, the flesh, with it's sin and sinful desires, verses the new nature we have via Christ, which does not sin, nor can sin. Our salvation, and how we are judged, is based on our new nature in Christ. That's why we can never lose our salvation, nor can we ever come into condemnation again, despite the fact the old nature still sins, and desires to do nothing but.
And once again, to answer the charge that you salvation-by-works people level against us: We do NOT advocate living a sinful lifestyle simply because we cannot lose our salvation. God will chastise any wayward child - as a good Father does - because we are to live a life that is pleasing to God.
BUT, yet again, how we live our lives has no bearing on whether or not we keep our salvation. That matter was settled at the cross. Our salvation is based entirely on the finished work of Jesus. We are holy, righteous, and sinless because that is what He is, and what His nature in us proclaims. It's imputed, imputed, imputed.
Jesus will not lose a single Christian based on how that Christian lives. If one is an actual born-again believer, they are as much assured of heaven as God will go on existing.
You quit the conversation because you got backed into a theological corner. You claimed, and continue to claim, that one has to cease from all sinning or lose their salvation.
1 John 3:9 Goes one step farther and says one who is born of God can not sin - period.
You, however, still sin. every single day. Just like everyone else. Yet, you place yourself up on a pedestal and judge the conduct of others while doing the very same things they are.
Which makes you nothing but a hypocrite.
Wow. That is so off base it's not even in the ballpark anymore.
The verse says exactly what it means. Just because you don't accept that it's means exactly what it says, doesn't make the verse mean what you want.
John is talking about the two natures. One, the flesh, with it's sin and sinful desires, verses the new nature we have via Christ, which does not sin, nor can sin. Our salvation, and how we are judged, is based on our new nature in Christ. That's why we can never lose our salvation, nor can we ever come into condemnation again, despite the fact the old nature still sins, and desires to do nothing but.
And once again, to answer the charge that you salvation-by-works people level against us: We do NOT advocate living a sinful lifestyle simply because we cannot lose our salvation. God will chastise any wayward child - as a good Father does - because we are to live a life that is pleasing to God.
BUT, yet again, how we live our lives has no bearing on whether or not we keep our salvation. That matter was settled at the cross. Our salvation is based entirely on the finished work of Jesus. We are holy, righteous, and sinless because that is what He is, and what His nature in us proclaims. It's imputed, imputed, imputed.
Jesus will not lose a single Christian based on how that Christian lives. If one is an actual born-again believer, they are as much assured of heaven as God will go on existing.
P
So please post your proof, because to make a false statement would make you a liar. We all know you wouldn't lie..oh, wait.....you said you still sin, so never mind.
Just because you choose to sin everyday does not mean that everyone does. Christ never told us to do something that was impossible for us to do. And He told us to sin no more, which makes sinning after being saved a choice.
You really need to make better life choices.
Just because you choose to sin everyday does not mean that everyone does. Christ never told us to do something that was impossible for us to do. And He told us to sin no more, which makes sinning after being saved a choice.
You really need to make better life choices.
Well I had the best teacher
as i have said before I have no intention of proving my views and beliefs and doctrines correct, I don't know the main reason and purpose others come to debate but the sword I bear is a blade to encourage to build and uplift to deepen the bonds between God and others it was never for myself.
as i have said before I have no intention of proving my views and beliefs and doctrines correct, I don't know the main reason and purpose others come to debate but the sword I bear is a blade to encourage to build and uplift to deepen the bonds between God and others it was never for myself.
Vigorously? I don't thats quite right the definition of vigorously doesn't match up with that we are told to do.
Giving correction is good however I wouldn't confuse arguing and speaking in a rude manner with correction, correction is teaching with intent to help and if do0ne so in the right way it shines humbleness love and can still a stormy heart.
For the most part i have not seen correction here what I have seen is everyone lashing out attacking each other and many hiding behind the loving correction. But if it's really loving correction it would still the waters not stir it up
Giving correction is good however I wouldn't confuse arguing and speaking in a rude manner with correction, correction is teaching with intent to help and if do0ne so in the right way it shines humbleness love and can still a stormy heart.
For the most part i have not seen correction here what I have seen is everyone lashing out attacking each other and many hiding behind the loving correction. But if it's really loving correction it would still the waters not stir it up
Ah that's you meant, no I don't I never like to assume anything as things are hardly ever what they appear. I know there are tares among the wheat here but that is all the more reason to shine the love and heart of God isn't it? What good does it do to point out the tares and debate with them and try to prove them wrong when the only thing that will make them become wheat is the heart of God.
