once saved always saved saved is a doctrine of the devil

Bookends · Sep 8, 2012

Then you render your eternal judgment upon that person, that is only God's responsibility. How do you know if God will call that person back into a loving relationship with him? If the person is truly saved, God will do just that. Or this person has a spurious faith. You are in danger here condemning a person, only God knows the heart, you can't look there and see what's going on! You're in Danger of playing God.

starfield said:

Good!, I agree!

starfield said:

Are you saved? Do you sin? Do you claim you never sin? Do you think it's possible to sin even without knowing it? 1 John 1:10 says those who say that have no sin are lairs.

starfield said:

A spurious believer, Or if not, God will chastise Him until he is led to a rightful relationship with the Father.
The Discipline of God

Hebrews 12:3-11 (NKJV)

3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:
“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; (if we don't have sin after we are saved, then there would be no reason for the Lord to chase His Children)(THINK PEOPLE)
6For whom the Lord loves He chastens,(Is the Lord going to chasten a person living perfectly)
And scourges every son whom He receives.” (If we come perfect little Christians then he scourges us for nothing)(We we are saved and we are a new creature, without sin, there is not need for any of this).

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. (those who say they are without sin and aren't chastised. If you have no sin, you don't need chastising. If you do have sin, and don't recognize a chastising, then you are a spurious believer. You are not in the faith).

9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (AMEN)

starfield said:

Which means if we fall and repent He will pick us up again!!! If we are a true child of God. 1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all."

mule · Sep 8, 2012

okay I have to put in my two cents on this subject.

Jesus taught many parables

two that I can think of address this.

Luke 8: 5-8
it is about the sower and the seed some fell by the way side. it was devoured and some fell on rock it withered away. and some in thorns that choked it.
and others fell on good ground and sprang up,

each one was sown -- we are the ground and the seed is the word. notice some started to grow but they withered away and got choked out. people who came to Jesus but fell away.

the other is

Matthew 22: 2-14
about the king who makes a wedding for his son - calls his friends they won't come call strangers and they enter the wedding but one is not in a wedding garment and is taken out bound hand and foot cast into outer darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth.

God is the king Jesus is the son Israel is the friend we are the strangers. looks like the strangers needs to be properly dressed -- perhaps in new white garments? *_*

seek God and He will never leave you nor forsake you
if you return to your old ways paul says it is better a noose were tied around your neck and you were thrown into the ocean.

Tan · Sep 8, 2012

Red33 said:

Tan said:

Show me what you understand by using the scriptures and verses from the Bible, so I can be clear on what you understand.

Katy-follower · Sep 8, 2012

Dude653 said:

Those who are genuinely saved no longer desire to live disobediently (we hate sin). Once you become a new creature in Christ you no longer have the same worldly desires you used to. You're changed. You do not have the attitude of a person that sees this as a way to sin because you're saved...only the unsaved would do this, those that say a prayer without meaning it and think they are saved and go out committing any crime they want, because they think they can get away with it... is this a good fruit that shows the person was really saved?

We are not sinless, otherwise we would be little Gods and this is not biblical.

Salvation is not earnt so it cannot be lost.

"I will never leave you nor forsake you" (Hebrews 13:5)

It's worrying if a person did not feel eternally secure at the moment they were saved. Satan would want everyone to worry about the state of their salvation. Instead of feeling secure in Christ it can affect a person's walk. "There is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus" - you cannot be unwashed with the blood, un-born again, Christ does not dump all those sins back on you that you were cleansed and forgiven of. The Holy Spirit doesn't then leave you. It doesn't make sense. Once sealed always sealed. "Nothing can pluck you from His hand"

Satan wants to distract us so we don't do the work we've been given. He cannot take our salvation, but he can distract us. The only way to stop us from spreading the good news is to distract us...