Again a humble and loving heart has more power than a heart that proves itself right. Personally I am here encourage uplift and to deepen the bond and love between God and both the wheat and tares
Again a humble and loving heart has more power than a heart that proves itself right. Personally I am here encourage uplift and to deepen the bond and love between God and both the wheat and tares
Yes Sister there are some seeming paradoxes that are so because they have not yet been revealed to us. I'd like to talk about this one that seems to be causing confusion. But 1st remember the Bereans and their advice that we should accept the Word willingly but search the Scriptures to see if what you hear is so.
1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God," (NKJV).
The Bible also says in Ezekiel that the SOUL that sins shall die.
It doesn't say the FLESH that sins shall die. Because the flesh is ALREADY dead. NO FLESH will be justified.
When we accept Christ as our Savior we are new creation in our inner man. Yet we still inhabit our disgusting, dead flesh.
The new creation in us CANNOT sin. We have the Holy Spirit indwelling us. Unfortunately we can quell and grieve the Holy Spirit.
There are no more miserable people than Christians who sin and grieve the Holy Spirit. I know from VERY painful experience the truth of that. The most dangerous position though is when you are no longer bothered by any sin you committ.THAT is a healthy fear to have. I believe the Lord will always draw His Children out of the sewer back to Him. As I've said that is usually painful and I cannot stress enough that you DON'T want to go that route as a Christian.
So all this means to me is that Salvation through Jesus Christ has the Ps. 1. I HAVE BEEN saved from the PENALTY of my sin. 2. I AM being saved from the POWER of sin through the process of Sanctification. 3. I WILL BE saved from the PRESENCE of sin when Jesus raises me and gives me my incorruptible body.
This is why thinking that I have to, or even could ACHIEVE or MAINTAIN my salvation is so dangerous. It negates what Jesus has DONE for us.
I used to think like HRFTD. But I failed in so many ways. I had virtually ZERO fruit, and much of the bad stuff listed in 1 Corinthians 6 I engaged in even though I hated it.
The Lord has shown me how wrong and stubborn I was. I can't tell you how grateful I am for his discipline and instruction.
When I look at my life now, and the fruit, especially love, that I have. It's hard to believe that I could ever have behaved the way I did. That is all the proof I need that Grace through Faith is the only true Gospel. And I pray and wish that anyone else trapped in the Grace + works,(I know they won't call it that) will experience the joy of the knowledge of that.
Peace Grace and Love to you in Jesus name. Amen
1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God," (NKJV).
The Bible also says in Ezekiel that the SOUL that sins shall die.
It doesn't say the FLESH that sins shall die. Because the flesh is ALREADY dead. NO FLESH will be justified.
When we accept Christ as our Savior we are new creation in our inner man. Yet we still inhabit our disgusting, dead flesh.
The new creation in us CANNOT sin. We have the Holy Spirit indwelling us. Unfortunately we can quell and grieve the Holy Spirit.
There are no more miserable people than Christians who sin and grieve the Holy Spirit. I know from VERY painful experience the truth of that. The most dangerous position though is when you are no longer bothered by any sin you committ.THAT is a healthy fear to have. I believe the Lord will always draw His Children out of the sewer back to Him. As I've said that is usually painful and I cannot stress enough that you DON'T want to go that route as a Christian.
So all this means to me is that Salvation through Jesus Christ has the Ps. 1. I HAVE BEEN saved from the PENALTY of my sin. 2. I AM being saved from the POWER of sin through the process of Sanctification. 3. I WILL BE saved from the PRESENCE of sin when Jesus raises me and gives me my incorruptible body.
This is why thinking that I have to, or even could ACHIEVE or MAINTAIN my salvation is so dangerous. It negates what Jesus has DONE for us.
I used to think like HRFTD. But I failed in so many ways. I had virtually ZERO fruit, and much of the bad stuff listed in 1 Corinthians 6 I engaged in even though I hated it.
The Lord has shown me how wrong and stubborn I was. I can't tell you how grateful I am for his discipline and instruction.
When I look at my life now, and the fruit, especially love, that I have. It's hard to believe that I could ever have behaved the way I did. That is all the proof I need that Grace through Faith is the only true Gospel. And I pray and wish that anyone else trapped in the Grace + works,(I know they won't call it that) will experience the joy of the knowledge of that.
Peace Grace and Love to you in Jesus name. Amen