I backslid for many years. I've met a lot of people in my life and during those years there were 2 in particular that I remember. Both died of cancer. I was not there to share the good news of Jesus with them because I was a backslider since the age off 11 (what a waste). Still to this day I look back with some regret. One was a kind hearted individual that was not saved and had so many problems in his life but remained cheerful regardless. The other was somewhat of an enemy to me in my past life, tried to affect my career without a legitimate reason. I came back to God around the time he had died and I reached out to his wife by email.

I keep thinking (even to this day) - if only I had not backslid during that time, I could've shared the good news with them at some point in their life. Others have provided comforting words to me, some saying that they believe everyone will have heard the news before they die. I'm not sure if that's biblical, but maybe the truth was given to them through someone else? Also, I don't recall the first one knowing Jesus before he died and the 2nd was an atheist, but you never know when someone's on their death bed.

Sorry for rambling, just wanted to share that.

So if you don't have eternal security through the blood of Jesus then what is the good news you're preaching to others?

mule · Sep 8, 2012

I know a man from chat who spent 30 yrs. in the church. who believed and trusted God who accepted Jesus as His saviour. and then came to the conclusion it was all false and there is no God -- is this not blaspheme of the Holy Ghost? He is fully convinced there is no God.

is this once saved always saved?

chesser · Sep 8, 2012

Katy-follower said:

so, were adam and eve(before the fall) gods?

Tan · Sep 8, 2012

Blain said:

Lets read something that Jesus said in Matthew 19: 16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Keeping the commandment also includes the sabbath on the seventh day of the week. Jesus said with his own mouth how enter into life...keep the commandments (law). What is the oppsite of not keeping the law, not entering into life. If you don't enter into life you enter into death. Paul said in Romans 6: 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

And Jesus just us how enter into life, see how the Bible connects

Tan · Sep 8, 2012

Bookends said:

The reward is to great not to try. Not all of israel disobeyed. Errors are going to happen. Live your life righteously just like you would or you do performing a job. We go to work, we learn our job, we do the best we can, and we get paid. Errors are going to happen. Follow Jesus and you can't go wrong. Jesus say repent...then repent..No Excuses Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. If Jesus say get baptize in his name, then do it...No Excuese. "And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16). If Jesus say keep the commandments, then you start learning to keep them...No Excuses..Jesus said in Matthew 19: 16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

People go all over the world to learn how make money, but all of a sudden people make so many excuses when it comes to the word of God (Jesus). These are not that hard to do wants your mind is made up.

Tan · Sep 8, 2012

Bookends said:

I don't agree that the 10 Commandmenst was made to be broken. But there a punishment for those who break it or trangress against the law!

Blain · Sep 8, 2012

Tan said:

....... again why is there an argument do people like you come to a place like this because you want argue about things that shouldn't even be argued about? Do you think you will be saved by knowing scripture and then throwing it at people? Or is faith knowing, loving and trusting god? sure reading the bible is always good but if you study it so much you forget the whole reason you accepted christ in the first place you are no better than the pharasees. I don't really know how to spell that LOL but take these words to heart, if this is what your faith is really like then there are four year old children who have more faith than you. we are to encourage each other not beat each other down trying to prove who is right. if you disagree with someone kindly explain you beleif and be done if the other person still doesn't beleive you then leave them alone. don't forget why you were saved getting back to the basics is good for all of us.

Blain · Sep 8, 2012

Blain said:

....... again why is there an argument do people like you come to a place like this because you want argue about things that shouldn't even be argued about? Do you think you will be saved by knowing scripture and then throwing it at people? Or is faith knowing, loving and trusting god? sure reading the bible is always good but if you study it so much you forget the whole reason you accepted christ in the first place you are no better than the pharasees. I don't really know how to spell that LOL but take these words to heart, if this is what your faith is really like then there are four year old children who have more faith than you. we are to encourage each other not beat each other down trying to prove who is right. if you disagree with someone kindly explain you beleif and be done if the other person still doesn't beleive you then leave them alone. don't forget why you were saved getting back to the basics is good for all of us.

I messed up on this one there should only be one here

feedm3 · Sep 8, 2012

Repeating passages that tells us we will be condemned for sin, is not playing God. it is our responsibility to speak the truth. I do not set standards man must abide - God did - "if you love me keep my commands" - Jn 14:15.

Nor do I judge anyone with judgments God has not already judged - I Cor 1:10 "..be in the same mind and in the same judgment..." How can we do that? By using God's judgement to determine what is right and wrong.

This is using "righteous judgment" as we are commanded to do - Jn 7:34

Those that say we can still sin and God will allow it or bring us back are saying that we are expected to do the impossible, and that the passages below do not really mean what they say?

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil <-------Paul you dont really mean "sin not" all the time were not perfect right?

I Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God <-------John, by "he cannot sin" you must really mean cannot sin constantly, because we all sin - right?

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins <-----surely this does not mean what it says!

There are many more passages just like these. Would you ask Paul the same questions in your quote above when he was preaching these things if you were there?

Everytime one repeats these passages, other become angry and always start in on the "do you sin" , "who are you to judge", "are you perfect and never sin" as if the repeating of the passages cannot be done without the person thinking he/she is flawless and never sinned at all. That is not the case.

No one is sinless except for Christ. Yet this does not mean we can continue living in sin. There are always area's in which we can grow and do better, as in evangelizing, benevoloce etc. Yet this does not mean if I am not doing these things to my fullest ability everyday I am in sin, it means I need to grow more.

Yet unrepentant sins, are NOT forgiven. Heb 10:26 is about turning are backs on God and living in sin. We know were not perfect, and so does God, otherwise we would not need repentance. Yet he grants to us if we repent and confess our sins he will forgive us.

Yet repentance is not just a thought, it is an action of obedience. If one prays for forgiveness of a certain sin, and does not stop, he has not repented and cannot expect to be forgiven for that sin until he does. No where does the Bible teach Christ died for our unrepentant sins. Instead we are taught to repent or perish - Luke 13:3

Otherwise, anyone who sins will go to heaven, including practicing homsexuals as long as the believe. Do you think on judgment day God will accept homosexuals, yet we know he said liars, theifs and adulterers will not enter heaven. Does this only mean those who are not believers and commit these things?

Of course many will say, "he was never really saved". Another forced conclusion that is not found in scirpture. Was Simon the sorcer in Acts 8 saved when he believed and was baptized? What about after he sinned and was to to "repent of thy wickedness", what if he refused to do so? If he was never saved, why not? what in the context shows that, and what made his believing and baptism not valid?
I bet no one will answer that one:

God will chastise a christian living in sin. What if that Christian refuses to allow God's chastising to bring him back? Do you think God makes us come back? Of course not, he granted us freedom of choice, he want us to come back by our own willingness, he does not force us to love him.

Demas was not forced back to God by being chastised. He may have been chastised, but did he come back? I would not assume that from Paul's wording.

Heb 10:26 does not give us the idea of being forced back. Many here will say Heb 10:26 is speaking of the law, or another sacrifice, yet every time one says this cant explain what the passage means.

It never makes sense, and the implications they make in trying to explain it, ends up saying that animal sacrice is valid as long as we do not sin willfully. Or they say it only means "returning to the law of Moses" if though the words are "if we sin willfully" which includes all sin that goes unrepentant.

If all were perfect and never fell, or never committed a sin after becoming a Chistian, then there would be no need for chastising or repentance. Yet just because there are these things does NOT imply, nor say, that God forces us back through these things.

I know many will try the old "so your saying God fails at trying to bring us back, therefore he is not all powerful" wrong. I am saying WE FAIL BY NOT accepting God's help when he offered it, and therefore it wil be our fault if we refuse to repent.

Then we have "he will never cast out". Of course not. He will not cast you out, nor can anyone pull you away from him, except yourself.

If you choose to throw his grace back in His face, and you choose to return to a life of sin, then HE did not cast me out, I walked away from Him and have " have done despite unto the spirit of grace"(Heb 10:29) and "received the grace of God in vain" (II Cor 6:1).

God will bring us back IF we allow his word and chastisment do what its' supposed to. Just as the Corintians allowed paul's letter to lead them to Godly sorrow.
Yet if they would have refused his words, they would not have been lead to repentance that leads to salvation:

II Cor 7:8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. 9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death

Note* This was written to Christians who were already saved, yet walked away from God, so they needed a letter to convict them, which again lead them to salvation.
implication: if it lead them to salvation again, then what was their condition before the letter?

The Key when we sin is repetnacne. Not saying we can sin thinking I am going to sin now and repent later. That's all I am trying to tell faith only/OSAS people, if we are in sin, and refuse to repent, refuse to change when God chastise us, then we are in danger of losing our souls. The Bible warns this over and over.

To believe this, does not mean I believe I am sinless, if I was sinless I would not need the blood of Christ. Nor does this mean I believe I will never commit sin as long as live. It does mean if I do fall, I better repent, which means stop what is causing me to fall. Sin separtes us from God, it always has and always will. Isa 59:1,2; Jn 9:31.
Neither does it mean Christ failed if I choose to be lost, nor does it mean I dont trust in the work of Chirst. Actually it means we trust him more, because we believe his every word. And he shows not everyone how claims him as Lord will be saved _ Matt 7:21-f.

So many people want to twist Scriptures and think they sound honorable saying things like, "I know I am a sinner and I trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ which is able to save wretch like me, because I acknowledge I am a weak sinner and need him", thinking words like this sound humble and really fool God to what the real message is, "I dont have to quit all sin to go to heaven, Jesus did all the work so I dont have to". Sugar coat how they want, God knows the heart.

Then they make those who take what God says, and turn it into "you trust in yourself and not Christ" which is evil to say to anyone who believe Heb 5:9, Jn 3:36 (ASV), Heb 10:26, II Cor 6:1, etc. To trust Christ we must believe him. If we make up our own doctrines to appease our consciences while we remain in sin, then those are who do not trust Him, because they dont believe Him.

Hope fully we can look at the Bible closely and let God speak on these things, and not what the majority says. II Tim 2:15, 3:15-f.; Acts 17:11 - God expects us to study his word and determine whats right.

baldbilly · Sep 8, 2012

I spent many years fearing that I would lose my salvation, that I would do something that would cause the LORD to give me over to a reprobate mind,lived in fear of Hebrews scripture where it is written that if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth etc. etc. In Ephesians chapter 2 Paul writes that by grace we are saved through faith and THAT(being saved or "that" salvation) is the gift of GOD not of works so that no one can boast.This is the scripture that clarified for me that HE saved me and HE keeps me saved. The indescribable price paid by the LORD Jesus Christ is not a thing that the LORD is going to "drop" easily. I was bought with a great price but it cost ME nothing. It is a gift. I could only hold out an open empty hand and receive it. I could not earn or buy salvation and I cannot KEEP it by working hard enough to be absolutely perfect. If we could live without sin then Christ Jesus died for no reason, we could approach the LORD by ourselves. HE keeps us saved. Redeemed is the word; we are bought out of sin.IF you have been saved by grace through faith(believing HIM at HIS word since we have never seen or heard HIM) then you are kept until your body dies by HIM. Stop trying to "HOLD ONTO JESUS CHRIST!" Let HIM hold onto YOU! because HE is a great deal smarter and stronger and HOLIER than you or I! HE is NOT wanting to destroy us; HE is wanting to SAVE us! PRAY and READ the BIBLE and do the best you can to live a life pleasing to HIM all the while remembering that "in MANY things we offend all" and confess known sins to HIM to receive forgiveness every day! How many times a day will HE forgive us? Ask Peter. Seven times LORD? NO! Four hundred and ninety times a day at least! HE is gracious and merciful. HE is patient with us and sanctification, being set apart for HIM to use, is a lifetime process. Trust in, rely on, believe in HIM because HE is ABLE TO SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME. Now that's good preachin!!!!!

baldbilly · Sep 8, 2012

Here is another good passage about "doing the work of GOD". "What must we do that we might work the works of GOD?" The LORD Jesus Christ replied(remember HE is speaking to the children of Israel! in the Gospels MML and J) "THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD THAT YOU! BELIEVE! ON HIM(JESUS CHRIST) WHOM HE(GOD OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN) HAS SENT!!!!! Salvation is HIS gift to us and that gift is ETERNAL life! EVERLASTING life! When does eternal everlasting life come to an end? As soon as I commit a sin either known or unknown after rec eiving Christ Jesus as my savior? And what about HIM being LORD and savior and "if HE is not LORD of all then HE is not LORD at all? HE is LORD of the living and the dead! HE is LORD over SATAN,all the angels,all men all women all creation! HE is already LORD whether you believe in HIM or not! "For EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue shall confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD to the glory of GOD the Father forever! Does the confession of Jesus Christ as LORD by Satan,fallen angels, unsaved humans save them? NO IT DOES NOT! TODAY is the day of salvation. You don't need a LORD; you ALREADY HAVE ONE! HIS name is Jesus Christ! You need a SAVIOR! Trust in HIM; who HE is and what HE did for you in suffering,death burial and resurrection! HE paid it ALL! ALL means ALL! Believe in HIM and have eternal,not temporary but everlasting LIFE and HE IS THAT LIFE; it is IN HIM !!!!! AMEN!!!

feedm3 · Sep 9, 2012

baldbilly said:

Friend, what you said below contradicts what Heb 10:26 is saying, unless you explain them to harmonize. Maybe you do below, I haven't read it all yet.

Yes, Eph 2 is the sugar stick for this whole doctrine of OSAS. However.....if it was being interpreted wrong, adn it is not saying that there is NOTHING we MUST do, in reaction to God's commands to be saved, then it's worth looking at the verse, compared with other NT verses on the subject of obedience, and the consequences for NOT obeying:

Remember, the Bible does NOT contradict itself. Therefore if have passages that do, either we revise our understanding or we study until we get them.

Yet if we have to twist the meaning of plain passages to fit our interpretation of one passage, then we are not being honest with scripture.
A good rule of interpretation is to let the easy to understand passages interpret the harder ones, and not the other way around.

So concerning Eph 2, what exactly is Paul saying here:
Is he telling us salvation is a gift, so no obedience is required to receive salvation or it is not a gift but debt?
Consider this before you say, exactly!

Look at the context:
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: <------ implies that the Eph were now obedient:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) <----when "ye were" as he said "in times past ye walked...", notice the past tense, and notice the fact that those who disobey are children of wrath, does that ONLY apply to non Christians?

Also notice that while they were sinners, Christ died for them, that means all sinners, yet this does NOT mean that we continue AS sinners, that is not what grace teaches us - see Tit 2: for what grace teaches: obedience.

Lets keep reading:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith(faith does not mean belief alone) and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:<-----Paul is making it clear to them that nothing they did (past tense) deserved God to send Christ to die for them while they were sinners.

It was complete free and was a gift. Does this mean that nothing we can do (present tense) will cause us to receive/not receive this gift?

God sending Christ to die for there world was because of his mercy, his love, and his grace toward the world while we were all sinners.

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. <------No one has the right to say, Because I am so righteous God sent his son to die for me. No one can ever "boast" that, because none were righteous. This is all this context means. It has completely NOTHING to do with our obedience to God in order to receive salvation.
Obedience is the duty of all men, but especially the Christian. This message in this context is telling the EPH do not think they were so righteous God sent Christ to die for them, nowhere does it give the message obedience is not required. In fact if it did it would contradict much of the Bible, where we are told to obey or perish.

This is the same message God gave Israel when he brought them into the promise land, (another gift that was undeserving):
Due 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the Lord thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the Lord hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the Lord doth drive them out from before thee. 5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land:

What is God saying here, that NOTHING they did deserved God to give the land he freely gave them. Would this message imply that Israel did not have to obey God, and nothing they did would cause them to lose the land?

Can you imagine if false Israelite teachers took this passage and said "see, the possession of this land is a free gift, nothing we did deserved it, so that means nothing we do can cause us to lose it.
So if we sin against God, he will chastise us, but he will never take away the promise land..."

Sound silly? But that is exactly what men today are doing to Eph 2.

In fact, Israel lost the promise land due to disobedience, are you aware that Israel, the promise land, was a type, and the anti-type today is Israel/God's people = the promise land/heaven. These lessons teach us the physical type, that is countered by the spiritual anti-type.

Eph 2 is the exact same message God was telling Israel, nowhere should we ever get the idea we do not have to obey God to go to heaven because we did not deserve God sending his son to die, that should be all the more reason why we should obey him, and why he said, "if ye love me keep my commands".

Paul is not contradicting himself, he also wrote the Gal church and asked them "who bewitched you that you could not obey the truth?" Because that doctrine is a trick of false teachers.

Heb 5:9 he became the author of the eternal salvation unto all them that obey.

Please dont do as others and try to turn this into" Do you obey God at all times" "do you ever sin", that is a straw man argument and cheap ploy to try and destroy credibility, to destroy the message and is evil.

No I am not perfect, yes I fall like everyone else in area's, yet that is why God gives to us repentance. Not so we can abuse it as I will sin now and repent later, but if we fall, we repent (stop that sin) and pray and ask for forgiveness.

Yet if we choose not to repent, then we continue in that sin, we cannot expect forgiveness. We cannot think I can live in this sin, because Jesus died for sins, ALL sin, and knows I am not perfect, so it's okay that I struggle with this, but I am still saved.....that is wrong and goes against much scripture.

Heb 10:26, this passage is about unrepentant sins and should be taken very seriously.

Dont let other try to convince you it's only about returning to the law of Moses because that subject is discussed, read verses 26 and the 4 verse after that one, that argument is easily shot down

He says "if we SIN willfully" not if we "return to the law" then in the next verses he contrasts the penalty of those under the law, with the penalty of those that are Christians and turn there backs on grace.

Which he shows deserves a more severe punishment than those under the law of Moses:

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses 'law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace
He shows that unrepentant sin, after knowing the truth, is despising the spirit of grace.

Why is that? Because Grace does not teach us it's is okay to sin because Jesus died for it.

I have never heard any OSAS person explain these verses in any way that makes sense, the message is just too plain a child can understand it.

It is despite to the Spirit of grace, because what does grace teach us?
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world
Rom 6:1-f.:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein

Some try the "dont you know Romans was talking about those who tried to say that it was okay to sin because it glorified God more and showed his grace, therefore it's not saying we cant live in sin....."

I say to that AND??????

Does that change the message?
Does that change what answer to the question "shall we continue in sin that grace will abound?" - in other words that grace will cover our sins?

Again a clear and plain message.

Heb 5:9 and being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

This is why we have so many warnings, if we could never lose Grace,(salvation) then their would be no reason of Paul warning us not to receive the grace of God in VAIN:

II Cor 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain

Now before the usual hate mob attacks me with all kinds of lies and straw men arguments, read the post, dont start the "are you saying your sinless?" I covered that above, or the you dont trust in the finished work of Christ", because that is just a poor attempt to make it sound as if by me sinning it shows I trust Christ more knowing I can sin and not lose salvation - which is the same message Paul was dealing with in Rom 6, and answered that for you 2000 years ago.

We must not only believe, but have faith. And faith requires obedience or you cant say you have faith.

Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man

Obedience is NOT a work, it is our duty, and if any think we do have to do our duty to receive salvation, they have been mislead.
Many on here are mislead on purpose, because they like what sounds good, convenient, and others are simply in error as the Gal were tricked into thinking they did not have to obey the Gospel of our Lord:

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you

starfield · Sep 9, 2012

Bookends said:

Mr. Bookends, I wasn't rendering eternal judgment on anyone. I'm saying that a sinning Christian should not be satisfied living in that sinful state. They are deceiving themselves if they feel it is okay to live in sin while upholding the title "saved". Jesus will certainly call them back but it's their responsibility to follow to His calling and go back to their first love.

If the person has gone back to their past sins or even committing worst sins like the dog going back to his vomit, how are they still saved?
I am not going to sugar-coat the scriptures or lessen the gravity of sin because the bible says that the soul that sinneth it shall die. I am not going to tell someone living in sin that they are fine in that state because that would be cruelty on my part. There is an urgent call for salvation. I am not ashamed to preach the full truth of the gospel of Christ about His love and power to save the sinning soul.

Bookends said:

I am saved by His grace and I follow the footsteps of Christ. I commit my life to Him daily asking Him to uphold me that I do not yield to temptation and I trust in His power to keep me free from sin. I was once lost in sin but God used His servants to correct me and through His word exposed my sins, so I went to Him in prayer asking Him for forgiveness, blotting out my sins, and have mercy.

Some of y'all misinterpret the passage 1 John 1:10 to defend "living in sin while being saved". But the bible says "be ye holy for I am holy", "love not the world", "be not conformed to the world", "he who covers his sins shall not prosper". If you are justified in Christ while living in sin, how are you different from a nonbeliever?

Bookends said:

The Lord is not coming for a spurious or lukewarm church but for a spotless bride. It's high time we wake up and fight the good fight of faith. 1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
Titus 2:11-12- For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; so why do some say Christians can't stop sinning, that God has little to no expectation concerning our conduct after initial conversion, all He expects from us is to uphold the title "saved", and we only become holy in Heaven? To believe that is to say that Jesus died in vain. He died to make us clean in this present world. Holiness is not attained by human works; Christ has empowered us to live holy through His death and resurrection. We need to have faith in His power to break the chains of sin in our lives. Christians can stop sinning. Our responsibility is to want to be free from sin's captivity because we are instructed to "ask and ye shall receive".
Y'all will keep saying "holiness here on earth is impossible" until you truly understand the power of God. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not... I John 5:18

In regards to chastening, the Lord chastens Christians in sin because He loves them and wants to restore them. But He tests those that are faithful to strengthen them. Example, Job was tested not chastened.

Bookends said:

Absolutely! The door of grace and mercy is still open. A sinner can come to God in their unworthy and sinful state and He will do the thorough work of heart circumcision to remove the Adamic nature and give them a new heart that will be able to love Him and abhor evil. He will in no wise cast away those who come to Him with a penitent heart.

cenallen · Sep 9, 2012

Bookends said:

be careful now - you'll be accused of an overly-intellectualized religious spirit.

cenallen · Sep 9, 2012

starfield said:

oh really?
no, i'm sorry - you do no such thing.
what hubris.

if people would get real and stop inserting themselves into the Bible they MIGHT stop bringing Christ down to their level.

look up, my dear.

God manifest in the flesh did the Work.
you are a sinner saved by grace.
and that's all folks.

chip · Sep 9, 2012

If you do not accept the idea of once saved, always saved. Then you are believing that faith, to become a Christian, plus works then equals salvation? Since you now have to do something to maintain your salvation.....

starfield · Sep 9, 2012

cenallen said:

Suit yourself. If you want to dwell in Satan's captivity of sin, go ahead. As for me I will follow my Master's steps and do as He commands.

once saved always saved saved is a doctrine of the devil

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